Drafting Defence

[iceman64]

For years we've had great D BUT no depth to speak of so when players like Edler, Salo, and Tanev were often injured, we'd lose games because we had no one to step in really. 

 

My wish list is from the building a team from the net out philosophy, we're covered there in Demko, Martin and some depth development in the farm but then defense is another story, again we have "some" but if I'm JR I'm going all out trading for prospects from from good teams who can't crack a roster, I.e. Tampa, I doubt we can rob again but in that direction but then drafting for 2 years with nothing but D as close to the BPA as you can get or trade BPA forward or Goalie for a player we may have missed out on that has all the attributes we need. 

 So I hope we load up for 2 years because forwards are a lot easier to get and draft more of them after the drafting D spree. Surely we can trade forward for forward for the roster and save on cap in one way or another. 

 My thoughts are just load up and have more odds for a success or 2 (ish) and on ELC so all I'm doing is "hoping" at this point but the problem we've had since day one needs to be solved or we're never going to win a cup... 

 Get it done JR! 

 Thoughts? 

[Angry Goose]

Im hoping the amateur scouting overhaul will pay dividends.  Cammi Granato has a very thorough system in place that will hopefully lead to more NHL quality picks. 

 

As far as the short term future of the back end goes though, I dont think you can rush it.  Perhaps you can acquire a top 4 dman or two through trades to help, but the majority of building will have to be through the draft. Id advocate for a quantity approach at this point. Try acquire a large # of picks and if your scouting is solid, hit on a bunch. 

[iceman64]

2 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

Im hoping the amateur scouting overhaul will pay dividends.  Cammi Granato has a very thorough system in place that will hopefully lead to more NHL quality picks. 

 

As far as the short term future of the back end goes though, I dont think you can rush it.  Perhaps you can acquire a top 4 dman or two through trades to help, but the majority of building will have to be through the draft. Id advocate for a quantity approach at this point. Try acquire a large # of picks and if your scouting is solid, hit on a bunch. 

Nothing to do with rushing it actually, my thinking is load up on D for all our picks for the next 2 seasons which increases the odds of success or a combination of both prospects and picks but our depth on defense HAS to be addressed and I hope it's sooner than later to get the ball rolling and start development instead of signing FA's instead of ELC's.. which obviously helps out our cap situation.

[Angry Goose]

20 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Nothing to do with rushing it actually,

It was a figure of speech, actually.

 

But using “all our picks” from the next two drafts in solely defensemen could come across that way.

[hammertime]

Lian Bichsel

Sam Rinzel/Noah Warren

John Babcock.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I am in total agreement with you Iceman.

 

But, I will say this.......and I honestly do not like trading any of them............

 

If, one of Horvat, Miller, Garland  or Boeser goes, maybe we can get a young Dman to start it going...................

[Alflives]

What we need to do is draft a Victor Hedman, and then trade for guys and sign UFAs to build around him.  Tampa’s two Cup teams D was a drafted Hedman and trades and UFAs.

So we have Hughes.  We traded for OEL.  That’s two. 

[iceman64]

3 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

It was a figure of speech, actually.

 

But using “all our picks” from the next two drafts in solely defensemen could come across that way.

Ok fair enough, just meant filling the cupboards with D however that looks. Anything is possible however, I do know that keeping every pick we can, even late rounds since you just never know, a good example of that it a certain former 3rd round pick of the Av's in Spencer Martin, 63rd overall, and to top it off Pavel Datsyuk was 171 overall so one can hope but you can't hope in something you don't have so we have to keep our picks unless a good D prospect looks too good  to pass up. Meh, who knows, maybe JR will load up since it's fairly obvious we are low on D depth. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by iceman64

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

It was a figure of speech, actually.

 

But using “all our picks” from the next two drafts in solely defensemen could come across that way.

BPA's always always always

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

Im hoping the amateur scouting overhaul will pay dividends.  Cammi Granato has a very thorough system in place that will hopefully lead to more NHL quality picks. 

 

As far as the short term future of the back end goes though, I dont think you can rush it.  Perhaps you can acquire a top 4 dman or two through trades to help, but the majority of building will have to be through the draft. Id advocate for a quantity approach at this point. Try acquire a large # of picks and if your scouting is solid, hit on a bunch. 

Drafting is always important but I think that pro scouting is most important for the Canucks at this point in their cycle.  They need prospects and players under 26 as Rutherford has said.  New draftees won't be in their prime for 5-7 years at which point Petey and Hughes will be 30 

[iceman64]

3 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Drafting is always important but I think that pro scouting is most important for the Canucks at this point in their cycle.  They need prospects and players under 26 as Rutherford has said.  New draftees won't be in their prime for 5-7 years at which point Petey and Hughes will be 30 

Well I disagree it always takes 5-7 years, seen in happen in 1-3 but that soley depends on him and whoever coaches. I just think our forward group needs toughness and speed with some skill. I really don't care how it happens but the truth is until we get enough depth to cover for injuries, like all the other times we sunk for lack of depth, that ship has to sail. Once and for all. 

 Maybe not every pick has to be D BUT I'd at least like to see it as the majority of picks if JR doesn't get young prospects.

[Crabcakes]

45 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Well I disagree it always takes 5-7 years, seen in happen in 1-3 but that soley depends on him and whoever coaches. I just think our forward group needs toughness and speed with some skill. I really don't care how it happens but the truth is until we get enough depth to cover for injuries, like all the other times we sunk for lack of depth, that ship has to sail. Once and for all. 

 Maybe not every pick has to be D BUT I'd at least like to see it as the majority of picks if JR doesn't get young prospects.

This is an issue with the development curve of the Canucks as a team.  I see Bo Horvat as the first piece of the rebuild, although I'm sure the owner doesn't see it that way, and he he 27 already.  And yes, some develop in a couple of years but they are usually in the top 5 or so and the Canucks aren't drafting that high any more.  So I think that we need to take off our rose coloured glasses and realize that the players who they might add to the line up who are going to fit with the core group are no longer 17 years old.  So pro scouting is far more important to this teams advancement.

[Coconuts]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

What we need to do is draft a Victor Hedman, and then trade for guys and sign UFAs to build around him.  Tampa’s two Cup teams D was a drafted Hedman and trades and UFAs.

So we have Hughes.  We traded for OEL.  That’s two. 

Hedman was picked 2nd overall though, landing a player that turns out like him or Weber is like finding a unicorn. Every team wishes they had a Hedman.

 

If we want those elite level players we need to have high picks, beat the odds and have teams pass on such a player, or find a diamond in the rough. Folks quibble about picks as they aren't a guarantee, but the best players are usually found in the first or second round. And often top 10.

[ShawnAntoski]

Great discussions.  Firstly, it will boil down to how much time, Aquaman will give JR & friends and how successful the new crew will be in selling & executing there plans.  

 

For awhile, now the team has focused on spending some draft capital on a goalie every year or two and it is paying off cause of Clarke, whilst other team(s) like Carolina & LA had instead focused on spending some draft capital on RHD, every year.   Drafting or player acquisition (via draft or trades) is one part and the hardest part is development; hopefully, the new Player Development Department (headlined by the Sedins) can mitigate any failure from the Abby group, when it comes to player development.  Preferably, they sell high on certain players by targeting RHD prospects & premium picks as assets coming back, going BPA with there 1st and filling needs with the rest of the picks.  JR, Allvin & Clancy were part of the Penguins front office that won two cups but they were not the crew that drafted that HOF core, regardless, there time there should give them some experience on what players to look for to build around the young core of EP & Hughes.   The Canucks are in danger of getting stuck in NHL purgatory but atleast, for two more years, JR is here to (hopefully) guide Allvin, in the right direction ?  It seems the draft is where Allvin will be making his moves but still cautiously optimistic that the teams third straight rookie GM, can deliver.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Fred65]

10 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

This is an issue with the development curve of the Canucks as a team.  I see Bo Horvat as the first piece of the rebuild, although I'm sure the owner doesn't see it that way, and he he 27 already.  And yes, some develop in a couple of years but they are usually in the top 5 or so and the Canucks aren't drafting that high any more.  So I think that we need to take off our rose coloured glasses and realize that the players who they might add to the line up who are going to fit with the core group are no longer 17 years old.  So pro scouting is far more important to this teams advancement.

Vcr's achilies heel IMO, pro scouting has really sent us some crap

[AV.]

Iceman64 calls for defence and Allvin delivers F. Johansson.

Iceman64 just needs to call for a Stanley Cup and we'll be shredding at the Rogers Arena in no time!

[Hairy Kneel]

More specific, we need a couple of big defensive defenseman. A Dirk and a Babych shut down block shot guys. 

Let our skill guys wheel and deal. 

[Googlie]

12 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

More specific, we need a couple of big defensive defenseman. A Dirk and a Babych shut down block shot guys. 

Let our skill guys wheel and deal. 

Speaking of which, where has Juulsen gone wrong? .......

 

See:

 

A solid two-way defender, Noah Juulsen is able to force plays and always find ways to support his teammates. Juulsen is a smooth, yet not dynamic skater, and is mobile when he needs to be. Plays with a chip on his shoulder, and isn't afraid to take the hit to make the play. Sees the ice well and has the individual skills to carry out the possibilities he sees. Very poised with the puck; calm and controls the play with authority. Has good hands. Without the puck and in high-pressure situations, Juulsen tends to overthink things and can try to do a little too much; that will go away with time and maturity. All-in-all, an impactful presence on the ice that strives to be difficult to play against; given how hard he works and how smart he is with the puck, he can be a very difficult player to read with and without the puck. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015)

 

He didn't look out of place in his brief call-up, and at 6'2", 201 lbs, would seem to check the boxes, but the fan base, and Managenent, are totally silent on him.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Googlie

[Hairy Kneel]

8 minutes ago, Googlie said:

Speaking of which, where has Juulsen gone wrong? .......

 

See:

 

A solid two-way defender, Noah Juulsen is able to force plays and always find ways to support his teammates. Juulsen is a smooth, yet not dynamic skater, and is mobile when he needs to be. Plays with a chip on his shoulder, and isn't afraid to take the hit to make the play. Sees the ice well and has the individual skills to carry out the possibilities he sees. Very poised with the puck; calm and controls the play with authority. Has good hands. Without the puck and in high-pressure situations, Juulsen tends to overthink things and can try to do a little too much; that will go away with time and maturity. All-in-all, an impactful presence on the ice that strives to be difficult to play against; given how hard he works and how smart he is with the puck, he can be a very difficult player to read with and without the puck. (Curtis Joe, EP 2015)

 

He didn't look out of place in his brief call-up, and at 6'2", 201 lbs, would seem to check the boxes, but the fan base, and Managenent, are totally silent on him.

 

 

I would have absolutely preferred him over scat cat Hunt.

[-AJ-]

Over the years, I've become more and more convinced, that, especially in the 1st round and maybe even the 2nd, always pick the BPA. If you want to stock the cupboards with defensive prospects, pick tons in the later rounds and maybe you'll find one that can stick an NHL job.

If the BPA in the 1st or 2nd round at our pick happens to be a defenseman, that's a bonus.