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Jake Virtanen found NOT GUILTY!

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1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

So, the onus is on the potential victim to avoid those rascally boys who will be boys? How about strict instruction as early as 13-14 years old for all players about sexual activity, consent, the dehumanizing effect of gang-assault and the dehumanizing effect of initiation rituals and hazing having to do with sexual activity? If you want to stop sexual assault, stop the assaulters, and to stop them you have to educate them.

I don't think you understood what my comment was about - my comment was about institutions (think Hockey Canada) protecting (some would argue, even encouraging) disgusting behaviour such as those sexual assaults. For Hockey Canada, their rationalization is probably similar to the "boys will be boys" argument that you mentioned. So if the institutions where these players belong to aren't going to police their members, maybe it's best to stay away, no?

You really think it's lack of education that's making them do these things? I have a lot of friends who coach minor hockey, and I know for a fact that there's actually a lot of training they have to take about educating players to treat girls well. These kids also go to school where they learn these things as well. They know that it's wrong. Why do they do it? My own observation is because growing up, the really good players know that the league and the teams will let them get away with a lot of bad behaviour compared to other not-as-good players - I saw this many times when my son (he was one of the better players) played minor hockey. Heck, you still see the double standards with professional players who are stars and those who aren't; even a respected organization like the Habs went ahead and drafted Mailloux in the first round. If you want to stop that behaviour, at this point, unfortunately, maybe the only recourse is punishment - institute lifetime bans that would extend to College and NHL.

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2 minutes ago, Vinny in Vancouver said:

I don't think you understood what my comment was about - my comment was about institutions (think Hockey Canada) protecting (some would argue, even encouraging) disgusting behaviour such as those sexual assaults. For Hockey Canada, their rationalization is probably similar to the "boys will be boys" argument that you mentioned.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have known hockey players from Junior through the pro level and have heard countless stories of puck bunnies and bizarre homoerotic sexual practices masked as initiation or hazing. I knew a player who was arrested when stepping off the team bus in another city on a charge of sexual assault. He later played for several seasons in the NHL where he was admired by all. I once asked an official from a WHL team what the club was doing about instruction about safe sex, sexual assault and consent. The guy was puzzled and said "Nothing". Now, that was two decades ago so maybe things are different now but there is one thing that to me is abundantly clear: the entire organizational roster of Hockey Canada needs to be terminated and replaced by people NOT connected to hockey and who are predisposed to rooting out abusers and the officials who tolerate it and turn a blind eye. It will take decades to undo what has taken a hundred years to develop, but it must be done.

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1 hour ago, Shayster007 said:

A coping mechanism for a brain trying to deal with a traumatic experience?  It's actually not peticularly uncommon for victims to lean in closer to abusers after a traumatic experience to try to rationalize past experiences. We obviously don't know what happened for sure, but I can tell you that how she handled the situation after wasn't as crazy as it sounds if you have some training and education on how humans handle trauma. 

 

Edit, what exactly is funny about this @Redline

Your textbook comments are what's funny to me.  What about the people that start screaming hysterically the next time they see their accuser,,shaking.. running away..many other examples. Hardly leaning in closer but running further away..seen it many times. I have no academic training like you do but I worked and volunteered at crisis centres for years at ground zero and had much more success with trauma victims than did the others with academic courses under their belt. She was caught in a web of lies and payed the price. Maybe she'll make her money in civil court. Her actions speak louder than words.and her trauma was not real imo. 

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4 minutes ago, Redline said:

Your textbook comments are what's funny to me.  What about the people that start screaming hysterically the next time they see their accuser,,shaking.. running away..many other examples. Hardly leaning in closer but running further away..seen it many times. I have no academic training like you do but I worked and volunteered at crisis centres for years at ground zero and had much more success with trauma victims than did the others with academic courses under their belt. She was caught in a web of lies and payed the price. Maybe she'll make her money in civil court. Her actions speak louder than words.and her trauma was not real imo. 

You worked at a trauma center but find laughing at how some people cope with trauma funny?

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I was only laughing at your typical textbook reaction if you properly read the context of my post but it seems like your only interested in honking your own horn. My compassion for true trauma victims is why I had much success and I didn't find it in any book.

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13 minutes ago, Redline said:

I was only laughing at your typical textbook reaction if you properly read the context of my post but it seems like your only interested in honking your own horn. My compassion for true trauma victims is why I had much success and I didn't find it in any book.

Honking my own horn? I offered up.my qualifications. So far the only honking was this post saying you had success.  Something that I may put into doubt after laughing at completely inappropriate times and not understanding different forms of trauma coping.

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I find it odd that even after he is found "Not Guilty" he is still being seen as "guilty ". 

It sounds like he has some character flaws and not an all round good role model as a "Hockey player" but he was found not guilty. 

I am not going to "assume" anything more and leave it at that. Some here seem to have a hate on for him and it was quite evident when his accuser first came forward. 

I found it quite interesting that she mentioned this right after he signed his big NHL contract extension and not Years before. 

I reserved my judgment on this until a verdict was decided.  

The evidence supported this with her testimony during the trial. 

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This is one of the very reason why every athlete on the planet should have their right to continue their career until proven guilty.   For every time he missed out the development is the every millions of dollars being lost and their career is so short.   They should not  have been bought out and it's a backward thinking that for every accusation is an immediately being put his career on hold.  Who knows that if he had continued his career, his skill would have been grown leap and bound.  If he is guilty then that would have been very different with provision of letting him go with no cap hit at all.   The NHL is in a mess with this type of moves, including buyouts.  

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3 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Honking my own horn? I offered up.my qualifications. So far the only honking was this post saying you had success.  Something that I may put into doubt after laughing at completely inappropriate times and not understanding different forms of trauma coping.

Isn't someone in your field supposed to be 'manifesting wellness' not initiating divisiveness? Especially on a chat board. Not very healing imo

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For the last couple of years we have all (wrongfully) assumed that Jake is guilty.  

 

Just wondering what happens now? Apologies?  

 

His career and character have been jeopardized. Is the only recourse to go the Johnny Depp route and sue for defamation?  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Shayster007 said:

I work in a field of healthcare that deals with both emotional and physical trauma. I'm getting it from my education in said healthcare, as well as what I teach my students at the post secondary level. Are you asking for my particular courses or textbooks or is my training and experience in both working and teaching trauma responses sufficient?

Horn honking like I said..You obviously don't understand what I was laughing at.. You...not trauma victims.

I totally understand that there are many ways to deal with trauma and in some cases you might have a valid point but if you teach you maybe should have expained the other alternatives too. I still stand behind my comments and think that in this particular case rhat it was a very unnatural reaction to her supposed sexual assault.

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38 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have known hockey players from Junior through the pro level and have heard countless stories of puck bunnies and bizarre homoerotic sexual practices masked as initiation or hazing. I knew a player who was arrested when stepping off the team bus in another city on a charge of sexual assault. He later played for several seasons in the NHL where he was admired by all. I once asked an official from a WHL team what the club was doing about instruction about safe sex, sexual assault and consent. The guy was puzzled and said "Nothing". Now, that was two decades ago so maybe things are different now but there is one thing that to me is abundantly clear: the entire organizational roster of Hockey Canada needs to be terminated and replaced by people NOT connected to hockey and who are predisposed to rooting out abusers and the officials who tolerate it and turn a blind eye. It will take decades to undo what has taken a hundred years to develop, but it must be done.

I always thought that hockey players had some of the weirdest things associated with the sport. I remember my friend telling me that rookies would have to get naked, squat down and pick up a pickle with their ass and then waddle over to the other end of the locker room.  

 

I have heard similar stories coming out of American football teams, etc. 

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Who knows what really happened. From what I read of the testimony it seems to me that he treated her like crap afterwards, like a hooker really and that led to her accusations later on. Seemed it was consensual at the time. Just my opinion. Glad he's not a Canuck anymore.

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42 minutes ago, Redline said:

Your textbook comments are what's funny to me.  What about the people that start screaming hysterically the next time they see their accuser,,shaking.. running away..many other examples. Hardly leaning in closer but running further away..seen it many times. I have no academic training like you do but I worked and volunteered at crisis centres for years at ground zero and had much more success with trauma victims than did the others with academic courses under their belt. She was caught in a web of lies and payed the price. Maybe she'll make her money in civil court. Her actions speak louder than words.and her trauma was not real imo. 

Thank you for being 100% sensible. 

 

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1 minute ago, Moe Knows said:

Who knows what really happened. From what I read of the testimony it seems to me that he treated her like crap afterwards, like a hooker really and that led to her accusations later on. Seemed it was consensual at the time. Just my opinion. Glad he's not a Canuck anymore.

Was he supposed to skip hockey practice to drive her home? He gave her cab fare because she had no money.  

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