IF I were King! (Proposals)

[smithers joe]

i don't care what they do as long as they shave our cap but 10, 15 mil for next year. can they do it? so many teams trying to move their big contracts out.  moving miller for marino saves us what 1 mil? at that rate we'ld have to make 15 trades.

[spook007]

14 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

@smithers joe, @JM_, @spook007, @IBatch, @Alflives, @DrJockitch, @Hairy Kneel, @Canuck Surfer 

 

So, I really did try to create a big strong young team, out of players I thought may be available, with the assets we have. It's truly almost impossible, to get any better than the proposal. I considered taking a stab at a top 5 pick, and it makes you suffer in other area's. I considered moving out Myers, but it truly starts to look like a card swap, as Joe suggests. I am not sure my values are all that bad, but it just gets looking like that card swap.

 

As for Myers, staying..........IMO, he is not playing all that bad, and truthfully, I do not see all that many improvements out there in free agency, once you consider, that you have to entice someone to take him. With what? Then is the guy you get, that much better?

 

PS................the other thing that keeps haunting me is, ................I do not think any of the picks, or replacements for Miller turn out as good as Miller, so I struggled with that.......

 

So as much as being King is fun...............I do not want to be JR!

Its always easier to sit on the sidelines and complain. The joy of being a fan...

Regarding the Myers case, I've always been supportive of Myers and still am. However the fact remain that with both QH and OEL in the team, we need some more defensive minded RHDs.
I'm not so worried about points, Tanev was never a massive point producer, but he would be perfect to cover for either. 
You did think outside the box, which is, what's needed, as in all likelyhood we won't be getting a top 5 pick back in any trade. 
Keep up the good fight Jan

[spook007]

14 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I get what you are saying Jim, the trouble is I like Lammikko alot, and I actually think Dickenson will rebound, and Lockwood provides a lot of energy, so that leaves Highmore, so sure.....move him out and get someone bigger............but make sure he is as fast as Highmore............

I'm not really sold on Lockwood yet for our 4th line, but you are spot on. Its between Lockwood and Highmore, who gets shifted. 

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Meant as discussion not criticism. 
I tend to think more that this is the opportunity to role the dice big if can leverage some assets into a very high pick. When we whiffed on two top 10 picks we really set the rebuild back and the overall roster has some really big warts. 
We have the beginnings of a group with Pettey Q, Demko, Bo and Podz but we need another elite scoring forward and high end right D prospect or three to grow this group together. We also just need a tonne more depth of prospects urgently. 
A sell off now may hurt the next couple of years but should put this team in a much better position to be looking at cup runs, not just fly byes of the playoffs. 
The current team is small, slow and lacks depth of both high end talent and prospects.  Not sure that is fixable in one off-season, a lot of damage was done the last 8 years. 

COL had the worst record in the NHL and by quite the margin, five years ago with less then 50 points ... we were second worse with 69 or something like that.    Now they are in the final.   Sakic faced heavy criticism for waiting so long to trade Duchene....Barrie went too (for Kadri)...and they drafted Makar.   Now they are in the final.   I doubt we'd have the same luck they had, and would have to trade more guys then that to teapot tank ... but it is a scenario that IF they decided to go there i wouldn't be too unhappy - 2023 is supposed to be the best draft since McDavid.    Building behind EP and co is one path.   Last years Bruce Canucks actually weren't all that bad.    Even Tampa Bay had its struggles and has some holes.   COL is the best team i've seen in the NHL since the early 2000's.    Quite remarkable given the cap era.    They have to beat the best - which right now is TB, probably the best team since Detroit of the late 2000's and maybe even better.  

 

If TB plays COL we are in for a treat.       Their only weakness is they don't have top five goaltending, top ten is even a little debatable.     There are only 10-12 true number one goalies in the league right now or at any given moment according to a recent GMs comments in NHL.com .... ones that can play 65 games a year and we have one - which i think means a COL type re-set is that much tougher to achieve and Allvin knows this.     What we can do however, is fill OJ, Miller's and Garland/OEL holes in our 21 and under group (OJ of course 24ish soon) via trading two of our vets.    And it could mean we don't make the playoffs ... but i think even doing that it we'd have decent odds.    And it's what the team needs to consider.   That's Miller and Brock IMO.   Horvat stays the same way Landeskog did.   Garland moves up on the first unit .... Brock won't get traded right away as well... because it's bad timing.   Could be Garland instead but doubt that.    Myers and Miller ... one for cap space to beef up our ability to maximize cap space and gain some picks (Dandanov in Vegas maybe?) ... 

 

There is a possibility no big trades happen either and the cap is just allowed to shed naturally - but Allvin would be shredded a little for saying this team "can't afford to lose UFAs for nothing"... Pearson is also a possibility.    In the end i'm pretty sure we won't come in with the same core we did last year - and yes Miller is a core player.  

Edited June 11, 2022 by IBatch

[DrJockitch]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

COL had the worst record in the NHL and by quite the margin, five years ago with less then 50 points ... we were second worse with 69 or something like that.    Now they are in the final.   Sakic faced heavy criticism for waiting so long to trade Duchene....Barrie went too (for Kadri)...and they drafted Makar.   Now they are in the final.   I doubt we'd have the same luck they had, and would have to trade more guys then that to teapot tank ... but it is a scenario that IF they decided to go there i wouldn't be too unhappy - 2023 is supposed to be the best draft since McDavid.    Building behind EP and co is one path.   Last years Bruce Canucks actually weren't all that bad.    Even Tampa Bay had its struggles and has some holes.   COL is the best team i've seen in the NHL since the early 2000's.    Quite remarkable given the cap era.    They have to beat the best - which right now is TB, probably the best team since Detroit of the late 2000's and maybe even better.  

 

If TB plays COL we are in for a treat.       Their only weakness is they don't have top five goaltending, top ten is even a little debatable.     There are only 10-12 true number one goalies in the league right now or at any given moment according to a recent GMs comments in NHL.com .... ones that can play 65 games a year and we have one - which i think means a COL type re-set is that much tougher to achieve and Allvin knows this.     What we can do however, is fill OJ, Miller's and Garland/OEL holes in our 21 and under group (OJ of course 24ish soon) via trading two of our vets.    And it could mean we don't make the playoffs ... but i think even doing that it we'd have decent odds.    And it's what the team needs to consider.   That's Miller and Brock IMO.   Horvat stays the same way Landeskog did.   Garland moves up on the first unit .... Brock won't get traded right away as well... because it's bad timing.   Could be Garland instead but doubt that.    Myers and Miller ... one for cap space to beef up our ability to maximize cap space and gain some picks (Dandanov in Vegas maybe?) ... 

 

There is a possibility no big trades happen either and the cap is just allowed to shed naturally - but Allvin would be shredded a little for saying this team "can't afford to lose UFAs for nothing"... Pearson is also a possibility.    In the end i'm pretty sure we won't come in with the same core we did last year - and yes Miller is a core player.  

Agree with pretty much all that. 
Miller is absolutely core now, but maybe not moving forward. Selling high on a guy after a monster year is also likely best way to plug the most holes at once. 
It really sounds like PA is doing due diligence, looking at all the options and setting limits on player value. 
We have seen massive structural changes to the Canucks since JR took over. He didn’t like a lot of what was here. It is unlikely he doesn’t feel similar about the team. 
I do expect significant changes this summer, or at least the start of them. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

Agree with pretty much all that. 
Miller is absolutely core now, but maybe not moving forward. Selling high on a guy after a monster year is also likely best way to plug the most holes at once. 
It really sounds like PA is doing due diligence, looking at all the options and setting limits on player value. 
We have seen massive structural changes to the Canucks since JR took over. He didn’t like a lot of what was here. It is unlikely he doesn’t feel similar about the team. 
I do expect significant changes this summer, or at least the start of them. 

Yes.   I'm not sure we will get a monster return, but saving the 3 million or so raise, plus whatever the return is could be very important.    Almost see the worst case a monster deal then a quick regression ... something in the middle is most likely - and i'm actually ok with one year of playoffs then watching him walk. That's also a good return.    Still get the cap back ... plus further evaluation. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by IBatch

[DrJockitch]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes.   I'm not sure we will get a monster return, but saving the 3 million or so raise, plus whatever the return is could be very important.    Almost see the worst case a monster deal then a quick regression ... something in the middle is most likely - and i'm actually ok with one year of playoffs then watching him walk. That's also a good return.    Still get the cap back ... plus further evaluation. 

I think losing that asset for one year run at scraping into the playoffs is a worst case scenario. 
The team really seems to be leaving all doors open and looking at all the options. 
‘Benning always seemed to get laser focused on one thing and would move heaven and earth to get there, assets be damned. He went after OEL for more than a year, a particularly bad year by OEL didn’t persuade him either.  It is nice to see a little less linear thinking. 

[Hairy Kneel]

20 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Meant as discussion not criticism. 
I tend to think more that this is the opportunity to role the dice big if can leverage some assets into a very high pick. When we whiffed on two top 10 picks we really set the rebuild back and the overall roster has some really big warts. 
We have the beginnings of a group with Pettey Q, Demko, Bo and Podz but we need another elite scoring forward and high end right D prospect or three to grow this group together. We also just need a tonne more depth of prospects urgently. 
A sell off now may hurt the next couple of years but should put this team in a much better position to be looking at cup runs, not just fly byes of the playoffs. 
The current team is small, slow and lacks depth of both high end talent and prospects.  Not sure that is fixable in one off-season, a lot of damage was done the last 8 years. 

I like that as a discussion part, we've never been 'lucky' in the draft so we are always behind the 8 ball to figure out ways to get a great trade. But I think Miller has that possibility.  After looking at the Copp and Tofu deals, I think we may have the makings of truly helping our team taking the next step. Adding a first rounder and a good player would help. Or adding a top 5 pick and a player would also help. And not relying on the 15 pick to be a game day regular for us this coming season. With the right coaching we now have a more realistic assessment of what we have going forward. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

I think losing that asset for one year run at scraping into the playoffs is a worst case scenario. 
The team really seems to be leaving all doors open and looking at all the options. 
‘Benning always seemed to get laser focused on one thing and would move heaven and earth to get there, assets be damned. He went after OEL for more than a year, a particularly bad year by OEL didn’t persuade him either.  It is nice to see a little less linear thinking. 

It's worse if we re-sign Miller and he turns into LE plus 2.0.   That to me is the worst case scenario.   Another year of Miller plus playoffs is also better then a bad trade (prospects could do nothing and could take back bad cap that makes it impossible to improve the team - aka a bad trade)...there are a lot worse cases then just playing Miller - enjoying his time here, and using his cap somewhere else later. Of course best case is a cup run lol but that's pie in the sky thinking.   So is expecting a massive return to a degree.   I expect it will be something in the middle. 

 

Garland wasn't a bad trade ... dumping that much cap was a little bit like getting a loan to pay off a credit card for sure - Garland filled a hole for sure that needed filling and OEL did too.   Where JB really messed up was his timing, and thinking we were good enough when clearly we are not.    Good enough for playoffs isn't contending, but will say a lot of coaches and GMs including "contenders" say the difference between a playoff and a lot of  non-playoff teams - and a contender and a playoff team is razor thin now.    So do see some reasoning behind getting to the playoffs as a first step to see how we do.    Vancouver's 90's teams we decent to good playoff teams.   LA won two cups as at best a mediocre regular season team ... both teams were better in the post season.   Peak Sedin teams were actually the opposite.   

Edited June 11, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

Its always easier to sit on the sidelines and complain. The joy of being a fan...

Regarding the Myers case, I've always been supportive of Myers and still am. However the fact remain that with both QH and OEL in the team, we need some more defensive minded RHDs.
I'm not so worried about points, Tanev was never a massive point producer, but he would be perfect to cover for either. 
You did think outside the box, which is, what's needed, as in all likelyhood we won't be getting a top 5 pick back in any trade. 
Keep up the good fight Jan

I don't see Myers as a problem at all either ... I see not having Myers as more of a problem but would be happy to see a Tanev type instead ... Mitchell... Manson...

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I like that as a discussion part, we've never been 'lucky' in the draft so we are always behind the 8 ball to figure out ways to get a great trade. But I think Miller has that possibility.  After looking at the Copp and Tofu deals, I think we may have the makings of truly helping our team taking the next step. Adding a first rounder and a good player would help. Or adding a top 5 pick and a player would also help. And not relying on the 15 pick to be a game day regular for us this coming season. With the right coaching we now have a more realistic assessment of what we have going forward. 

COL worst and second worst team in the NHL , drafted Makar and EP 4/5, i'd say that was good karma/luck - and of course QHs slipping because of Zadina and Kots (too many vowels) taken before QHs but that was around where he was supposed to go (most felt Det for sure though - lucky only because MTL went way off board at 3 for us) ....  anyways agreed no lotto luck just some home runs over the years ... Bure of course being the best all-time so far. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Columbus Ana and Buff have an extra first they might deal.

Do they have a pick and a dman, or good prospect?