[Proposal] Canucks - Lightning Boeser becomes a Bolt

[BigTramFan]

15 hours ago, IBatch said:

Palat might come back on a cheaper 2-3 year deal.   TB no state taxes ... Unless he's going to one of the other 4 that don't...  I'm pretty sure he will take a "discount" to stay lol.   5 in TB is close to 6 in Vancouver.   Could take 3.25 in TB instead of 4ish somewhere else...

I think $3.25m is a big discount for Palat even in TB with the lower income tax. He has earned only $38m in his whole career, could likely earn another another $20m if he doesn't stay in TB. But it's entirely possible he chooses to stay.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

I think $3.25m is a big discount for Palat even in TB with the lower income tax. He has earned only $38m in his whole career, could likely earn another another $20m if he doesn't stay in TB. But it's entirely possible he chooses to stay.

You are correct and think you nailed it as well.    But it might take one more deal after this one.   I was using Dadanov as a comp.   Who could also get another deal.    But that was also a covid contract. 

 

31 ... suppose it depends on his contract length, 32 by next years playoffs.  A four year deal is probable.  Your probably right 4 million x 5 years or 5 million x 4 seems doable.   Dadonov was the comp i had in mind, got a 3 year deal at around the same age for 4 million,  after a killer KHL career and 3 very decent NHL ones ... Given what he's done in Tampa this off season his stock probably goes up.   So maybe 4 in Tampa bay, which equals 4.75ish in Vancouver, MTL, TO.   I thought Palat was 32.    That said 3.25 x 5 is the same as 4 x 5 almost anywhere else - so if it happens ... won't be shocked.   

 

 

 

Edit:  Bettman said recently that they anticipate only two more seasons of flat cap plus one million to be made whole from covid.   That's about one year ahead of schedule.    Also means that contracts signed this summer will be adjusted based on term for that scenario.   Two years of basically flat cap, and then back to normal operating procedure, cap increases of 5-10% each year.   That also will have an impact on our team ... EPs next deal for one, same with whatever we do with Miller and Horvat, their agents will also be looking at that and pushing for increases.     Days of reasonable contracts (Tyler Toffoli, Tanev, Pearson, Dadanov etc ... are about to change)... Was nice while it was available.    I'd take a poke at Palat too considering he's a much better player then Brock and isn't going to cost the farm given his age.    Brock is young but still has much to prove to earn his deal.   His QO is league wide known as an issue.   Mier's in SJ... wonder how the heck they get under that (only other grandfathered one that is a massive issue - believe it's 10!!! lol)... Covid affected Vancouver and SJ more then any other teams plans. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by IBatch

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

31 ... suppose it depends on his contract length, 32 by next years playoffs.  A four year deal is probable.  Your probably right 4 million x 5 years or 5 million x 4 seems doable.   Dadonov was the comp i had in mind, got a 3 year deal at around the same age for 4 million,  after a killer KHL career and 3 very decent NHL ones ... Given what he's done in Tampa this off season his stock probably goes up.   So maybe 4 in Tampa bay, which equals 4.75ish in Vancouver, MTL, TO.   I thought Palat was 32.  

 

Edit:  Bettman said recently that they anticipate only two more seasons of flat cap plus one million to be made whole from covid.   That's about one year ahead of schedule.    Also means that contracts signed this summer will be adjusted based on term for that scenario.   Two years of basically flat cap, and then back to normal operating procedure, cap increases of 5-10% each year. 

Perfect timing for Pettey when his next contract comes up. 

[IBatch]

42 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Perfect timing for Pettey when his next contract comes up. 

Yes it sure is ... for him and the team.   Covid really threw a wrench in JBs plans. as did Ferland and his fiasco going into the bubble.   Glad he's gone - shouldn't have ever been spending to the cap during a rebuild, especially near the end of it.    It is what it is.    As fans we need to brace ourselves for a re-set.

 

I know how exciting it was in the bubble, and just making the playoffs to see what these guys can do now is extremely tempting given how well we played down the stretch.   Played like a top 6-7 team in the entire league.   That's a fringe contender.    That said ... we simply don't have enough money for all these guys.    We do next year yes.   That's it though.   Miller and Horvat combined will cost us 5 more at least.   Means we lose Garland and play a Chiasson instead.    Or something like that.    Pearson plus another Pearson for two Chiassons etc.    Added to that our lack of D prospects etc ... ouch.   

 

Im actually ok with just letting things play out next season.   Because i know we are headed for some changes anyways.   And really do want to see if we can go on a magical run.   COL fans were nervous about having to play us in the first round if we made the last wild card spot.   And rightly so.   Expecting a little core ascension next year isn't unreasonable.    You don't get a lot of chances with 32 teams these days.    I'd be stoked to make the playoffs and THEN make the tough decisions.   I'd also be ok with just pulling the plug and re-setting starting this draft.    Feel that Brock is a wild card.    He will either pull it together and earn another deal ... OR he's the guy that's traded just for a bag of pucks and the cap space.   

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes it sure is ... for him and the team.   Covid really threw a wrench in JBs plans. as did Ferland and his fiasco going into the bubble.   Glad he's gone - shouldn't have ever been spending to the cap during a rebuild, especially near the end of it.    It is what it is.    As fans we need to brace ourselves for a re-set.

 

I know how exciting it was in the bubble, and just making the playoffs to see what these guys can do now is extremely tempting given how well we played down the stretch.   Played like a top 6-7 team in the entire league.   That's a fringe contender.    That said ... we simply don't have enough money for all these guys.    We do next year yes.   That's it though.   Miller and Horvat combined will cost us 5 more at least.   Means we lose Garland and play a Chiasson instead.    Or something like that.    Pearson plus another Pearson for two Chiassons etc.    Added to that our lack of D prospects etc ... ouch.   

 

Im actually ok with just letting things play out next season.   Because i know we are headed for some changes anyways.   And really do want to see if we can go on a magical run.   COL fans were nervous about having to play us in the first round if we made the last wild card spot.   And rightly so.   Expecting a little core ascension next year isn't unreasonable.    You don't get a lot of chances with 32 teams these days.    I'd be stoked to make the playoffs and THEN make the tough decisions.   I'd also be ok with just pulling the plug and re-setting starting this draft.    Feel that Brock is a wild card.    He will either pull it together and earn another deal ... OR he's the guy that's traded just for a bag of pucks and the cap space.   

I’m hoping we “reset” like you suggest.  We can get a very good return for Miller and Garland.  Take a step back this year.  That would allow us to Qualify Brock and Trade him at the 2023 TDL as a rental.  Should get a couple seconds in a very good 2023 draft for him.  Could move Myers at the 2024 TDL for excellent return as a rental.

Step back for two years makes the most sense.  Then leap ahead in the 2024/25 season with still having Demko and Hughes on their excellent contracts.  Bo will be 28/29 and still a great player and leader.  Petey will be in the heart of his prime. Pods will be a beast and core player. Rathbone will be in our group and two years more developed.  And the youth we collected during those two reset years will be pushing for roles.  

[DrJockitch]

55 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes it sure is ... for him and the team.   Covid really threw a wrench in JBs plans. as did Ferland and his fiasco going into the bubble.   Glad he's gone - shouldn't have ever been spending to the cap during a rebuild, especially near the end of it.    It is what it is.    As fans we need to brace ourselves for a re-set.

 

I know how exciting it was in the bubble, and just making the playoffs to see what these guys can do now is extremely tempting given how well we played down the stretch.   Played like a top 6-7 team in the entire league.   That's a fringe contender.    That said ... we simply don't have enough money for all these guys.    We do next year yes.   That's it though.   Miller and Horvat combined will cost us 5 more at least.   Means we lose Garland and play a Chiasson instead.    Or something like that.    Pearson plus another Pearson for two Chiassons etc.    Added to that our lack of D prospects etc ... ouch.   

 

Im actually ok with just letting things play out next season.   Because i know we are headed for some changes anyways.   And really do want to see if we can go on a magical run.   COL fans were nervous about having to play us in the first round if we made the last wild card spot.   And rightly so.   Expecting a little core ascension next year isn't unreasonable.    You don't get a lot of chances with 32 teams these days.    I'd be stoked to make the playoffs and THEN make the tough decisions.   I'd also be ok with just pulling the plug and re-setting starting this draft.    Feel that Brock is a wild card.    He will either pull it together and earn another deal ... OR he's the guy that's traded just for a bag of pucks and the cap space.   

I have been pushing the reset as well.

We were not a top 6-7 team with Bruce we were 12-13th in the league over that stretch, so playoff team but nowhere near pushing into the contender status other than the wild card we have in net. 
We need to burn at least one of the assets we have all been discussing to find Q’s partner and the rest should really be looking to gain assets in the 23 draft IMHO. Then again I have been tortured by this teams incompetence for decades so am willing to wait for the team to get built properly not just another shortcut retool or whatever they decide to call it this time. 
I hope this is a quality management team and they do the right things and rebuild towards making more of a TB, Avs style contender. 

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

I have been pushing the reset as well.

We were not a top 6-7 team with Bruce we were 12-13th in the league over that stretch, so playoff team but nowhere near pushing into the contender status other than the wild card we have in net. 
We need to burn at least one of the assets we have all been discussing to find Q’s partner and the rest should really be looking to gain assets in the 23 draft IMHO. Then again I have been tortured by this teams incompetence for decades so am willing to wait for the team to get built properly not just another shortcut retool or whatever they decide to call it this time. 
I hope this is a quality management team and they do the right things and rebuild towards making more of a TB, Avs style contender. 

Down the stretch we were were we not? I'm not talking about the first winning streak...just down the stretch.   Last 25 games or so (at least that's what i read - i suppose you can take any sample size and come to whatever conclusion - but we also were tops on the league in the PP over that last 25 or so games - better then anyone)..... Which i why i said down the stretch.   

[DownUndaCanuck]

There may be a sneaky way to get some of their gold for sure - Tampa is really up against it cap-wise. They've been quite savvy the last few years, letting players go who need big extensions/contracts and filling them with cheaper guys, but next year they're really in it. Firstly there's no way they take on any big contracts coming back unless we retain big-time.

 

Sergachev and Cernak are due big extensions and Cernak probably won't be as expensive as Sergachev. They've got 11 forwards under contract so could probably just throw some kid/AHLer onto their 4th line for league minimum. I don't see Palat and Paul coming back. As it stands they're about 2M over cap with almost everyone re-signed for next season but it's the year after where they're in trouble really, so they're not in any massive pressure to make big moves, but they do need to free up some cap (and still sign a backup goalie).

 

A trade which would make sense for Tampa would be something like Cirelli or Killorn to some team for a cheaper player around the 1-2M mark and a pick. Trading Sergachev or Cernak doesn't make much sense - they don't have many great young defenders to back them up just yet.

 

The only trade which may work for both teams is if we take some cap off their hands:

 

TO VAN: Cernak + Killorn

TO TBL: Dermott + Rathbone/pick (1st or 2nd) + Garland (1m retained)

 

Basically Killorn had a good year last year but is only getting older, has been pretty invisible in the playoffs and is costing them almost 5M in cap space. Garland replaces his offence and then some - you know he'll have huge 60+ point seasons with them. Garland at 4M is a bargain and the sort of contracts Tampa need.

 

On defence they'll re-sign Sergachev to likely a monster deal next off-season so need some flexibility. Dermott and Rathbone (or a pick, whichever they prefer time-span wise) gives them a cheaper alternative. This just depends on how much the league/Tampa value Cernak. He seems like a premier young RHD but in all fairness he plays 2nd pairing minutes and doesn't produce much offence. Dermott's versatility and low cap hit is really useful on a team like Tampa, and the extra value/cap flexibility we give Tampa with Garland goes towards Cernak coming over. Cap-wise, Tampa shed 7.5M, re-take 4M (Garland) + 1.5M (Dermott) so free up the 2M they need this season and helps them out going forward.

 

Basically Killorn is a bit of a cap dump and effort to bring over Cernak who we look to sign long-term and staple next to Hughes for the next 5-7 years. Bringing in Killorn maybe makes Pearson a bit more expendable as he's quite good defensively as well and we're stacked up front with Kuzmenko coming in too, or we could just roll with this lineup.

[Hairy Kneel]

nope