(Discussion) Which two RHD do you think the Canucks will acquire during the offseason?

[DownUndaCanuck]

I'm a bit nervous that we're going to cap dump Garland for a 2nd or 3rd round pick and sign Klingberg to a 5y x 6M deal. We'll still be around 3M over the cap though so may have to use the pick we get back from Garland to cap-dump Poolman and Dickinson.

 

My ideal move would be a lateral Garland for defenceman trade. I know NJD just acquired Marino but a move like that would be ideal and there are plenty of average top-4 defencemen out there we could target.

 

A Miller trade seems pretty much impossible now and we're looking like we might just start the season with Poolman or Schenn playing alongside Hughes, but we're still a good 2-3M over the cap so something's got to give.

[JamesB]

21 hours ago, JM_ said:

Klingberg 6x6.

 

That's the Loui deal 

Yes, this would be like the Loui contract. Maybe not quite as bad, but close.

 

Not sure why there is enthusiasm or even interest in Klingberg, I realize that +/- can be a misleading stat but in his case I don't think it is. His +/- last year was an atrocious -28 and is -53 over the  past 3 years combined.

 

More significantly, his even strength expected goals against (xGA) per 60 was 3.22 -- dead last on the Stars among players who played at least 100 minutes. and far worse than any Canuck D.

 

And that is despite getting a high proportion of O-zone starts and not particularly tough minutes.  

 

Yes, he is good offensively, but not good enough to offset his weak defensive play. 

 

He is tall but on the slim side and contributes very little to the physical game.

 

And the Canucks have 3 good puck-carriers with strong offensive on the left side. What they need on the right side is a guy who is strong defensively and can pair with Hughes (or OEL if Myers is traded).

 

I would rather have Myers than Klingberg.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by JamesB

[Ghostsof1915]

You won't get a great RHD via trade.

You have to draft and develop them.

 

[JM_]

6 hours ago, JamesB said:

Yes, this would be like the Loui contract. Maybe not quite as bad, but close.

 

Not sure why there is enthusiasm or even interest in Klingberg, I realize that +/- can be a misleading stat but in his case I don't think it is. His +/- last year was an atrocious -28 and is -53 over the  past 3 years combined.

 

More significantly, his expected goals against (xGA) per 60 was 3.22 -- dead last on the Stars among players who played at least 100 minutes. and far worse than any Canuck D.

 

And that is despite getting a high proportion of O-zone starts and not particularly tough minutes.  

 

Yes, he is good offensively, but not good enough to offset his weak defensive play. 

 

He is tall but on the slim side and contributes very little to the physical game.

 

And the Canucks have 3 good puck-carriers with strong offensive on the left side. What they need on the right side is a guy who is strong defensively and can pair with Hughes (or OEL if Myers is traded).

 

I would rather have Myers than Klingberg.

 

 

depends on what Bruce is trying to put together. If we're looking for more offence from the d, then it could be a good option and paired with OEL his production might be great. 

 

The Canucks haven't bent over backwards to move cap to bring him in tho. 

 

Interesting piece here on why Klingberg struggled defensively under Bowness - a more static defensive system (remind you of anyone?).

 

This does give some idea of how Bruce could get more out of Klingberg: https://www.defendingbigd.com/2022/1/19/22888025/opinion-john-klingberg-worth-every-penny-just-not-in-dallas-system-rick-bowness

Edited July 26, 2022 by JM_

[JamesB]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

depends on what Bruce is trying to put together. If we're looking for more offence from the d, then it could be a good option and paired with OEL his production might be great. 

 

The Canucks haven't bent over backwards to move cap to bring him in tho. 

 

Interesting piece here on why Klingberg struggled defensively under Bowness - a more static defensive system (remind you of anyone?).

 

This does give some idea of how Bruce could get more out of Klingberg: https://www.defendingbigd.com/2022/1/19/22888025/opinion-john-klingberg-worth-every-penny-just-not-in-dallas-system-rick-bowness

Thanks. Very interesting article. However, the thing that stuck out for me is that last year Klingberg had a negative number for wins above replacement as calculated by Evolving Hockey. That means he was not as good as a replacement level player -- a guy typically earning the league minimum. And, at age 30 (he turns 30 in August) he is not likely to be improving his game.

 

The theme of the article is that Klingberg would be better in a different defensive system that played to his strengths.  Maybe, But a D who is not able to adapt to playing effectively in different defensive systems is not worth signing to a big, long-term contract. And his career trajectory is just as likely to indicate that he started age-related decline relatively early. I also have reservations about his attitude, complaining about "not being appreciated". From the way he played last year he did not deserve a lot of appreciation. 

 

Also, the Canuck D is already relatively soft. They don't need another tall, soft, D who is not very good in his own end. In his prime he was a featured puck-carrying offensive D, but that role is already taken on the Canucks. 

 

A 6 x 5 or 6 x 6 contract (AAV x years) for him really would likely be a repeat of Louie. 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, JamesB said:

Thanks. Very interesting article. However, the thing that stuck out for me is that last year Klingberg had a negative number for wins above replacement as calculated by Evolving Hockey. That means he was not as good as a replacement level player -- a guy typically earning the league minimum. And, at age 30 (he turns 30 in August) he is not likely to be improving his game.

 

The theme of the article is that Klingberg would be better in a different defensive system that played to his strengths.  Maybe, But a D who is not able to adapt to playing effectively in different defensive systems is not worth signing to a big, long-term contract. And his career trajectory is just as likely to indicate that he started age-related decline relatively early. I also have reservations about his attitude, complaining about "not being appreciated". From the way he played last year he did not deserve a lot of appreciation. 

 

Also, the Canuck D is already relatively soft. They don't need another tall, soft, D who is not very good in his own end. In his prime he was a featured puck-carrying offensive D, but that role is already taken on the Canucks. 

 

A 6 x 5 or 6 x 6 contract (AAV x years) for him really would likely be a repeat of Louie. 

yep all legit concerns. We have seen though how a coach / wrong systems can bring down an entire team recently tho.....

 

Given where we are at, the options out there, etc. I'd be OK with something in the high 5's but 7's or 8's - eep. 

[Bobby James]

20 hours ago, Alflives said:

Adam Larsson via Meyers Trade.

 

I think this could be good. Seattle isn't trying to win now and Meyers only has 2 years left instead of 3, but more cap. We would have to add. 

 

I wonder if Meyers and Dipietro could get it done for Larsson. If not him then maybe it'll take a pick like a 2nd. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

I think this could be good. Seattle isn't trying to win now and Meyers only has 2 years left instead of 3, but more cap. We would have to add. 

 

I wonder if Meyers and Dipietro could get it done for Larsson. If not him then maybe it'll take a pick like a 2nd. 

Myers (1 million retained) + Dipietro for Larsson.

Wake up JR!  Get er done. 

[Hairy Kneel]

We're going to low ball it I think, Mayfield for Hoglander.

Unless we can leverage Severson. 

[BPA]

Trade with OTT

 

Garland + Myers

for

Zub + Gambrell + 4th (2024).

 

Canucks get cap space and serviceable C and RHD.

 

OTT gets the better players.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Wonder if we can snag Carlo, Boston have a bunch of defencemen and Zboril might be able to snag more top 4 minutes next season, whereas you know Carlo isn't taking any of McAvoy's minutes.

 

They could certainly use some depth forwards, they've got Zacha to sign with 4M in cap space. Garland + Hoglander + 2nd for Carlo? If they want to dump Foligno we could take him and leave off the 2nd.

Edited July 31, 2022 by DownUndaCanuck

[86Viking]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Wonder if we can snag Carlo, Boston have a bunch of defencemen and Zboril might be able to snag more top 4 minutes next season, whereas you know Carlo isn't taking any of McAvoy's minutes.

 

They could certainly use some depth forwards, they've got Zacha to sign with 4M in cap space. Garland + Hoglander + 2nd for Carlo? If they want to dump Foligno we could take him and leave off the 2nd.

To get Carlo we would have to send them JT with an extension in place.

[IBatch]

On 7/26/2022 at 7:07 AM, JM_ said:

depends on what Bruce is trying to put together. If we're looking for more offence from the d, then it could be a good option and paired with OEL his production might be great. 

 

The Canucks haven't bent over backwards to move cap to bring him in tho. 

 

Interesting piece here on why Klingberg struggled defensively under Bowness - a more static defensive system (remind you of anyone?).

 

This does give some idea of how Bruce could get more out of Klingberg: https://www.defendingbigd.com/2022/1/19/22888025/opinion-john-klingberg-worth-every-penny-just-not-in-dallas-system-rick-bowness

I lost the writer when he called him their "most productive  D in club history"... that of course, was Zubov, who could control the play in all 3 zones.    Kind of lost some credibility with that one comment.   Then comparing him to Josi.... well i do think he's got some bias going on. 

[JM_]

9 hours ago, IBatch said:

I lost the writer when he called him their "most productive  D in club history"... that of course, was Zubov, who could control the play in all 3 zones.    Kind of lost some credibility with that one comment.   Then comparing him to Josi.... well i do think he's got some bias going on. 

for us Klingberg was always a 'at the right price' kind of deal, and 7 mil per just isn't it. Which is fine, I still think we may see a Garland for d swap at some point. 

[Wolfgang Durst]

Jim Benning and his staff made the wrong call signing Tucker Poolman as a free agent in the offseason 2021. Cody Ceci would have been the far better option even though he gets a little more salary than Poolman (3,250.00 Ceci vs. Poolman 2,500.000). Ceci with great stats during the playoff's with Edmonton. Ceci and Holl being ranked in the upper right quarter surprised me the most when looking at this chart.

 

[smithers joe]

mukhamidullin and severson from nj.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Jim Benning and his staff made the wrong call signing Tucker Poolman as a free agent in the offseason 2021. Cody Ceci would have been the far better option even though he gets a little more salary than Poolman (3,250.00 Ceci vs. Poolman 2,500.000). Ceci with great stats during the playoff's with Edmonton. Ceci and Holl being ranked in the upper right quarter surprised me the most when looking at this chart.

 

I kept saying Ceci for two years ... kept getting "no way he sucks" lol...can't please some people.   Bargain guy given what you get.   

[Boknows08]

Miller for Severson, Sharangovich, Bahl. Move Dermott to rd. Or

 

Miller for Wahlstrom, Wilde, 2nd 

Garland, NY 2nd+? for Severson(extended)

[Chris12345]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:42 AM, Wolfgang Durst said:

Jim Benning and his staff made the wrong call signing Tucker Poolman as a free agent in the offseason 2021. Cody Ceci would have been the far better option even though he gets a little more salary than Poolman (3,250.00 Ceci vs. Poolman 2,500.000). Ceci with great stats during the playoff's with Edmonton. Ceci and Holl being ranked in the upper right quarter surprised me the most when looking at this chart.

 

Troy Stetcher lol.

[DownUndaCanuck]

St Louis are a bit stacked with heavy contracts on D. ROR and Tarasenkos deals are up next year.

 

Miller for Parayko? St Louis get 1M in cap relief for this season only, can re-sign Miller next year with some cap off the books and the Canucks get a 6M top RD to play with Hughes for the next say 3-5 years. Not a long term solution but a good short term one.