Baggins Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, hammertime said: Depends how you make the playoffs. Is it sustainable? It's always one step at a time. You have to make the playofs, no matter how, before you can contend. Sustainable is the moves you make when you get there. The two biggest parts to sustaining is: 1 - drafting well to keep low cost quality players being added to replace high cost players you can't keep 2 - making smart trades and ufa signings to address needs. Every contender loses players to free agency. As near as I can tell the best formula for sustained contention is get there really fast while your best players are really young. It's the reason I said Benning just tanking the team from the beggining would be pointless. Sure we'd draft a few impact players those first few years but we'd also waste years of their careers while replacing the rest of the team. We got a short window with the Sedins because it took so long to build a team around them. Chicago and Pittsburgh had long windows because a lot was already in place before drafting their best players. Then they rode those high end players and maintained really replacing those they couldn't keep. That's the recipe for sustained contention. Look at the Leafs. They're still not really viewed as a true contender and Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are 24,25 and 26. And Shanny had a better starting point than Benning did. If they want a couple of stretches contending they really need to get there soon now. Both Chicago and Pittsburgh became contenders when their very best players were 24 and younger. This is why I've maintained it's better to get your best players at the end of a rebuild rather than the beggining. You get a much longer window to contend. Really, there is no such thing as a fast rebuild and there's no magic formula to becoming a contender. It's a combination of start moves with some luck added in. One thing there certainly is though is teams tanking for top talent and then failing to build around them and having to start over. With 32 teams teams it's not easy to get there or stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Baggins said: It's always one step at a time. You have to make the playofs, no matter how, before you can contend. Sustainable is the moves you make when you get there. The two biggest parts to sustaining is: 1 - drafting well to keep low cost quality players being added to replace high cost players you can't keep 2 - making smart trades and ufa signings to address needs. Every contender loses players to free agency. As near as I can tell the best formula for sustained contention is get there really fast while your best players are really young. It's the reason I said Benning just tanking the team from the beggining would be pointless. Sure we'd draft a few impact players those first few years but we'd also waste years of their careers while replacing the rest of the team. We got a short window with the Sedins because it took so long to build a team around them. Chicago and Pittsburgh had long windows because a lot was already in place before drafting their best players. Then they rode those high end players and maintained really replacing those they couldn't keep. That's the recipe for sustained contention. Look at the Leafs. They're still not really viewed as a true contender and Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are 24,25 and 26. And Shanny had a better starting point than Benning did. If they want a couple of stretches contending they really need to get there soon now. Both Chicago and Pittsburgh became contenders when their very best players were 24 and younger. This is why I've maintained it's better to get your best players at the end of a rebuild rather than the beggining. You get a much longer window to contend. Really, there is no such thing as a fast rebuild and there's no magic formula to becoming a contender. It's a combination of start moves with some luck added in. One thing there certainly is though is teams tanking for top talent and then failing to build around them and having to start over. With 32 teams teams it's not easy to get there or stay there. Need a 2nd wave of youth on elc's. We push for playoffs Miller walks UFA or we sign him to a ghastly contract and we have no money left for Bo. 1 step fwd 2 back. vs Trade Miller fill the cupboards draft high this year take a step back to take 2 forward. Edited July 17, 2022 by hammertime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, hammertime said: Need a 2nd wave of youth on elc's. We push for playoffs Miller walks UFA or we sign him to a ghastly contract and we have no money left for Bo. 1 step fwd 2 back. vs Trade Miller fill the cupboards take a step back to take 2 forward. why do we have to take any steps back? Sign Bo first, then Miller. Move Myers next year if we need to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 minute ago, JM_ said: why do we have to take any steps back? Sign Bo first, then Miller. Move Myers next year if we need to. Seems like thats the plan so we will see how it shakes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 A team's identity doesn't just appear from nothing and it can't be assigned from on high. That identity comes through playing winning hockey and practicing the habits that make the probability of winning more likely. That's when other teams decide that the Canucks are a tough team to play against because they are anfast, skilled and physical group that is hard on the forecheck and defensively responsible. That's when and how this team's identity will emerge and not until. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Why are we calling it team identity when we mean the style of play. The best teams change their style of play according to whom they are playing. The tops team are able to play any form of game that is thrown at them. Colorado won because along with their speed and skill game, they were also able to play a heavy checking game with overall team defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 42 minutes ago, hammertime said: Need a 2nd wave of youth on elc's. We push for playoffs Miller walks UFA or we sign him to a ghastly contract and we have no money left for Bo. 1 step fwd 2 back. vs Trade Miller fill the cupboards draft high this year take a step back to take 2 forward. Unlikely we'll get a high pick for Miller. How is it better for a rebuilding team to have "old Miller" than it is for us coming out of a rebuild? The reality is if you want good players you'll have to pay for them. As much as I like Bo, Miller is the better player. I like Boeser as well, but Miller is the better player. Trading him for prospects & picks could be a big step backwards with no step forward. Picks and prospects don't come with guarantees. If he's traded there better be a legitimate top 4 d-man in the return imo. Otherwise you're just rolling the dice. I'm not opposed to trading anybody. And I do mean anybody. If there is a good return. Trading for prospects and picks is a rebuilding move. This team needs to be building. Otherwise we're just wasting years of our good players. How many more years do you think Bo wants to wait just to make the playoffs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undrafted Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Maybe they have a secret identity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hammertime Posted July 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, Undrafted said: Maybe they have a secret identity 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 Forward group, esp top 6 is beyond soft. Our defense is soft. We may sneak into playoffs but unless demko stands on his head, we are going to get wrecked. Alvin has to bring in some more size and nastiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieVedder Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Undrafted said: Maybe they have a secret identity Youll never guess my secret identity https://youtu.be/NfFKwylOsLU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 2 hours ago, hammertime said: Need a 2nd wave of youth on elc's. We push for playoffs Miller walks UFA or we sign him to a ghastly contract and we have no money left for Bo. 1 step fwd 2 back. vs Trade Miller fill the cupboards draft high this year take a step back to take 2 forward. the teams that want miller are going to have 1st round pick around 20-32 and prospects i don't see that as filling the cupboards . We are not trading miller and getting a top 5 pick out of it . i rather trade Bo and get the same 1st round pick and a prospect and slap the C on Miller . I like BO but if a culture change is needed Bo could be the one to go . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, the grinder said: the teams that want miller are going to have 1st round pick around 20-32 and prospects i don't see that as filling the cupboards . We are not trading miller and getting a top 5 pick out of it . i rather trade Bo and get the same 1st round pick and a prospect and slap the C on Miller . I like BO but if a culture change is needed Bo could be the one to go . Bo wants to be here. Does Miller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) Edit pointless banter. Edited July 17, 2022 by hammertime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 winning games needs to be their identity 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canuck #12 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 3 hours ago, hammertime said: Edit pointless banter. Could you please edit out the rest of this thread too?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, ilduce39 said: Yeah, I don’t buy being down on the actual team going into next year. Played awesome down the stretch and improved this offseason. Add in a year of cohesion as a team and under Bruce and it should be a fun group to watch. Twitter’s most recent sports cliche to obnoxiously mock is the “anything can happen” line but with Demko I think it stands. The team is a contender up front and in net… and if Hughes and OEL are playing 50 minutes a game I think we’re more dangerous than people give credit for. Get that we want to win the cup. Being a Canuck fan takes some constitution if your the type that can't stand not getting what you want. Only Buffalo and Toronto come close to the fan suffrage we've had over the years. Losing two finals in game 7, Maki, Bourdon, Ryp, losing the lottery and a HHOFer as a result to start the franchise, Moore scuttling our best WCE era chance (Cloutier was actually very good that year but people don't remember that) and Bertuzzi doing something absolutely cowardly im sure he regrets to this day...Bure leaving, Messier era ... JB era lol is a cake walk compared to the 80's! At least back then most teams made the playoffs by default though, but nobody could compete with EDM and CAL back then (and will add Otto kicking it in, that Vancouver team had a chance to go all the way as well).....two riots, one somewhat understandable and organic, the second one just pure embarrassment (whiny dissidents, poor losers). If you don't have thick skin, maybe choose a US team that doesn't have state tax to cheer for. With US slowly creeping up and Canada slowly creeping down, at some point there will be more US players then Canadian ones, and it will be tougher and tougher to attract UFAs (it already is - bye bye Johnny despite a better CAL offer ... covid changed things and doubt it's going back - UFAs in Canada ... have to pay extra for them)....it's not going to get easier on this front. "8 long years" lol. Barely scratches the top ten worst franchise moments. And will say i actually haven't been excited about a group of young players since McLean, Linden, Bure, Ronning, Gelinas, and Nedved. Demko, Horvat, BB, QHs, EP, Podz ... What happens next for sure matters, as do playoffs next. Team needs some reps in that regard - and Horvat looks to have a lot of Linden in him from limited sample sizes ... as in ups his performances. EP/QHs we're just fine first time out as well. We shouldn't give up hope. Why not this year for a cup? A couple break outs and we'd be a really really tough team to beat. And maybe Allvin can do a Quin like trade or two. And grow some callouses. This team is one of my favourite pass-times. It's got a very rich history despite never winning a cup too. Best final since expansion (THN voted on this and a clear winner, 1994), just added 3 HHOFers from the best team never to win a cup (also THN reported)...and good chance the only thing we have to look forward to after the regular season isn't the draft for a length of time IF Allvin and Co can do a great job of what's next. Our identity as a fan to me should be more like a survivor movie. Don't like victim culture, let's try our best not to do that! Why not a Rocky movie instead? Maybe fourth times the charm, and just maybe this is our year and nobody even knows it (94 ... nobody knew that either!) All GMs in the league know how close things are and how much luck plays into it as well...Parity. It's razor thin. COL is a total fluke. Of course you have to be good to be lucky, but what Sakic did also came out of nowhere as well. Only God has the foresight he had lol. And well, it turns out sub-par goaltending is enough if the rest is in place. And history has already shown us, that great goaltending and average everything else, has also won multiple cups. So buckle up and grow more callouses without becoming callous, and enjoy the ride! I much prefer our identity to be as a team/ fanbase that doesn't give up. And have accepted that our Swedish link is a competitive advantage. That we need. Edited July 17, 2022 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 12 hours ago, Timråfan said: Agree, but a fair few here are stuck with the images of punching the face and nothing happened. Same fans that drooled to get Ferland because of similar negative images stuck in their head. Some people can’t handle negative images. It breaks them inside out. Think you don't understand... it was the lack of reaction from the whole team, that frustrated the fans.... Sedins are not fighting, but surely somebody else could have put Ratboy over their knee and spanked him. Boston got wind in their sails knowing they could beat the Canucks players without any reaction, neither from the players nor the refs... You are opening up a wound that likely won't ever heal entirely. The first bit of retaliation gave Rome a 4 game suspension... The team got butt f'd by the league... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post J-23 Posted July 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2022 All this identity $&!# is overrated. You either win games or lose games. 2 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 27 minutes ago, spook007 said: Think you don't understand... it was the lack of reaction from the whole team, that frustrated the fans.... Sedins are not fighting, but surely somebody else could have put Ratboy over their knee and spanked him. Boston got wind in their sails knowing they could beat the Canucks players without any reaction, neither from the players nor the refs... You are opening up a wound that likely won't ever heal entirely. The first bit of retaliation gave Rome a 4 game suspension... The team got butt f'd by the league... That was always the Sedin strategy. Take the lumps and then hurt them on the Powerplay. But the Refs put their whistles away in the finals and they didn't adjust in time. I've seen angry Danny Sedin before, he should have unleashed the wrath on Mchand 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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