2023 NHL Entry Draft

[HighOnHockey]

1 hour ago, Diamonds said:

If we look like we're going to draft around 10th come trade deadline I wouldn't be opposed to trying to trade a couple players for a late 1st and a 2nd and going all in on RHD. I'm very tired of close to 20 years with no decent RHD in the system. The last RHD we drafted that was actually a useful contributer to the Canucks was Bieksa...

 

If we draft all of Cam Allen, Hunter Brzustewicz, Oliver Bonk, and Jordan Tourigny/Aram Minnetian for example you'd think at least one of them has to turn out.

........ Or just use those assets to trade for an established RD?

[JustABandwagoner]

I hope Demko continues playing like this. Getting a top 4 pick is so JUICY. All 4 of them may be considered 1st overall in other drafts? 

[Warhippy]

25 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

........ Or just use those assets to trade for an established RD?

Who?

 

I have asked a few times.  Who?  What assets can we trade for an established top 4 RHD?  Myers alone is worth $6 million and that's 4 years ago, now a comparable players is $6+ million.  What assets can we give?  Our only available is our 1st round pick.

 

We are stuck drafting or hoping to draft and develop our in house RHD we have zero choice.  We have no cap space, we have no assets to trade for them and anything we can trade will create glaring holes we need to fill by trading other assets we don't have 

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, Tank4Bedard said:

I hope Demko continues playing like this. Getting a top 4 pick is so JUICY. All 4 of them may be considered 1st overall in other drafts? 

Trade Hughes to Arizona for their unprotected 2023 1st round pick and draft Bedard/Carlsson!!!!

[HighOnHockey]

7 minutes ago, Tank4Bedard said:

I hope Demko continues playing like this. Getting a top 4 pick is so JUICY. All 4 of them may be considered 1st overall in other drafts? 

Well, first of all, "draft year" is not the pertinent category for this player. As a late birthday, it is better to compare him against U19s, which puts him 5th all-time, behind Tomas Sandstrom, Markus Naslund, Daniel Sedin and William Nylander. Secondly, where is he getting 0.85 from? Shouldn't it be 0.78?

 

That said, I completely agree, all four would be favorites for 1st overall in most drafts. I said about the 2020 draft that I thought any of the top 4 could be in consideration for 1st overall in some (weaker) drafts. But I would put Carlsson and Fantilli up against the likes of MacKinnon, Dahlin, Eichel, Hughes, etc. not to even mention Bedard and Michkov.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, HighOnHockey said:

Well, first of all, "draft year" is not the pertinent category for this player. As a late birthday, it is better to compare him against U19s, which puts him 5th all-time, behind Tomas Sandstrom, Markus Naslund, Daniel Sedin and William Nylander. Secondly, where is he getting 0.85 from? Shouldn't it be 0.78?

 

That said, I completely agree, all four would be favorites for 1st overall in most drafts. I said about the 2020 draft that I thought any of the top 4 could be in consideration for 1st overall in some (weaker) drafts. But I would put Carlsson and Fantilli up against the likes of MacKinnon, Dahlin, Eichel, Hughes, etc. not to even mention Bedard and Michkov.

So we need 2 or 3 high picks; got it.

 

I'll make some calls  

[JustABandwagoner]

4 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Well, first of all, "draft year" is not the pertinent category for this player. As a late birthday, it is better to compare him against U19s, which puts him 5th all-time, behind Tomas Sandstrom, Markus Naslund, Daniel Sedin and William Nylander. Secondly, where is he getting 0.85 from? Shouldn't it be 0.78?

 

That said, I completely agree, all four would be favorites for 1st overall in most drafts. I said about the 2020 draft that I thought any of the top 4 could be in consideration for 1st overall in some (weaker) drafts. But I would put Carlsson and Fantilli up against the likes of MacKinnon, Dahlin, Eichel, Hughes, etc. not to even mention Bedard and Michkov.

Would u put Bedard and Michkov on the level of Mcdavid, Crosby, Matthews and Ovi? 

[HighOnHockey]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Who?

 

I have asked a few times.  Who?  What assets can we trade for an established top 4 RHD?  Myers alone is worth $6 million and that's 4 years ago, now a comparable players is $6+ million.  What assets can we give?  Our only available is our 1st round pick.

 

We are stuck drafting or hoping to draft and develop our in house RHD we have zero choice.  We have no cap space, we have no assets to trade for them and anything we can trade will create glaring holes we need to fill by trading other assets we don't have 

What the hell are you talking about? Miller, Horvat, Garland, Hoglander, a 1st, a 2nd, what about Lekkerimaki? Tons of options.

 

Tough to say exactly who might be available for RDs. You can look at team's sheets and speculate yourself, but certainly Damon Severson, Seth Jones. Maybe I'll do a little bit deeper dive later and try to come up with some more options.

[HighOnHockey]

2 hours ago, Tank4Bedard said:

Would u put Bedard and Michkov on the level of Mcdavid, Crosby, Matthews and Ovi? 

Would you consider Matthews in the same category you would the other three? As far as how they've turned out as players, I think if you're including Matthews you would have to add Kucherov, Malkin, Draisaitl. But that's going to be a different assessment than how they were viewed as prospects. I do think Michkov and Bedard will end up being in that wider category for sure. That big three is very tough to crack but I think both Michkov and Bedard are very, very close. Only hesitation I'd have for both is around their size. Crosby was drafted at 5'10, but he was producing in junior at a level well beyond what these guys have. Granted it was a bit of a different era in the Q. Bedard has consistently outproduced McDavid at the same age benchmarks, but McDavid is 6'1.

 

Anyways, I dunno. Point is I'm not gonna say 100% I think Michkov and Bedard are on the same level of prospects as Crosby, Ovechkin or McDavid, as those guys are pretty much the definition of generational talents for the new millennium.  But I will say this: I believe the generational tag is tragically over-used, and I didn't consider Matthews, Eichel, Hughes, Lafreniere to be generational, but I am comfortable applying the tag to both Michkov and Bedard.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

What the hell are you talking about? Miller, Horvat, Garland, Hoglander, a 1st, a 2nd, what about Lekkerimaki? Tons of options.

 

Tough to say exactly who might be available for RDs. You can look at team's sheets and speculate yourself, but certainly Damon Severson, Seth Jones. Maybe I'll do a little bit deeper dive later and try to come up with some more options.

Trade Miller then we need a 1st line LW

Trade Horvat then we need a 2a centre and F/O specialist

Garland?  We need a middle 6 winger that can put up 50+ points in a checking role

Trade our 1st and or 2nd this and or next year and we have zero hope at a future

Lekkerimaki?  Kicking futures down the road same as trading picks.

 

The issues are that your suggestions much like everyone else's along those lines, creates another massive hole we don't have the depth or assets to fill.  We can't trade picks because we desperately need them to hit.  The suggestion of somehow obtaining that top 2 or top 4 RHD we need with the little assets and cap space we have is not grounded in reality.

 

I've looked, hard and a lot.  We at this point can not even take on an ELC RHD without being over the cap the second our team is healthy which risks waivers.  We're kind of absolutely blinkered right now sadly.

 

Best options are looking towards the next 2-3 drafts.

 

2023 Bedard/Carlsson

2024 Kiviharju/Celebrini

2025 Misa/Brzustewicz

 

That fills a TON of holes and changes the futures of this team immensely.  As much as i want to pretend otherwise we're going to fight our way to the middle at best with this current core vs the rest of our division and conference as they exist.

[HighOnHockey]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Trade Miller then we need a 1st line LW

Trade Horvat then we need a 2a centre and F/O specialist

Garland?  We need a middle 6 winger that can put up 50+ points in a checking role

Trade our 1st and or 2nd this and or next year and we have zero hope at a future

Lekkerimaki?  Kicking futures down the road same as trading picks.

 

The issues are that your suggestions much like everyone else's along those lines, creates another massive hole we don't have the depth or assets to fill.  We can't trade picks because we desperately need them to hit.  The suggestion of somehow obtaining that top 2 or top 4 RHD we need with the little assets and cap space we have is not grounded in reality.

 

I've looked, hard and a lot.  We at this point can not even take on an ELC RHD without being over the cap the second our team is healthy which risks waivers.  We're kind of absolutely blinkered right now sadly.

 

Best options are looking towards the next 2-3 drafts.

 

2023 Bedard/Carlsson

2024 Kiviharju/Celebrini

2025 Misa/Brzustewicz

 

That fills a TON of holes and changes the futures of this team immensely.  As much as i want to pretend otherwise we're going to fight our way to the middle at best with this current core vs the rest of our division and conference as they exist.

Oh wow, I am actually pleasantly surprised with your reasonable response. I get where you're coming from now. I had in mind the folks around here (seems like an overwhelming majority) who are desperate to acquire a top 4 RD at any and all costs. Of course it can be done, but should it? Teams that draft well consistently and draft BPA end up with surpluses in certain areas that can be leveraged to fill needs.

 

Look out for Jordan Gavin for '25. I've watched three Tri-City games this year because I'm trying to get a read on Dragicevic. Based on being a 6'2 RD with his numbers I figured he should be a top ranked D, yet he's practically nowhere to be found on any prominent rankings. Anyway, Gavin steals the show every time. Also I haven't seen Ryan Roobroek play yet but seems very intriguing. 6'2 at 15 and he's been absolutely dominant everywhere he goes, and his older brother Dylan is 6'7.

[Warhippy]

52 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Oh wow, I am actually pleasantly surprised with your reasonable response. I get where you're coming from now. I had in mind the folks around here (seems like an overwhelming majority) who are desperate to acquire a top 4 RD at any and all costs. Of course it can be done, but should it? Teams that draft well consistently and draft BPA end up with surpluses in certain areas that can be leveraged to fill needs.

 

Look out for Jordan Gavin for '25. I've watched three Tri-City games this year because I'm trying to get a read on Dragicevic. Based on being a 6'2 RD with his numbers I figured he should be a top ranked D, yet he's practically nowhere to be found on any prominent rankings. Anyway, Gavin steals the show every time. Also I haven't seen Ryan Roobroek play yet but seems very intriguing. 6'2 at 15 and he's been absolutely dominant everywhere he goes, and his older brother Dylan is 6'7.

I can't see that far in to the future, I just have had my eyes on Misa for a while now for 25.  Brzustewicz as well.  Kids that just dominate while NOT being giants is far more impressive than someone being larger than the competition.

 

I have tried, like genuinely tried to find a way out of the situation the team is in.  I can't foresee one that doesn't create massive holes in another spot on the roster.  If we trade for an RHD, it will not be a young one; it will be a 25+ RHD that another team is willing to give up on.  It will cost a Horvat type player; we have 4 of those at forward.  remove one of Horvat, Pettersson, Miller or Garland and we've got nothing.  Everyone says get rid of Myers or OEL.  Then what?  We desperately need RHD and shuffling Myers out creates such a glaring hole it's large enough to drive a bus through.  OEL goes?  OK, well now we have nobody who can actually be that perfect middle of the road point getting defenseman that can actually defend.

 

To fill those holes would cost picks, because we have no prospects.

 

For me; as insane as it sounds; these next three years are the years to go all in.  Bedard/Michkov/Carlsson/Fantelli.  Then Kiviharju/Cebrelini.  Then Misa/Brzustewicz.  We really have no other options except fighting for the middle.  Not good enough for the playoffs, just good enough to avoid drafting top 10.  

 

Something has to give, with no assets; no cap space and a core that just can't get it done.

[HighOnHockey]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I can't see that far in to the future, I just have had my eyes on Misa for a while now for 25.  Brzustewicz as well.  Kids that just dominate while NOT being giants is far more impressive than someone being larger than the competition.

 

I disagree. It's an interesting question and I can see merit to both sides of the argument... but you're definitely wrong. Look at some of the best performances at WSIs - Savoie, Wright, Bedard, Holtz, Lafreniere. Yes, Byfield and Slafkovsky too, but it's not like there's a bunch of huge kids that light it up and then fizzle out later because all they had was size. Completely the opposite. You see kids who light the world on fire in youth hockey but then fizzle out because they're too small for the NHL. I get that sometimes there are kids who are just husky and bull their way around the ice plus they have a little bit of skill and so put up pretty good numbers, and maybe if they're 6' or 6'1 and you wonder whether they'll be able to play that way in the NHL. But if you're 6'2 at 15 and bulling your way around the ice in addition to elite skill and you're putting up historic numbers in youth hockey, if you're gonna end up at 6'7 then pretty good chance you'll be able to continue to bull your way around in the NHL.

 

 

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I have tried, like genuinely tried to find a way out of the situation the team is in.  I can't foresee one that doesn't create massive holes in another spot on the roster.  If we trade for an RHD, it will not be a young one; it will be a 25+ RHD that another team is willing to give up on.  It will cost a Horvat type player; we have 4 of those at forward.  remove one of Horvat, Pettersson, Miller or Garland and we've got nothing.  Everyone says get rid of Myers or OEL.  Then what?  We desperately need RHD and shuffling Myers out creates such a glaring hole it's large enough to drive a bus through.  OEL goes?  OK, well now we have nobody who can actually be that perfect middle of the road point getting defenseman that can actually defend.

 

To fill those holes would cost picks, because we have no prospects.

 

For me; as insane as it sounds; these next three years are the years to go all in.  Bedard/Michkov/Carlsson/Fantelli.  Then Kiviharju/Cebrelini.  Then Misa/Brzustewicz.  We really have no other options except fighting for the middle.  Not good enough for the playoffs, just good enough to avoid drafting top 10.  

 

Something has to give, with no assets; no cap space and a core that just can't get it done.

You're seriosuly exaggerating the doom and gloom here. The organization has made a lot of mistakes over the past few years for sure and is far from an ideal situation they're left with now. Probably the biggest mistake has been trading away high picks, but at least they've drafted very well with the high picks they have had, post-2016. It won't be fixed overnight, but there are some real quality pieces in place. I wouldn't mind a bit of a retool (or rebuild, I don't really care what you call it), but to trade away Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin would be simply ridiculous. I think they should keep Demko too. But if the season keeps going as it has, I wouldn't mind trading guys like Miller, Horvat, Garland, and get a young quality RD or two in the process.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[HighOnHockey]

@R3aL Cam Allen was -2 last night despite a 6-3 win, and another -2 tonight brings him to 5 points and -14 in 12 games on the year.

[Warhippy]

On 10/27/2022 at 11:10 PM, HighOnHockey said:

 

I disagree. It's an interesting question and I can see merit to both sides of the argument... but you're definitely wrong. Look at some of the best performances at WSIs - Savoie, Wright, Bedard, Holtz, Lafreniere. Yes, Byfield and Slafkovsky too, but it's not like there's a bunch of huge kids that light it up and then fizzle out later because all they had was size. Completely the opposite. You see kids who light the world on fire in youth hockey but then fizzle out because they're too small for the NHL. I get that sometimes there are kids who are just husky and bull their way around the ice plus they have a little bit of skill and so put up pretty good numbers, and maybe if they're 6' or 6'1 and you wonder whether they'll be able to play that way in the NHL. But if you're 6'2 at 15 and bulling your way around the ice in addition to elite skill and you're putting up historic numbers in youth hockey, if you're gonna end up at 6'7 then pretty good chance you'll be able to continue to bull your way around in the NHL.

 

 

You're seriosuly exaggerating the doom and gloom here. The organization has made a lot of mistakes over the past few years for sure and is far from an ideal situation they're left with now. Probably the biggest mistake has been trading away high picks, but at least they've drafted very well with the high picks they have had, post-2016. It won't be fixed overnight, but there are some real quality pieces in place. I wouldn't mind a bit of a retool (or rebuild, I don't really care what you call it), but to trade away Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin would be simply ridiculous. I think they should keep Demko too. But if the season keeps going as it has, I wouldn't mind trading guys like Miller, Horvat, Garland, and get a young quality RD or two in the process.

I dunno my dude.

 

I have watched this team commit to this for 40 years now.  This is more of the same.  Keep throwing spackle on the wall and hoping it doesn't collapse and when it does just throw a new sheet of wall over it and paint it.

 

Bedard isn't a big guy but he's a machine.  Next years kiviharju isn't large but wow.  Carlson this year is someone i'd love.  I feel that more average sized player sin jr have far less of a steeping stone/learning curve coming to the majors than overly developed large bodies that are successful in jr.  Because those average sized kids have already fought to make it while the larger bodies used their genetic gifts and never suffered the same adversity

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[hammertime]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:13 PM, HighOnHockey said:

........ Or just use those assets to trade for an established RD?

Can we trade Lekkerimaki for Bichsel?

Then do

EP2.0 for Kasper Kulonummi who is obliterating the u20 for Tappara

or 

Ty Young for Otto Salin

 

There were completely reasonable RHD to take with our picks. Trading for an established RHD will cost far more than we can afford to pay given the state of our franchise. 

 

 

 

[spook007]

5 hours ago, hammertime said:

Can we trade Lekkerimaki for Bichsel?

Then do

EP2.0 for Kasper Kulonummi who is obliterating the u20 for Tappara

or 

Ty Young for Otto Salin

 

There were completely reasonable RHD to take with our picks. Trading for an established RHD will cost far more than we can afford to pay given the state of our franchise. 

 

 

 

The fristrations are real Hammer... 

Last year were the year to go d-men, from our position. Llquorice may make it and be a good player, but that was not a position of need. Dmen, any dmen were... and 2 stood out (all be it LHD)  at our position. 
 

Next draft we'll likely be picking in the middle 10 somewhere, and if the knowledge folks on these boards are right, there isn't much on the D side of things to be had, so it'll be the same... rinse repeat... 

[R3aL]

On 10/29/2022 at 9:34 PM, HighOnHockey said:

@R3aL Cam Allen was -2 last night despite a 6-3 win, and another -2 tonight brings him to 5 points and -14 in 12 games on the year.

My guy never seen a top selected dman in a draft with a Stat line like this to start. Wonder what’s going on for him