Rutherford interview on Donnie & Dhali

[Chris12345]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What was the Benning quote about “planning things day to day”?  

Im wondering how long before JR politely steps aside to leave those he put in place to deal with Aquilini? 

1.5 years!

 

 

[PetterssonOrPeterson]

I have to say that it feels like Allvin is just a pawn, fill in as the GM and JR is the one running the show. 

 

 

[Smashian Kassian]

Kind of feel like some of these questions have been asked already.

 

I'd be curious what he thinks about OEL/Garland & how (in an ideal world) he sees them as part of the team going forward, if at all.

[NucknAsia]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

This thread really bugs me!

 

People are rehashing our rebuild and asking why we did not do it right.............

 

The truth is...............look in the mirror! You CDC and others, just wanted the quick rebuild....................it is not that simple!

 

Luongo, Markstrom, Player Name, Hank Sedin, Ryan Kessler, Kevin Bieska, Alex Edler, Daniel Sedin, Tanev, Toffoli, Beagle, Roussel are all in some way, associated with us trying to rebuild on the fly or some incarnation of it.

 

Look at those players look at the assets they alone would have brought to us if moved, not signed, or let to walk away.............it is ridiculous! 

 

Add Look! What started in 2012 and it is now the end of the 2022 season. Consider if we would have actually done if we would have started our rebuild, and actually attempted to sell off our players, not acquire or try to acquire patches................imagine, a distinct and deliberate tank.....one where you take future picks, and prospect that would not be ready for 5 years from draft day.

 

Look at the picks we had, and where we would have pick, if not artificially held up.  Imagine where we would have been if we actually did not win games against Stanley cup contenders that were resting players in the last 5  to 10 games................imagine picking in better positions and adding additional picks to our already improved picks. 

 

We look at LA, NYR, Ottawa, Colorado, and a few others that have actually let themselves free fall to the basement..................

 

We have a history of not doing the right thing, and it is predicated on the fact we have a hockey crazy owner, and hockey crazy fans, that love our players too much, and do not study the history of the NHL, nor understanding good business practices.

 

No, our past is our faults for not moving declining assets, before it was too late........aka walking away as a UFA................

 

Consider JT Miller, and the suggestion of trading him............I can tell you personally, that when I suggested trading him in the beginning, I was chastised for it, and told it was a foolish idea..........I stated my case and was laughed at............Same with the Sedins, same with Edler, etc.........

 

We bought Miller for a 1st round pick, and he has bettered his value since arriving, well now we are here, now what................sell him, we are not ready for him, we are not ready to compete, we are for all intense and purposes...............INCOMPLETE and any mid level 1st round picks historically take 3 to 5 years to make an impact, Notb so with top end top 1-7 not usually.

 

"IF" Jimmy Rutherford is going to do this right, he does a mini -tear down............and focus's on 3 to 5 years down the road (Hopefully 3 years)

 

IF Jimmy Rutherford can do that.................I am all for it

I agree with all of that but the one issue you're missing is the team with the twins was in a tough position to ask them to accept a rebuild with 5 good years left in them. 

 

Outside of that, i agree 1000% with what you've said. I love Miller but it makes the most sense to move him. and even potentially Bo.

[NucknAsia]

9 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Kind of feel like some of these questions have been asked already.

 

I'd be curious what he thinks about OEL/Garland & how (in an ideal world) he sees them as part of the team going forward, if at all.

I think OEL would be part of the team going forward if he was making 6.5 mil but the issue is the contract. On Garland, and probably most players other than QH,EP,VP,TD, it likely comes down to what comes back.

[Smashian Kassian]

Just now, NucknAsia said:

I think OEL would be part of the team going forward if he was making 6.5 mil but the issue is the contract. On Garland, and probably most players other than QH,EP,VP,TD, it likely comes down to what comes back.

 

He might be part of the team because of the contract. I heard Drance say they do value OEL highly as a player & person in their organization.

 

Haven't heard anything about Garland who actually had a very good season imo, seems they've considered him trade bait but I also think he makes our team alot better. I hope they don't unload him just to clear cap space & take what they can get. 

[NucknAsia]

3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

He might be part of the team because of the contract. I heard Drance say they do value OEL highly as a player & person in their organization.

 

Haven't heard anything about Garland who actually had a very good season imo, seems they've considered him trade bait but I also think he makes our team alot better. I hope they don't unload him just to clear cap space & take what they can get. 

Yes but I was responding to 'what management thinks about him"....so the point was, if the contract was lower they would have a different opinion and he would be good value. He's not good value currently, so therefore IF they could move him, they likely would.

 

I wasn't commenting on the ability to move said contract, which is why he is stuck here.

[Smashian Kassian]

3 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

Yes but I was responding to 'what management thinks about him"....so the point was, if the contract was lower they would have a different opinion and he would be good value. He's not good value currently, so therefore IF they could move him, they likely would.

 

I wasn't commenting on the ability to move said contract, which is why he is stuck here.

 

Yes fair enough. My mistake in twisting the context. 

[DSVII]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Gillis told our owner we needed to rebuild.  He got moved out.  

Linden sees that rebuilding is needed and tell Aquilini.  He gets moved out.

What are the odds our owner will allow JR to do a (go backwards) reset?

 

Listening to JR today and it sounds like he is wanting to reset while going forward.  Seems like once again we are trying to serve two purposes at the same time, and we know that just doesn’t work. But IMHAO, tjats what our owner wants and he sets the direction.  

Well it was rumored JR left Pittsburgh because the owners didn't want to give him autonomy. And aquilini flew over to his home to beg JR to take over which he did with conditions attached. One of these I'm hoping is full autonomy. 

 

 

[bigbadcanucks]

4 hours ago, King Heffy said:

How many of the high draft picks were used to acquire something useful?  Bottom line is Gillis proved himself to be grossly incompetent over his tenure here and the problems he caused are still evident.

If you think high picks are a first and a second, the answer is none. He gave a first to get Ballard, who came to the team needing hip surgery...bad move; he gave up a second to get Steve Bernier who didn't amount to much; he gave up a second to Minnesota to get two picks in the third; and a second for Derek Roy when the team needed a second line center because Kesler was out rehabbing from either a hip or shoulder surgery (can't remember which one).  You won't get argument from me about his piss poor performance at the draft table, and bungling of Luongo/Schneider goalie controversy, but I'd hardly call him incompetent. 

 

As far as Luongo contract, trade and early retirement, I wish I was a clairvoyant like you.  The thing that was wrong with the contract and trade were the arbitrary nature of the cap recapture penalty and Luongo's early retirement due to injury - two things that were out of anyone's control (maybe if Aquilini had some balls, he would have made waves with the Board of Governors). You must have magical powers to be able to see the future.

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by bigbadcanucks

[bigbadcanucks]

4 hours ago, Pears said:

So how come teams like Colorado are cup contenders year after year all the while having multiple top prospects in their system?

As others have noted, Colorado went through some dark days to where they are now. Same with Tampa Bay.  Same with Chicago.  Same with Pittsburgh.

 

Your posts crack me up because of the Dane Fox reference you have in your signature.  Makes me laugh every time.

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

If you think high picks are a first and a second, the answer is none. He gave a first to get Ballard, who came to the team needing hip surgery...bad move; he gave up a second to get Steve Bernier who didn't amount to much; he gave up a second to Minnesota to get two picks in the third; and a second for Derek Roy when the team needed a second line center because Kesler was out rehabbing from either a hip or shoulder surgery (can't remember which one).  You won't get argument from me about his piss poor performance at the draft table, and bungling of Luongo/Schneider goalie controversy, but I'd hardly call him incompetent. 

 

As far as Luongo contract, trade and early retirement, I wish I was a clairvoyant like you.  The thing that was wrong with the contract and trade were the arbitrary nature of the cap recapture penalty and Luongo's early retirement due to injury - two things that were out of anyone's control (maybe if Aquilini had some balls, he would have made waves with the Board of Governors). You must have magical powers to be able to see the future.

 

I called him an idiot at the time for it to.  There is zero excuse for exposing the team to that much long-term risk and a competent GM would have realized that.

[bigbadcanucks]

4 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Totally agree, I wish they would've rebuilt properly years ago, instead of trying to fast track playoffs. Canucks have almost no prospects because of it - and still no playoffs. I'm really glad JR is in charge and like he said, taking it step by step to get better. I'm patient if they're building a winner.   

If anything, JR and Allvin will be given the benefit of doubt and some runway to right the ship by ownership, media and fans. 

 

I may sound salty about Benning in my posts, but I think the Canucks prospect pool is better than everyone makes it out to be.  I'm pretty optimistic about the potential of players like Karlsson, Klimovich, Silovs, Dipietro, Woo, Rathbone, McDonough, Koskenvuo, Truscott and Jurmo. It's lacking in star power and quantity, but with proper development, maybe a couple will emerge as bonafide NHL players.  It's possible.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, NucknAsia said:

I agree with all of that but the one issue you're missing is the team with the twins was in a tough position to ask them to accept a rebuild with 5 good years left in them. 

 

Outside of that, i agree 1000% with what you've said. I love Miller but it makes the most sense to move him. and even potentially Bo.

Well, it takes a great GM to be able to pull the trigger and to be able to sell it to the owner and fans...................

 

The haul could have been incredible, and if all futures and prospects would have set us up for years.

 

Same as Edler, he had a lot of value..............but as Jimmy said, those days are gone......and we are dealing with the "now"

[MrCanuck94]

5 hours ago, Pears said:

Except that Gillis is the reason Benning had literally nothing to work with when he took over. I don’t like either but I’m just stating absolute facts. 

And that point would stand if Benning and Weisbrod could do anything competent the back half of the 8 years they were given.

 

Even with a bare cupboard, the fact that after 8 years they couldn't even build a borderline playoff team is pathetic, at the same time of transitioning us from the most progressive team in hockey under the Gillis/Gilman era to the least progressive.

 

I supported Benning during the start as well with the same point, he had a bare cupboard, but at some point, the incompetence became too obvious.

 

Gillis did what he had to to make us a winner and he wanted to rebuild after 2012 like mentioned in this thread already.

[King Loui]

5 hours ago, Pears said:

Except that Gillis is the reason Benning had literally nothing to work with when he took over. I don’t like either but I’m just stating absolute facts. 

 

6 hours ago, King Heffy said:

The way Gillis destroyed the franchise is the definition of impatience.

 

5 hours ago, King Heffy said:

How many of the high draft picks were used to acquire something useful?  Bottom line is Gillis proved himself to be grossly incompetent over his tenure here and the problems he caused are still evident.

Yeah wow 4 comments into this thread is enough for me.

 

It's Gillis's fault JB signed Player Name, Schaller, Gagner, Roussel, Beagle, Gudbranson, Sbisa, Holtby etc.. spent to the cap every year,  traded 2nds away for nothing, didn't draft us squat outside of the first round, traded Forsling for Clendenning, Resigned Virtanen etc

 

Gillis got us Martkstrom and Mathias for Luongo in the end.  That should be applauded.  Gillis was the most successful GM in team history and you guys are dumping on him and defending the guy who gave us our worst stretch in Canucks history lol.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, King Loui said:

 

 

Yeah wow 4 comments into this thread is enough for me.

 

It's Gillis's fault JB signed Player Name, Schaller, Gagner, Roussel, Beagle, Gudbranson, Sbisa, Holtby etc.. spent to the cap every year,  traded 2nds away for nothing, didn't draft us squat outside of the first round, traded Forsling for Clendenning, Resigned Virtanen etc

 

Gillis got us Martkstrom and Mathias for Luongo in the end.  That should be applauded.  Gillis was the most successful GM in team history and you guys are dumping on him and defending the guy who gave us our worst stretch in Canucks history lol.

Never said Benning did a good job, just that Gillis should have been fired on the spot for even considering retaining salary in the Luongo debacle.  He also brought in Ballard, Booth, Sturm, Ebbett, Roy, even wasting valuable assets for some of these plugs.  Benning did manage to get Demko and Hoglander outside the first round.  Bottom line is that neither were a good GM but Benning at least is qualified to work in a hockey related role.

 

[King Loui]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Never said Benning did a good job, just that Gillis should have been fired on the spot for even considering retaining salary in the Luongo debacle.  He also brought in Ballard, Booth, Sturm, Ebbett, Roy, even wasting valuable assets for some of these plugs.  Benning did manage to get Demko and Hoglander outside the first round.  Bottom line is that neither were a good GM but Benning at least is qualified to work in a hockey related role.

 

Higgins, Ehrhoff, Lapierre, success in the AHL, two presidents trophies and one win away from a Stanley cup, trading for our teams captain and Kassian for guys who aren't even in the league anymore but alright.  Benning could sell hotdogs in the concession so I agree with you there

[King Heffy]

13 minutes ago, King Loui said:

Higgins, Ehrhoff, Lapierre, success in the AHL, two presidents trophies and one win away from a Stanley cup, trading for our teams captain and Kassian for guys who aren't even in the league anymore but alright.  Benning could sell hotdogs in the concession so I agree with you there

Miller, and rebuilding the team for the tire fire that was left for Benning as opposed to being gifted a quality core by qualified management. I'm not even trying to argue that Benning did a good job, but Gillis was easily the worst GM in the history of the league and the damage he caused to the franchise still hasn't been fixed.  I wouldn't trust Gillis to run the fryer at KFC out of fear that he'd trade the secret recipe for a gummy worm.

[Pears]

46 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

And that point would stand if Benning and Weisbrod could do anything competent the back half of the 8 years they were given.

 

Even with a bare cupboard, the fact that after 8 years they couldn't even build a borderline playoff team is pathetic, at the same time of transitioning us from the most progressive team in hockey under the Gillis/Gilman era to the least progressive.

 

I supported Benning during the start as well with the same point, he had a bare cupboard, but at some point, the incompetence became too obvious.

 

Gillis did what he had to to make us a winner and he wanted to rebuild after 2012 like mentioned in this thread already.

As did I, but to say we weren’t a borderline playoff team for a few years like we were this year or in 2020 when we won a couple of rounds is being disingenuous at best. Let’s also not act like the Luongo penalty from the contract Gillis signed didn’t cost us at least one of Tanev or Toffoli.