The Current Construction of the Vancouver Canucks

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So with the signing of Brock Boeser, we currently have only two players left to sign that are RFA's.  Juho Lammikko and Matthew Highmore.  If we were to re-sign both of them which is likely, then our team is complete with 23 players and we are at around $82 million on the cap including Ferland's LTIR, our buyouts and bonus money.  Here is the current construction of our team:

 

Kuzmenko        Pettersson       Boeser

Pearson           Miller                Podkolzin

Hoglander        Horvat              Garland

Dickinson         Lammikko        Highmore

Dowling

 

Hughes          Schenn

OEL               Myers

Dermott         Poolman

Rathbone      Burroughs 

 

Demko    Martin

 

So how do people view the current construction of our team?  What needs to be done to make us better?  

 

We've obviously talked about alot of ways to change the makeup of the team.  Let's use this thread to look at the actual lineup and make changes that can show actual lines put together as well as defence partners.  

 

I see the current makeup of the team as good enough to make the playoffs but will have trouble beating the upper echelon teams.  Should Miller be kept to keep our centre depth elite?  How does that affect the wings?  Do we need more size and speed on the wings?  More truculence?  How do you feel about Schenn having to play with Hughes on the top pairing?  Will Poolman even be able to play?

I'd say, that this is still 95% JB's team, and to expect some changes.    They wouldn't go through that much front office stuff just to ice basically the same team would they?   Don't think so.   Sure new coach.....but still that's also a staff change not a player change.   

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Zhukini said:

Petey will turn 24 this year, you have to be good enough to make the finals in the next 4 years or this has been a waste of a decade.

 

Trade Miller, get rid of the anchors. 
Get it right. 

Well let's give then another 6 years ... that's the average these days - one cup, one bridesmaid every 32 years ... and that's actually very decent given we don't have a fair cap system. 

[Phil_314]

Moves are pretty obvious IMO, trade Miller after extension, find a taker for Myers, Garland for RHD with term (agreed with Marino), then for Dickinson/ Poolman, either use DiPietro as a sweetener and trade them out, or find a hockey trade (bad contract for bad contract that meets our positional need).  Lastly, target Vegas' lack of cap and get Nick Roy.

[48MPHSlapShot]

Echoing some of the sentiments already shared here, the top 9 as it stands right now is really deep.

We certainly can't count on Miller having another 99 point season, but he should be good for at least a PPG pace.

I would put money on both Petey and Boeser bouncing back, with Petey possibly breaking out.

I'd like to think that Hoglander is capable of more after his sophomore slump last year. Wouldn't be surprised if he crept back up to the .5 PPG pace that he performed at in his rookie season, depending on the ice time.

Pearson is getting older, but he had a decent season last year. I think it's reasonable to expect more of the same.

Garland's production I imagine should be about the same, possibly better with more power play time.

Horvat is Horvat. I don't imagine we'll be seeing much fluctuation in his numbers for some time.

Kuzmenko is the wildcard. Anything between Hoglander and Horvat's production is reasonable imo.

 

Then we look at the defense and things start to get less rosey.

Our left side is fine. I imagine most teams in the league would be content with a left side of Hughes, OEL and Dermott/Rathbone.

 

The right side is a train wreck. Myers is a fine player for the most part, but overpaid and just doesn't fit this team's composition. Myers and Hughes together can get pretty ugly, and while OEL and Myers together isn't bad, OEL ends up being neutered a bit having to cover for Myers defensive lapses.

 

Poolman is a bottom pairing defenseman. Useful as a utility player, but his contract coupled with his migraine issues make him negative value for us. He's not a guy that should be playing in the top 4.

 

Schenn has played above himself in Vancouver, and should be commended for that, but he's certainly no long term solution. He's a bottom pairing defenseman that, luckily for us, has solid chemistry with Hughes. Ideally, I would like to see him paired with Rathbone on the third pairing. Rathbone projects as somewhat of a Hughes-lite, so it's reasonable to think that maybe Schenn could do for Rathbone what he did for Hughes, helping him find his footing in the NHL on the third pairing.

 

So of the RHD, the only one I'm really comfortable with is Schenn on the third pairing with Rathbone. Ideally, we would replace Myers and Poolman with two legit top 4 defenders with a strong stay-at-home game, which would allow Hughes and OEL to do their thing offensively. Players with some size and grit would be preferable as well (Not so concerned with OEL's partner in that department, as OEL is capable of throwing his weight around, but Hughes partner is a different story).

 

So, ideally speaking, we would be able to move some of our top 9 depth for help on the right side. Horvat is not a third line player, yet, with the way our roster is currently constructed, that's where he sits. 

 

Bottom line: We have a surplus of top 9 talent, but glaring holes on the blueline. As things stand, we should be competitive and might have a chance to sneak in, but our poor roster construction and lack of size and grit will prevent us from doing any real damage.

 

[hammertime]

18 minutes ago, Pears said:

In all honesty if we find at least one bonafide top four RD that isn’t a bad looking group. I think at least two of Miller/Garland/Pearson/Myers will be moved for cap space to be used for said upgrades. 

Ok I'll let you in on this really cool secret apparently Canucks fans don't know. You literally can't upgrade a single one of the players you just named for their cap hit. You can maybe find different equivalent players for Pearson/Myers with different strengths and different flaws. 

 

If you're trading Miller/Garland you're making the team worse now in the hopes of making it better in the future. If you make the team worse now I think Horvat likely walks and you rebuild focusing around Pete Hughes Pod Hog. Suddenly we are Jim Benning overpaying for grinders to prop the kids up again.

 

Honestly I really truly feel the player that had the best return in terms of value was Brock Boeser. 6.65m is a lot of cap I feel for that amount of money there are not only equivalent but players who would be a better fit in terms of position and play style available and also return an asset on Brocks rights. 

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I think Horvat likely walks

Horvat can not 'walk'

He is signed for another year.

If he doesn't sign a reasonable deal, he gets traded.

Thus he doesn't leave without a return of value to the Canucks.

 

[EdgarM]

12 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So with the signing of Brock Boeser, we currently have only two players left to sign that are RFA's.  Juho Lammikko and Matthew Highmore.  If we were to re-sign both of them which is likely, then our team is complete with 23 players and we are at around $82 million on the cap including Ferland's LTIR, our buyouts and bonus money.  Here is the current construction of our team:

 

Kuzmenko        Pettersson       Boeser

Pearson           Miller                Podkolzin

Hoglander        Horvat              Garland

Dickinson         Lammikko        Highmore

Dowling

 

Hughes          Schenn

OEL               Myers

Dermott         Poolman

Rathbone      Burroughs 

 

Demko    Martin

 

So how do people view the current construction of our team?  What needs to be done to make us better?  

 

We've obviously talked about alot of ways to change the makeup of the team.  Let's use this thread to look at the actual lineup and make changes that can show actual lines put together as well as defence partners.  

 

I see the current makeup of the team as good enough to make the playoffs but will have trouble beating the upper echelon teams.  Should Miller be kept to keep our centre depth elite?  How does that affect the wings?  Do we need more size and speed on the wings?  More truculence?  How do you feel about Schenn having to play with Hughes on the top pairing?  Will Poolman even be able to play?

 

12 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Echoing some of the sentiments already shared here, the top 9 as it stands right now is really deep.

We certainly can't count on Miller having another 99 point season, but he should be good for at least a PPG pace.

I would put money on both Petey and Boeser bouncing back, with Petey possibly breaking out.

I'd like to think that Hoglander is capable of more after his sophomore slump last year. Wouldn't be surprised if he crept back up to the .5 PPG pace that he performed at in his rookie season, depending on the ice time.

Pearson is getting older, but he had a decent season last year. I think it's reasonable to expect more of the same.

Garland's production I imagine should be about the same, possibly better with more power play time.

Horvat is Horvat. I don't imagine we'll be seeing much fluctuation in his numbers for some time.

Kuzmenko is the wildcard. Anything between Hoglander and Horvat's production is reasonable imo.

 

Then we look at the defense and things start to get less rosey.

Our left side is fine. I imagine most teams in the league would be content with a left side of Hughes, OEL and Dermott/Rathbone.

 

The right side is a train wreck. Myers is a fine player for the most part, but overpaid and just doesn't fit this team's composition. Myers and Hughes together can get pretty ugly, and while OEL and Myers together isn't bad, OEL ends up being neutered a bit having to cover for Myers defensive lapses.

 

Poolman is a bottom pairing defenseman. Useful as a utility player, but his contract coupled with his migraine issues make him negative value for us. He's not a guy that should be playing in the top 4.

 

Schenn has played above himself in Vancouver, and should be commended for that, but he's certainly no long term solution. He's a bottom pairing defenseman that, luckily for us, has solid chemistry with Hughes. Ideally, I would like to see him paired with Rathbone on the third pairing. Rathbone projects as somewhat of a Hughes-lite, so it's reasonable to think that maybe Schenn could do for Rathbone what he did for Hughes, helping him find his footing in the NHL on the third pairing.

 

So of the RHD, the only one I'm really comfortable with is Schenn on the third pairing with Rathbone. Ideally, we would replace Myers and Poolman with two legit top 4 defenders with a strong stay-at-home game, which would allow Hughes and OEL to do their thing offensively. Players with some size and grit would be preferable as well (Not so concerned with OEL's partner in that department, as OEL is capable of throwing his weight around, but Hughes partner is a different story).

 

So, ideally speaking, we would be able to move some of our top 9 depth for help on the right side. Horvat is not a third line player, yet, with the way our roster is currently constructed, that's where he sits. 

 

Bottom line: We have a surplus of top 9 talent, but glaring holes on the blueline. As things stand, we should be competitive and might have a chance to sneak in, but our poor roster construction and lack of size and grit will prevent us from doing any real damage.

 

 I think you are right on the money Slapshot. More specifically, we cannot keep Petey, Miller and Bo as our centers, that will need to change(neither are 3rd line centers or are paid like it). Also, having Boeser and Garland are redundant and there is a serious need to add speed, size and grit in the top 9. Also, like many have alluded to, we need that RHD and probably 2 of them. 

Ideally to solve the issue we could trade Miller/Bo for one of them and Garland/Boeser for the other, in a perfect world. 

Like you said, Hogs may fill the bill, but again he falls into that smallish forward and will need size around him to be successful.

[hammertime]

Just now, gurn said:

Horvat can not 'walk'

He is signed for another year.

If he doesn't sign a reasonable deal, he gets traded.

Thus he doesn't leave without a return of value to the Canucks.

 

 

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

If you make the team worse now I think Horvat likely walks and you rebuild focusing around Pete Hughes Pod Hog. Suddenly we are Jim Benning overpaying for grinders to prop the kids up again. 

You're focusing on the wrong issue. 

[Gurn]

13 minutes ago, hammertime said:

 

You're focusing on the wrong issue. 

You're saying incorrect things. Horvat cannot walk, unless the team decides to let him.

 

[hammertime]

43 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

Moves are pretty obvious IMO, trade Miller after extension, find a taker for Myers, Garland for RHD with term (agreed with Marino), then for Dickinson/ Poolman, either use DiPietro as a sweetener and trade them out, or find a hockey trade (bad contract for bad contract that meets our positional need).  Lastly, target Vegas' lack of cap and get Nick Roy.

You know what?......... You should totally make a trade proposal thread! Love these ideas. 

[hammertime]

9 minutes ago, gurn said:

You're saying incorrect things. Horvat cannot walk, unless the team decides to let him.

 

 

If I change the sentence to gets traded does it change the point of the sentence. 

 

"You're focusing on the wrong issue."

 

So in your version we. Trade Miller we get worse now to get better later. We struggle to make the playoffs Bo asks for a trade at the deadline............. "We we rebuild". Sorry I didn't realize I had to connect literal dots for the reader.

Edited July 2, 2022 by hammertime

[RU SERIOUS]

15 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Ok I'll let you in on this really cool secret apparently Canucks fans don't know. You literally can't upgrade a single one of the players you just named for their cap hit. You can maybe find different equivalent players for Pearson/Myers with different strengths and different flaws. 

 

If you're trading Miller/Garland you're making the team worse now in the hopes of making it better in the future. If you make the team worse now I think Horvat likely walks and you rebuild focusing around Pete Hughes Pod Hog. Suddenly we are Jim Benning overpaying for grinders to prop the kids up again.

 

Honestly I really truly feel the player that had the best return in terms of value was Brock Boeser. 6.65m is a lot of cap I feel for that amount of money there are not only equivalent but players who would be a better fit in terms of position and play style available and also return an asset on Brocks rights. 

Good points and yes, he should not have been paid more than $4.5-5M for what little he does, as he is a genuine "floater" - only bringing ONE thing to the table and that is being a shooter.    I’ll be shocked if he stays with the team in the long run if his current style of play continues, as I strongly suspect he was simply signed so the Canucks could trade him and not lose him for nothing.    Worse case, if they actually plan on keeping him - is to give him one last chance to see if he can get re-engaged following this past year’s distractions and fix some of the many shortcomings he has and become the player we once thought he could be.     It would be nice if that actually happens  but I’m not holding my breath!

[RU SERIOUS]

24 minutes ago, gurn said:

Horvat can not 'walk'

He is signed for another year.

If he doesn't sign a reasonable deal, he gets traded.

Thus he doesn't leave without a return of value to the Canucks.

 

I won't be surprised if he's traded as I suspect JR and Alvin know this team needs a culture change from the standing "Country-Club" atmosphere to a hard working team of fierce competitors.  So, I suspect they are shopping him around to see what his value is and whether they can make a strategic trade happen.  

[Nucklefuts]

33 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Ok I'll let you in on this really cool secret apparently Canucks fans don't know. You literally can't upgrade a single one of the players you just named for their cap hit. You can maybe find different equivalent players for Pearson/Myers with different strengths and different flaws. 

 

If you're trading Miller/Garland you're making the team worse now in the hopes of making it better in the future. If you make the team worse now I think Horvat likely walks and you rebuild focusing around Pete Hughes Pod Hog. Suddenly we are Jim Benning overpaying for grinders to prop the kids up again.

 

Honestly I really truly feel the player that had the best return in terms of value was Brock Boeser. 6.65m is a lot of cap I feel for that amount of money there are not only equivalent but players who would be a better fit in terms of position and play style available and also return an asset on Brocks rights. 

I think you can upgrade on Pearson, but that's pretty well it. 

[hammertime]

3 minutes ago, Nucklefuts said:

I think you can upgrade on Pearson, but that's pretty well it. 

If you were to trade Pearson what kind of return would you hope for. If your return was a pick/prospect? If player? If both? 

[Nucklefuts]

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

If you were to trade Pearson what kind of return would you hope for. If your return was a pick/prospect? If player? If both? 

Pick. You wouldn't get a good player. Probly only gets you a 5th round or later with his cap. 

 

I just think his career is almost over.

 

His replacement would bring size and grit, but wouldn't replace his goals.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Nucklefuts

[48MPHSlapShot]

54 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

 I think you are right on the money Slapshot. More specifically, we cannot keep Petey, Miller and Bo as our centers, that will need to change(neither are 3rd line centers or are paid like it). Also, having Boeser and Garland are redundant and there is a serious need to add speed, size and grit in the top 9. Also, like many have alluded to, we need that RHD and probably 2 of them. 

Ideally to solve the issue we could trade Miller/Bo for one of them and Garland/Boeser for the other, in a perfect world. 

Like you said, Hogs may fill the bill, but again he falls into that smallish forward and will need size around him to be successful.

Thanks.

 

The thing about Hogz is that he's cheap. We may be able to find a better fit or our top 6 in free agency, but they would certainly be more expensive, and that's money could be allocated elsewhere. Luckily for us, we have a few guys in our top 9 in Hogz, Kuz and Podz that are making pennies, which is what you need to be successful. Unfortunately, that's counteracted by the number of bad contracts we have. OEL ain't going anywhere, and Myers is a good enough player that we should find a taker for him without retention imo, but we have to find a way to ship Dicky and Poolman out of here.

Edited July 2, 2022 by 48MPHSlapShot

[BlastPast]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes but he didn't BUILD those teams.  The core was already in place.  Did Gillis draft the Sedins, Kesler, Edler, Bieksa, did he sign Burrows as a UFA, did he trade for Luongo?

You are wasting your time there. But to answer your OP, the obvious biggest need is a top-tier right-side defenseman. Unfortunately, that might be the hardest get in the league. Things like a 3C and some improved winger depth are more easily attainable.  If Miller gets traded ( I assume he will) then filling his absence will be another need. Some of these needs will certainly -- at least potentially-- be addressed via the return in the Miller trade. I think one thing that gets underrated is the potential for endogenous growth. There are some key players who are U24 and therefore have the potential for further improvement. There also aren't any players, at this point, who are well over 30, so a huge drop-off is less likely from those players (possible, but not like a 35+-year-old). 

 

As for addressing the team's most pressing need, the problem is scarcity. I see posts from people with very vague solutions to this problem. Trade (insert player name) for a top 4 right-side defenseman. Clear cap space and use 4 million on a .....  Comments like these. I think it's reductive thinking like this that leads many people to underestimate how difficult larger-end problem solving is. 

[EdgarM]

13 minutes ago, Nucklefuts said:

Pick. You wouldn't get a good player. Probly only gets you a 5th round or later with his cap. 

 

I just think his career is almost over.

 

His replacement would bring size and grit, but wouldn't replace his goals.

??? His point production has been pretty much the same the entire time he has been with us and his career is almost over? He's 29?

Right now, he is about the only one who brings any kind of size and grit in the top 9.

He is the least of our worries at this point.

[Pears]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

Ok I'll let you in on this really cool secret apparently Canucks fans don't know. You literally can't upgrade a single one of the players you just named for their cap hit. You can maybe find different equivalent players for Pearson/Myers with different strengths and different flaws. 

 

If you're trading Miller/Garland you're making the team worse now in the hopes of making it better in the future. If you make the team worse now I think Horvat likely walks and you rebuild focusing around Pete Hughes Pod Hog. Suddenly we are Jim Benning overpaying for grinders to prop the kids up again.

 

Honestly I really truly feel the player that had the best return in terms of value was Brock Boeser. 6.65m is a lot of cap I feel for that amount of money there are not only equivalent but players who would be a better fit in terms of position and play style available and also return an asset on Brocks rights. 

I agree that’s a fair point. I probably should have worded it a bit better like Pearson/Myers out for cap space and Miller/Garland for current and future assets.