The Hypocrisy in the Media and the Fanbase about the New Regime

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Timråfan said:

It seems you are not capable to understand what JR and Allvin talked about. 
They want a faster team. 
They don’t want to spend assets/picks.

The players they want to trade isn’t tradeable.

Bennings players except the core isn’t of any larger interest unless we send assets/draftpicks along. 
 

And finally, the GM isn’t a scout. The GM is a communicater/HR guy first and foremost.

The rest of the organisation are capable to scout, draft, write contract etc.

 

Benning fooled you real hard and those are the hardest to let go. 

I don't think that you understand, it's not the players that we haven't that aren't tradeable, it's the ENTIRE LEAGUE that isn't tradeable.  

 

There's literally 27 teams that cannot take on any money, and only about 5 that are able to (but don't want to).  That's why there's been so few trades and so many free agents left over.  

 

I'll take a GM that's a scout over a GM that's a communication major.  Allvin is also a scout btw. 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I don't think that you understand, it's not the players that we haven't that aren't tradeable, it's the ENTIRE LEAGUE that isn't tradeable.  

 

There's literally 27 teams that cannot take on any money, and only about 5 that are able to (but don't want to).  That's why there's been so few trades and so many free agents left over.  

 

I'll take a GM that's a scout over a GM that's a communication major.  Allvin is also a scout btw. 

The two pirst parts you’re talking about, do it with someone that talked about that. 
 

The Allvin is a scout thingy is irrelevant because he has better communication skills than Benning,

If Allvin is as bad as Benning with players I say fire him also.

[Coconuts]

20 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

I don't read Canucks media.

 

However. I disagree with a lot of what you have said here. I think the core is really good and is better than some think. We don't need massive changes. 

 

For example...I think JT is a guy you retain, speaking of Miller this is going to turn into another thread about him.

 

Is this a Miller thread yet

 

Am I too late

[AV.]

4 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Sorry if I jump in.

What trades can the new management do without spending assets/picks?

Or trade away Miller for less?

This depends.  If they're adding/buying players, they'll have to trade assets/picks.  I don't imagine many straight roster swaps are available, much less that they would be interested.

If they're trying to shed salary (which is what we've been hearing for the longest time), I imagine they will exhaust all avenues to make a trade without the inclusion of a sweetener (assets/picks).  Whether they can be successful at this or eventually have to give in, we won't know until training camp.

[tas]

the circle of life. everybody here was creaming themselves when benning was hired, too. 

 

it's because the vast majority of people are unable to see things in a balanced, objective, nuanced way. they go from "eff yeah benning is the man bruins model for the win!" to "stupid Benning* is the worst gm of all time he makes mike millbury look like glen sather!" with absolutely no reflection or understanding of how they got there. 

 

 

*it's kind of sad that there has to be a word filter here that changes "dim j.im" to "Benning" automatically. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by tas

[awalk]

Probably time to put on big boy pants and accept that this is a results based business, and for the last regime after many years the results weren't there. And with the new regime, it's much too early to make an assessment on results. And anything the media says or anyone says on here in the meantime, is just noise. #itiswhatitis

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, Muttley said:

You too? Thought you were one of the good guys. 

 

Since like.. November, I've been beating this drum long before it picked up momentum.

[DSVII]

12 hours ago, The Lock said:

At this point, we might as well have a probationary period of day 1 with these standards. I wouldn't even be surprised if we had a probationary period that's already expired for the next GM that shows up in 10 years' time.

 

Look, I get it. You want results. We all do. But we have to be realistic about getting these results. I'm not saying to give this management group 8 years of probationary. I'm saying that 8 months is a stupidly small amount of time for anything to happen, especially when management literally showed up halfway through the season. This isn't even making excuses at this point and the fact that you're calling out "excuses" is laugahable at best.

 

And don't get me wrong, I totally understand the frustration, but you have to understand that, to do what you seem to want to do, it's like asking for a miracle to happen given our cap situation and the situation of all 31 other teams. It's why I think people are the most unrealistic I've ever seen on this forum. This isn't doable what you want. Period. You could bring in the best GM in the league and we'd most likely have the same results right now. 

My probationary period for Benning was 2 offseasons. (2015, 2016). I'll extend the same to this group. Should be enough time to see what their stamp on this team will be. 

 

 

[Devron]

I like the team and I like the core. We are a stud RH defencemen away from being a pretty good team imo. It’s just really tough to get one, I’m very happy that the organization didn’t blow this up just to put their stamp on it. 
 

I was disappointed in the fan base when they pushed management to make desperate moves last year. We should have kept with the process. I like OEL and Garland but it was that “we’re sorry fans, we are going to get really aggressive this summer approach” I did not like. Coaching decisions were also a big mistake.

 

I am happy with the direction as far as bolstering the management group. It’s a collective effort. More voices. More patience.

 

But as far as how happy and stoked some posters were with new management coming aboard I thought was hilarious. Now the same folk seem to be the same folk from the Benning era.
 

 

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Since like.. November, I've been beating this drum long before it picked up momentum.

Me too, except for keeping that solid player. 

 

However your instrument needs another Ambassador Batter.

 

 

6 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Is this a Miller thread yet

 

Am I too late

Haven't read through the rest of it. But you're here now so that guarantees my prediction. Teach away.

Edited July 30, 2022 by bishopshodan

[Fred65]

15 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

Was he dismissed or just having fun living in Cali cashing Aqua's cheques?

Yep, it's a good job if you can get it  He had us believing that the academic approach to hockey was logical and the future

[tas]

2 hours ago, Muttley said:

Think maybe they thought drafting would improve, but, I for one, wasn't doing that what you said. Maybe just you in your circle.

(insert smiley that doesn't exist).

nope, I wanted paul fenton. that, uh, may not have gone much better. though. 

[bigbadcanucks]

4 hours ago, tas said:

the circle of life. everybody here was creaming themselves when benning was hired, too. 

 

it's because the vast majority of people are unable to see things in a balanced, objective, nuanced way. they go from "eff yeah benning is the man bruins model for the win!" to "stupid Benning* is the worst gm of all time he makes mike millbury look like glen sather!" with absolutely no reflection or understanding of how they got there. 

 

 

*it's kind of sad that there has to be a word filter here that changes "dim j.im" to "Benning" automatically. 

That Jacobs family/Delaware North Cos.---> evil geniuses.  Chiarelli and Benning let loose on two unsuspecting western Canadian franchises.  Only. to. set. these. franchises. back. at. least. a. couple. of. cycles. by. unleashing. bumbling. idiots. on. them. 

 

All the more reason to hate the Jacobs family.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

In the "What's your bold prediction for game 1 next season?" thread, my prediction was that JT, Brock, and Bo are all still on the team. Turns out it wasn't that bold after all. 

There has been so much desire for changes, but the reality is that JR's evaluation of some members of the team seems different from a lot of the people here:

• JT Miller - he thinks he's the best forward on the team (NOTE: even after seeing Petey's performance); his stated preference is to keep him
  • CDC: many people want him traded
• Brock - JR stated that he wanted to keep him at a fair price, and he did
  • CDC: many wanted him traded (often for what seemed like less productive players)
• Bo - JR said that Bo is the Captain of the team and wants to keep him; I personally suspect that Bo has kindly told management to try to keep JT and that's why his extension is not yet signed
  • CDC: some people think he's not worthy of being a captain
• OEL - JR liked his play
  • CDC: some want to dump his salary
• Poolman - JR said that when healthy, he's top 4
  • CDC: he's bottom 6
• Motte, Lammikko, Highmore - none of them were re-signed
  • CDC: we all loved them
• Lekkerimaki - JR and Allvin thinks they got a steal
  • CDC: some of us are in a wait-and-see mode; we think he's a good shooter but not necessarily a star
• team - JR said that barring injuries, the Canucks should be a playoff team; it sounds like he thinks the Canucks' forwards (with JT) are good enough

I wouldn't be surprised if JR and Allvin valued other players we've mentioned for trades (Garland, Hoglander, Pearson, Myers) more than what a lot of us do. If that's the case, I get it why they're waiting for the right deal.

Me personally, I'm giving them until the start of the 2023-2024 season to evaluate how they put their stamp on the team.

Edited July 30, 2022 by Vinny in Vancouver

[tas]

36 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

That Jacobs family/Delaware North Cos.---> evil geniuses.  Chiarelli and Benning let loose on two unsuspecting western Canadian franchises.  Only. to. set. these. franchises. back. at. least. a. couple. of. cycles. by. unleashing. bumbling. idiots. on. them. 

 

All the more reason to hate the Jacobs family.

I think you might have had a seizure there with the punctuation. 

[Timråfan]

8 hours ago, AV. said:

This depends.  If they're adding/buying players, they'll have to trade assets/picks.  I don't imagine many straight roster swaps are available, much less that they would be interested.

If they're trying to shed salary (which is what we've been hearing for the longest time), I imagine they will exhaust all avenues to make a trade without the inclusion of a sweetener (assets/picks).  Whether they can be successful at this or eventually have to give in, we won't know until training camp.

I believe they keep Miller til someone offers anything irresistable or they miss out on playoffs. If so they trade Miller for whatever they can get. 
I might be wrong here regarding Miller. They might wanna keep him…

[The Lock]

15 hours ago, AV. said:

You do realize I'm not the OP and I'm not the one trying to shade management prematurely or act like hiring them was a mistake?  I'm also not sure why you're saying that I'm impatient and implying that I'm carrying this mentality where I think everything needs to get done immediately, but that isn't at all what I've been communicating. 

Truthfully, I've been fairly indifferent towards the speed at which things have been going, mostly because we'll be a middling team with or without certain movements made, so it matters not to me.  For the sake of management building a foundation of trust and rapport with fans, I'd prefer they'd get stuff done sooner rather than later, so that they're better prepared for future opportunities to improve the team.  This is why it would be a shot to their feet if they come into training camp without having made movement and are returning with many of the players they've had on the trading block, after all they've said about making changes.  But this is ultimately out of all of our control and this is the risk they're taking by moving slowly or passively.  With that said - and I need you to read this part carefully because it's not reflective of how I'm currently feeling - if other people want to criticize the management team for a lack of moves or because they believe they're working too slow and too passively, they have that right and I support the logic behind that. 

The fact is,  this management team has had a TDL, a draft, and are now in a free-agency period - the three major stages of the seasons for player movement.  So, ask yourself - if not during these times/stages of the season to make these major moves, then when?  Again, I have to reiterate - the minute that fans start to lower the expectations and provide more leeway for excuses and explanations than required, it's over. The logic behind this notion shouldn't be too difficult to see.  And yes, the Canucks might have their own specific constraints that impact their business, but so do other teams. 

At the end of the day, good management teams find ways to get things done no matter the circumstances - this is the only reality worth operating in.

I'm talking about your words that you've presented just as much as I'm talking about the op's. It's good that you're at least indifferent and willing to give time, but your ideas on what should be expected, especially your last sentence, is rather disturbing.

 

Good management teams will TRY to find ways to get things done no matter the circumstances. Add that 1 word of try and I'll agree with you. It doesn't mean they will, but they wil try. WILL is not realily. TRY is reality because there it not always a solution that's going to necessarily "get things done". Sometimes getting things done means you've made the wrong move as well.

 

So honestly, I'm glad you're giving them a chance but your expectation of your last sentence... to put it blunt you're never going to be satisfied and I'm expecting you to be complaining in a year's time or less, and continue to do so no matter whatever management group we have, because that's the mentality you've just stated that you have. What you want will always be different from what reality brings you.

Edited July 30, 2022 by The Lock

[The Lock]

5 hours ago, DSVII said:

My probationary period for Benning was 2 offseasons. (2015, 2016). I'll extend the same to this group. Should be enough time to see what their stamp on this team will be. 

Even then, I'd also look at the situation around the league. I tend to think it's never a bad idea to compare what our management is doing with other management at the time.

 

A good example of this would be with the LE signing. Clearly, that was a terrible signing, but if you look around the league at that time... a lot of bad signings happened that very same day: Lucic. Ladd, Okposo, etc. So yes, that was bad, but when you look at what was going on in the league, it was just a bad day for the league in general. This obviously isn't to give an excuse to Benning, but most people ignore this extra bit of context when they bring out their frustrations of the signing.

Edited July 30, 2022 by The Lock

[bigbadcanucks]

2 hours ago, tas said:

I think you might have had a seizure there with the punctuation. 

I was having a conniption as I was thinking about the false sense of brilliance that I thought the long suffering Canucks fans like I were getting with the Benning hire.  Oh how wrong I was.  AGM and Head Amateur Scout is about the highest pay grade Benning qualifies for.  I don't know what to say about Chiarelli other than I'm glad it was the pedophile Katz that signed him (or was it Kevin Lowe?) and not Aquilini.

 

Edit: need to add that you gotta give the Oilers credit for terminating Chiarelli long before Aquilini terminated Benning.

Edited July 30, 2022 by bigbadcanucks

[bigbadcanucks]

2 hours ago, Vinny in Vancouver said:

In the "What's your bold prediction for game 1 next season?" thread, my prediction was that JT, Brock, and Bo are all still on the team. Turns out it wasn't that bold after all. 

There has been so much desire for changes, but the reality is that JR's evaluation of some members of the team seems different from a lot of the people here:

• JT Miller - he thinks he's the best forward on the team (NOTE: even after seeing Petey's performance); his stated preference is to keep him
  • CDC: many people want him traded
• Brock - JR stated that he wanted to keep him at a fair price, and he did
  • CDC: many wanted him traded (often for what seemed like less productive players)
• Bo - JR said that Bo is the Captain of the team and wants to keep him; I personally suspect that Bo has kindly told management to try to keep JT and that's why his extension is not yet signed
  • CDC: some people think he's not worthy of being a captain
• OEL - JR liked his play
  • CDC: some want to dump his salary
• Poolman - JR said that when healthy, he's top 4
  • CDC: he's bottom 6
• Motte, Lammikko, Highmore - none of them were re-signed
  • CDC: we all loved them
• Lekkerimaki - JR and Allvin thinks they got a steal
  • CDC: some of us are in a wait-and-see mode; we think he's a good shooter but not necessarily a star
• team - JR said that barring injuries, the Canucks should be a playoff team; it sounds like he thinks the Canucks' forwards (with JT) are good enough

I wouldn't be surprised if JR and Allvin valued other players we've mentioned for trades (Garland, Hoglander, Pearson, Myers) more than what a lot of us do. If that's the case, I get it why they're waiting for the right deal.

Me personally, I'm giving them until the start of the 2023-2024 season to evaluate how they put their stamp on the team.

There you go again with your sound observations.  You're not living up (or down) to the CDC standards @Vinny in Vancouver