Truck driver in deadly Humboldt Broncos bus crash granted day parole

[nuckin_futz]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Do you mean as a “symbol”?  The guy is responsible for 16 deaths, and terrible injuries to many others.  I don’t see him as an “advocate” for anything.  He should be locked away permanently.  

You're driven by your need to avenge the lost lives. I'm driven by preventing the next busload of kids from getting wiped out. The trucking industry in this country is still a mess and ripe for another accident of this magnitude. Use this guy as an advocate to bring about change to the industry. I am 100% certain the people who run these trucking companies want him gone and forgotten so the spotlight isn't on them and they can continue operating in an irresponsible manner..

 

 

 

[CBH1926]

23 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Hmmmm....I'm struggling to imagine a scenario by which a truck driver rolls up to an intersection and decides, "Well, if I kill someone, I'll only serve 3 of 8 years, so what the hell...."

 

I get the outrage from some folks here...you see the result of Sidhu's actions and three years just doesn't seem adequate, but keeping him in jail does nothing but make people feel better about the entire situation. Once you start making legal decisions based on feelings, you've lost the plot, IMHO....

More along lines, if someone is driving exhausted they might be more likely to pull over.
Or if you feel like you were unprepared for trucking job, maybe you get another job because you don’t want to end up in the same situation.

 

Generally for vehicular homicides you get slap on the wrist in Canada, drunk, negligent, accidental it doesn’t really matter. Marco Muzzo was intoxicated  when he killed 4 people in Ontario, including 3 kids, he served 5 years.

So I guess getting 8 years by Canadian standards is a lot.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by CBH1926

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

More along lines, if someone is driving exhausted they might be more likely to pull over.
Or if you feel like you were unprepared for trucking job, maybe you get another job because you don’t want to end up in the same situation.

 

Generally for vehicular homicides you get slap on the wrist in Canada, drunk, negligent, accidental it doesn’t really matter. Marco Muzzo was intoxicated  when he killed 4 people in Ontario, including 3 kids, he served 5 years.

So I guess getting 8 years by Canadian standards is a lot.

I still disagree that serving the full 8 years instead of the 3 that he served is going to make it more likely that they do so.

 

Or more accurately, I don't think the fact the he only served 3 years makes it more likely that someone else would repeat his mistake.

[CBH1926]

20 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I still disagree that serving the full 8 years instead of the 3 that he served is going to make it more likely that they do so.

 

Or more accurately, I don't think the fact the he only served 3 years makes it more likely that someone else would repeat his mistake.

So in your opinion was the punishment too harsh, too lenient or just about right?

[stawns]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:14 AM, -DLC- said:

Sentenced in 2019 to 8 years and he's out after 3? Our justice system is all messed up....why do we call it 8 years then? Let's keep it real here.

 

This is a slap in the face to the families who lost their children/loved ones. As they said, they're serving life sentences.

 

I do feel for the driver to some degree....it seems his employer also shares some guilt here.  But we're all responsible for our actions and this guy's wiped out a busload of kids....that's the reality here. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, even if it wasn't intentional.

 

I will say, trucks in general need to slow the hell down and take more care....we have dump trucks and recycling trucks just flying down the road here and it's a disaster waiting to happen. These drivers need to remember how long it takes them to stop in these vehicles.

 

 

I don't know, this guy didn't do it on purpose and he'll never get over it or ever live it down.........making him sit in jail likely pales in comparison to his everyday hell he probably deals with.  He was an under trained, unaware, negligent driver, but he wasnt intoxicated and he's  not a criminal in any other sense.

 

I don't see the point in creating one more victim out this tragedy........let him try to build some kind of productive life and be a contributing member of society.  That's about the best we could hope for out of this.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by stawns

[RUPERTKBD]

13 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

So in your opinion was the punishment too harsh, too lenient or just about right?

Well, not being a jurist, I don't know what the norm is for vehicular manslaughter cases. In general, I tend to defer to the court's decision. If it were up to me, I'd prefer he spend a couple more years in jail, but is not deported afterward.

 

All of that being said, whether or not I think the sentence is adequate is not what we were disagreeing on. It is whether or not Sidhu serving out the balance of the 8 year sentence would affect the decision making of other truckers facing similar situations. I disagree with your assertion that it would. In that regard, I think 3 years, (coupled with the horrific result of Sidhu's actions) is about right as a deterrent.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Well, not being a jurist, I don't know what the norm is for vehicular manslaughter cases. In general, I tend to defer to the court's decision. If it were up to me, I'd prefer he spend a couple more years in jail, but is not deported afterward.

 

All of that being said, whether or not I think the sentence is adequate is not what we were disagreeing on. It is whether or not Sidhu serving out the balance of the 8 year sentence would affect the decision making of other truckers facing similar situations. I disagree with your assertion that it would. In that regard, I think 3 years, (coupled with the horrific result of Sidhu's actions) is about right as a deterrent.

 

his deportation does send a message that might reverberate through the driver community though. They all know they are getting away with fast and inadequate training. Maybe knowing they can get kicked out will help some of them pay more attention and/or drive safer. This group isn't responsible for all driving issues of course but it is one way of sending a message to the companies as well.

 

But until there's actual accountability for companies and far better training I think we'll see more preventable incidents. 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

24 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

his deportation does send a message that might reverberate through the driver community though. They all know they are getting away with fast and inadequate training. Maybe knowing they can get kicked out will help some of them pay more attention and/or drive safer. This group isn't responsible for all driving issues of course but it is one way of sending a message to the companies as well.

 

But until there's actual accountability for companies and far better training I think we'll see more preventable incidents.

Maybe. But that assumes that the three years in jail and the fact that multiple people died as a result of his actions will not.

 

Personally, I think Futz's idea of using Sidhu to advocate for driver safety would be a far more effective deterrent, but I'm viewing this through the lens of making sure that something like this doesn't happen again, rather than making sure Sidhu is punished to the fullest extent....

[Gurn]

A point to note-After watching the W-5 story;

This kind of leapt out at me- neither Sidhu or his wife ended up in jobs they had training for, but had to take what they could get. 

He has a degree in commerce, she has one in nursing.

Wonder how much different things would be if they were able/allowed to use their previous education?

[JM_]

15 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Maybe. But that assumes that the three years in jail and the fact that multiple people died as a result of his actions will not.

 

Personally, I think Futz's idea of using Sidhu to advocate for driver safety would be a far more effective deterrent, but I'm viewing this through the lens of making sure that something like this doesn't happen again, rather than making sure Sidhu is punished to the fullest extent....

I don't see why those two things have to be exclusive of each other 

[RUPERTKBD]

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I don't see why those two things have to be exclusive of each other 

They don't, but the conversation I was having with CBH, (that you chimed in on) was based on his complaint about Sidhu not serving the entire 8 years and his assertion that had he done so, it might prevent a similar incident.

 

My belief is that 5 more years in jail (and a deportation, for that matter) will not move that needle. In fact, (and I have mentioned that before) I believe that deportation could have the opposite effect. Sidhu will be sent back to India, the various authorities will pat themselves on the back and say "justice is done". Eventually, it will all be forgotten and the underlying issue of poor training and lax regulation won't be addressed in a meaningful way.

 

Or, we could do as Futz suggested and have Mr Sidhu act as an advocate for change. I know this wouldn't make the "string him up!" crowd happy, but in the end, I think you have to decided which is more important.

 

I've already decided....

[JM_]

32 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

They don't, but the conversation I was having with CBH, (that you chimed in on) was based on his complaint about Sidhu not serving the entire 8 years and his assertion that had he done so, it might prevent a similar incident.

 

My belief is that 5 more years in jail (and a deportation, for that matter) will not move that needle. In fact, (and I have mentioned that before) I believe that deportation could have the opposite effect. Sidhu will be sent back to India, the various authorities will pat themselves on the back and say "justice is done". Eventually, it will all be forgotten and the underlying issue of poor training and lax regulation won't be addressed in a meaningful way.

 

Or, we could do as Futz suggested and have Mr Sidhu act as an advocate for change. I know this wouldn't make the "string him up!" crowd happy, but in the end, I think you have to decided which is more important.

 

I've already decided....

well, at risk of more chiming in, I'd have to wonder who is going to support Sidhu in that activity? 

 

not sure where I said string him up?

[RUPERTKBD]

23 minutes ago, JM_ said:

well, at risk of more chiming in, I'd have to wonder who is going to support Sidhu in that activity? 

 

not sure where I said string him up?

Again, you joined a convo in progress. There were several people upset that he wouldn't serve out the full 8 years. That's who I was referring to.

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Again, you joined a convo in progress.

isn't that the point of a discussion board 

 

7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

There were several people upset that he wouldn't serve out the full 8 years. That's who I was referring to.

its a very reasonable position to take to have Sidhu do his full time, and be deported. There's no mistreatment of him in that whatsoever, given his scale of negligence.

 

I don't see how he'd be any more of a successful advocate than all the families that lost kids, and the people still trying to recover from it. Moe gave all of them the middle finger already, not sure how Sidhu moves that needle. 

 

I don't personally understand the empathy for Sidhu but thats fine, people can feel how they want about him but imo he's getting off quite light from a justice system pov. 

[nuckin_futz]

42 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I don't see how he'd be any more of a successful advocate than all the families that lost kids, and the people still trying to recover from it. Moe gave all of them the middle finger already, not sure how Sidhu moves that needle. 

 

I don't personally understand the empathy for Sidhu but thats fine, people can feel how they want about him but imo he's getting off quite light from a justice system pov. 

He's an insider in the industry who could personally attest to all that is wrong and what needs to change.

 

The empathy comes from the fact that he was inadequately trained. He was put in a situation where he was at a disadvantage. Since the accident there hasn't been one iota of "woe is me" from Sidhu. He has never missed an opportunity to take full responsibility for his actions. He plead guilty to every charge. Thus avoiding putting the families through a trial where forensic evidence of what happened to their children's bodies would have presented.

 

I realize this will sound a little weird but post accident he's been the model of what we expect a Canadian to be, honest, accountable and contrite. Deporting him would be a missed opportunity to better the country.

Edited July 26, 2022 by nuckin_futz

[nuckin_futz]

2 hours ago, gurn said:

A point to note-After watching the W-5 story;

This kind of leapt out at me- neither Sidhu or his wife ended up in jobs they had training for, but had to take what they could get. 

He has a degree in commerce, she has one in nursing.

Wonder how much different things would be if they were able/allowed to use their previous education?

We have a merit based immigration system. We want educated people to come here and give preference to them. But when they do come here we nullify their qualifications and make them take crappy jobs that are beneath their education levels. I'm really not sure how this makes sense.

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

isn't that the point of a discussion board 

 

its a very reasonable position to take to have Sidhu do his full time, and be deported. There's no mistreatment of him in that whatsoever, given his scale of negligence.

 

I don't see how he'd be any more of a successful advocate than all the families that lost kids, and the people still trying to recover from it. Moe gave all of them the middle finger already, not sure how Sidhu moves that needle. 

 

I don't personally understand the empathy for Sidhu but thats fine, people can feel how they want about him but imo he's getting off quite light from a justice system pov. 

It is, but that was never in dispute.

 

What was being claimed is that the added sentence length and deportment would result in fewer incidents like this in the future. I disagreed.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said:

He's an insider in the industry who could personally attest to all that is wrong and what needs to change.

 

The empathy comes from the fact that he was inadequately trained. He was put in a situation where he was at a disadvantage. Since the accident there hasn't been one iota of "woe is me" from Sidhu. He has never missed an opportunity to take full responsibility for his actions. He plead guilty to every charge. Thus avoiding putting the families through a trial where forensic evidence of what happened to their children's bodies would have presented.

 

I realize this will sound a little weird but post accident he's been the model of what we expect a Canadian to be, honest, accountable and contrite. Deporting him would be a missed opportunity to better the country.

I guess where we may differ on it is, I don't see him being put in a situation, he chose a situation to be in. I'm also not inclined to give him a lot of extra credit for acting how he should have post accident, the system cut his jail time as reward for that. 

 

You could be correct, maybe he would be a good voice for change but to me if the kids and families weren't enough I just have real doubts about how effective he'd be abasing someone like Moe in SK.

 

53 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

It is, but that was never in dispute.

 

What was being claimed is that the added sentence length and deportment would result in fewer incidents like this in the future. I disagreed.

it is a bit like trying to prove a negative, you can never really know how much of a deterrent something is. 

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

I guess where we may differ on it is, I don't see him being put in a situation, he chose a situation to be in. I'm also not inclined to give him a lot of extra credit for acting how he should have post accident, the system cut his jail time as reward for that. 

 

You could be correct, maybe he would be a good voice for change but to me if the kids and families weren't enough I just have real doubts about how effective he'd be abasing someone like Moe in SK.

 

it is a bit like trying to prove a negative, you can never really know how much of a deterrent something is. 

True. That's why it's okay for us to disagree.

[RUPERTKBD]

I'll start by stating that I have no idea of what caused this tragedy, but it sounds sadly familiar....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/at-least-10-dead-after-serious-crash-near-carberry-man-source-says/ar-AA1cBrZ0?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=51bce224aa2b4f46a0f47caaf075c7f7&ei=14
 

Quote

 

At least 10 people are dead after a serious crash between a semi-trailer truck and a Handi-Transit vehicle near the town of Carberry in southwestern Manitoba, a source tells CBC News.

 

A CBC reporter at the scene says there are multiple tarps on the ground close to where the collision happened at the intersection of the Trans-Canada Highway and Highway 5, just north of Carberry.

 

The Brandon fire department told CBC News the crash involved a semi-trailer truck and a Handi-Transit vehicle.

RCMP said they'll provide more details about the crash at a news conference featuring representatives from Shared Health and the province at 4:30 p.m. CT.

The response to the crash included 14 critical care medical crew, two helicopters and two planes from the STARS air ambulance service.

STARS spokesperson Blake Robert said that's one of the service's biggest responses ever.

"This is sort of in line with the similar large incidents that we responded to in the past, such as the tragedy with Humboldt Broncos, the incident in James Smith Cree Nation," Robert said.

 

Robert didn't know yet exactly how many people were transported for medical care after STARS was called just after noon. The helicopters typically take patients to Winnipeg's Health Sciences Centre, he said. 

 

A spokesperson for Shared Health said a mass casualty response is underway, with several Manitoba hospitals prepared to receive patients from the crash, including Health Sciences Centre Winnipeg (HSC) and others in the Prairie Mountain and Winnipeg health regions.

Other patients may need to be relocated to create capacity at HSC, which is the province's largest hospital.

 

Emergency department, surgical and critical care teams at HSC and the Brandon Regional Health Centre are prepared for incoming patients, the spokesperson said in an email.

Rooms for families have been established at both hospitals. Family members seeking information from HSC are asked to contact the HSC switchboard at 204-787-3661 or 1-877-499-8774, while those seeking information from the Brandon hospital are asked to call 204-578-4080.

 

A witness to the aftermath of the crash said he saw a burning vehicle in a ditch just after noon on Thursday.

John Proven also saw a semi-trailer truck nearby with a burned front end, and said the burning vehicle in the ditch looked like a van.

He saw about 20 police vehicles and seven or eight ambulances at the scene.

 

"I have never seen an accident that big," Proven told CBC News in a phone interview. "It's a little bit shocking."

Manitoba RCMP said they've deployed all available resources to the crash, with units from across the western part on the province there to help along with other first responders.

Major crime services will take over the investigation, Mounties said.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by RUPERTKBD