wai_lai416 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 6 hours ago, Got the Babych said: Not necessarily saying Bo is our best player, but I posit that he is, quietly, our best center: 1. Bo is the only one that has, uh, consistently played center in the NHL. JT has mostly not, hopefully Petey eventually will. 2. Bo has been relegated to "shutdown centre" duties because he is the only one that CAN play that role. Bo is the only one that plays as a true 200 ft center, Petey likely will eventually, JT will not. Doesn't mean Bo is not a top line center. When given the chance (as JT was) he will dominate on a top line. 3. Bo scored the same amount of goals last year, while being utilized in a defensive role with offensively inferior partners. JT and Petey generally play with our most prolific goal scorers (including each other). JT crushed the assists and deserves credit for beautiful playmaking last year, but it should be obvious that it's hard to rack up assists when consistently paired with non-goal scorers. 4. JT and Petey often play (and are at their best) on the same line. How does that work for centers? Sometimes Petey will be "playing center" while JT takes the faceoffs. So, for a fair comparison to Bo, JT and Petey would have to make a baby together, and hope that he becomes a pure center of Bo's caliber that can do it all. 5. Consistency. Comparing by age (first year in the league, second, etc), Bo has consistently outperformed JT in the NHL, while playing for a horrible team. Petey blows them away for early years. 6. Handsome-ness. This one is tough. Petey could be seen as pretty-but not handsome-while Bo and JT are both dreamy in a rugged, farmboy kind of way. I give JT a slight edge here. i agree with most of what you said but i disagree with JT and EP often played together.. they rarely played together 5v5 last season since november they are often on seperate lines and EP often got the short end of the stick in terms of linemates JT linemates boeser pearson garland podkolzin and the rare occasion EP EP linemates hoglander garland podkolzin lammiko highmore motte petan dickinson bailey dowling and end of season boeser and the rare occasion horvat 4 hours ago, Got the Babych said: Valid arguments. I didn't know JT logged the most forward PK time. But, is that playing center? I'm not saying Bo is our best player. You're right Bo will have to take a big step to match JT's trajectory now. bo will never make that big step to match JT's trajectory because he'll never be given the opportunity.. before JT was thrown into the top line role with the canucks.. his season stats ppg etc were all below Horvat at the exact same age.. and then at 27 he was thrown into a top line role and started to take off.. if we take Horvat off the defensive center role and toss him into a top line role i'm sure he can at the very least be a ppg guy.. he outscored miller in goals.. i'm sure he can close the gap in assist if he's playing with high offensive skill players with mostly offensive zone times.. whether he can be a 100point guy? who knows maybe maybe not.. but he is a superior goal scorer to Miller.. maybe he won't hit 100 points.. but not impossible he hits 40 goals.. if he can get 31 goals in a 2nd line role mostly 5v5 defensive zone starts.. i'm sure he can hit 40+ with offensive playmakers ie EP with mostly offensive zone starts.. that however will unlikely to happen because the canucks simply don't have a center that's capable of being the go to guy in the defensive zone. EP is better than Horvat defensively imo but Bo is so much more superior in faceoff and EP offensive skill is unmatched on the team so there's really no point of forcing and turning him into the defensive center.. better off letting EP be the offensive juggernaut that can be defensively responsible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Most underrated Canuck. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Devron said: O’Reilly is like a Lady Byng player lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 23 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: Most under appreciated Canuck. FIFY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 24 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: He won the award and has been nominated a bunch of times 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckleHorse Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 One thing about who plays against who look at the level of competition that Bo faces and know that our other lines have an easier time when it comes to shutting down their opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CanuckleHorse Posted July 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2022 One of my favourite fights because I expected him to lose. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: How exactly is BO better than Miller or Petey? Faceoffs are only one part of the game and usually it's the 2C or the 3C that has the best faceoff % on every team. BO is a 2C and a very good one so I am happy we have him. However, both Miller and Petey are 1C's (Petey will get there this year), so a 2C cannot be better than a 1C... lol Patrice Bergeron doesn't have great offensive numbers.. over ppg once and only a .75ppg career.. he did win the selke 5 times though.. does that make him a inferior player? so if they put horvat as the 1c on the top line and miller or EP on the 2c as the defensive center.. does that automatically make Bo superior because he's branded as 1c? fwiw EP is technically the 3c then.. what line you play on doesn't mean s*it in terms of whos better or whos not.. if that's the case Pearson is our #1 LW coz he played on the top line? Bo may or may not be better than Miller.. but it's pretty obvious Bo is a better goal scorer than Miller... he has more goals than Miller in 2 less season in the league.. and out pace him in goals every season of the same age.. like ive said if given the right situation it's not ridiculous to think bo can't hit 40 goals 40 assist playing in an offensive role with offensive players compared to what he is playing now.. and if he ends up 40/40.. does that make him better than Miller? we will never know what Horvat can or will become because it's unlikely he'll ever get the chance to be the top line center on the team because of his defensive plays.. very rare your best defensive center plays on the top line with the best offensive players.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MrCanuck94 Posted July 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2022 What? Bo has had very weak defensive analytics since entering the league. He's not even close to a Selke candidate lol. Petey and Miller are better than him in every facet of the game except for faceoffs, period. They're superstars and Bo is a 2C. He's a jack of all trades, master of none type player. Has a good shot but not any elite attributes, except for faceoff taking. Except for when he was injured, Petey has been one of the best C's in the game since entering the league. His only weakness is faceoffs. Analytics fully support this. Don't get me wrong, he's a solid 2C, but let's not overhype our players more than what they are. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 48MPHSlapShot Posted July 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2022 Bo's defensive game is way overhyped. Miller has come closer to a Selke nomination than Horvat ever has and likely ever will. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 9 hours ago, Got the Babych said: Not necessarily saying Bo is our best player, but I posit that he is, quietly, our best center: 1. Bo is the only one that has, uh, consistently played center in the NHL. JT has mostly not, hopefully Petey eventually will. 2. Bo has been relegated to "shutdown centre" duties because he is the only one that CAN play that role. Bo is the only one that plays as a true 200 ft center, Petey likely will eventually, JT will not. Doesn't mean Bo is not a top line center. When given the chance (as JT was) he will dominate on a top line. 3. Bo scored the same amount of goals last year, while being utilized in a defensive role with offensively inferior partners. JT and Petey generally play with our most prolific goal scorers (including each other). JT crushed the assists and deserves credit for beautiful playmaking last year, but it should be obvious that it's hard to rack up assists when consistently paired with non-goal scorers. 4. JT and Petey often play (and are at their best) on the same line. How does that work for centers? Sometimes Petey will be "playing center" while JT takes the faceoffs. So, for a fair comparison to Bo, JT and Petey would have to make a baby together, and hope that he becomes a pure center of Bo's caliber that can do it all. 5. Consistency. Comparing by age (first year in the league, second, etc), Bo has consistently outperformed JT in the NHL, while playing for a horrible team. Petey blows them away for early years. 6. Handsome-ness. This one is tough. Petey could be seen as pretty-but not handsome-while Bo and JT are both dreamy in a rugged, farmboy kind of way. I give JT a slight edge here. I don't buy the "shutdown center" tag unless I get a quality of competition analysis. From what I've seen, Petey and Miller's lines have been going head to head with other teams top lines. If it wasn't them, Motte's line was shutting down other teams. Bo had weak defensive analytics early in his career and I believe they are about average now, he's definitely not close to a top defensive guy or a Selke candidate. Bo was 218th in 5on5 scoring per 60. He scored a lot on the powerplay, and a lot of it was from quality feeds from JT Miller and his amazing passing skills. Stamkos plays on the wing, Draisatl plays the wing, does that mean Horvat is better than them? They're versatile players that can bring much more and be moved around. JT always had a high ceiling, it took him longer to realize it because of his maturity, which has been stated by his previous coaches. Bo hit his ceiling about 3 years into his career and has had similar metrics since, which adjust with the amount of TOI he is given. It's important to look at a player's skillset and production. He's a solid, shoot first, second line centre. That doesn't really compare to our two superstar centers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 I avoided cards from his injury times, but Petey is our best center, period. He plays against the highest competition, he has the best offensive metrics and he's a Selke candidate on the defensive end of things. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckleHorse Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 I point to the games we played without Bo last year and say this BOTH players had the reigns they had that drivers seat to show the hockey world that this their team and we got owned by the Alberta teams and got put out that’s why their FANS would love for Bo to be gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, CanuckleHorse said: I point to the games we played without Bo last year and say this BOTH players had the reigns they had that drivers seat to show the hockey world that this their team and we got owned by the Alberta teams and got put out that’s why their FANS would love for Bo to be gone! No one brings it like Bo does when it matters the most. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Devron said: He won the award and has been nominated a bunch of times I get the background of your statement in regards to SS. Not laughing at you but with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: lol Patrice Bergeron doesn't have great offensive numbers.. over ppg once and only a .75ppg career.. he did win the selke 5 times though.. does that make him a inferior player? so if they put horvat as the 1c on the top line and miller or EP on the 2c as the defensive center.. does that automatically make Bo superior because he's branded as 1c? fwiw EP is technically the 3c then.. what line you play on doesn't mean s*it in terms of whos better or whos not.. if that's the case Pearson is our #1 LW coz he played on the top line? Bo may or may not be better than Miller.. but it's pretty obvious Bo is a better goal scorer than Miller... he has more goals than Miller in 2 less season in the league.. and out pace him in goals every season of the same age.. like ive said if given the right situation it's not ridiculous to think bo can't hit 40 goals 40 assist playing in an offensive role with offensive players compared to what he is playing now.. and if he ends up 40/40.. does that make him better than Miller? we will never know what Horvat can or will become because it's unlikely he'll ever get the chance to be the top line center on the team because of his defensive plays.. very rare your best defensive center plays on the top line with the best offensive players.. Imagine comparing Bo Horvat to future hall of famer Patrice Bergeron... That alone discredits your entire post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Bo's defensive game is way overhyped. Miller has come closer to a Selke nomination than Horvat ever has and likely ever will. Yeah I am also confused as to the overhype on BO's defensive game. If we are talking about play inside our defensive zone then I will take Petey's defensive zone coverage over BO's 10 times out of 10. In fact, Petey is now playing on the PK along with Miller while BO is not, which tells you who is actually more responsible defensively... As for the Selke, BO finished 34th last year, while Miller finished 23rd, so how is BO even better defensively than Miller? Edited July 31, 2022 by Elias Pettersson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertburelinden Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 If Horvat is our best centre then we are picking in the lottery again next year . Miller and Petey are better then him . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeback_Kings Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Bo Horvat is a Ryan O'Reilly like player in my opinion. Both are UFA in 2023. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 55 minutes ago, Comeback_Kings said: Bo Horvat is a Ryan O'Reilly like player in my opinion. Both are UFA in 2023. Horvat is a better goal scorer but O'Reilly is a better playmaker and drastically better defensive player. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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