[Discussion] Projecting Pacific Division 2022/23 Final Finish

[King Heffy]

9 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

People need to remember that Calagry was one of the luckiest teams injury-wise last year. And no matter how anyone wants to slice it, they are worse off without Tkachuk and Gaudreau (sorry @King Heffy ) - no matter how much Treliving has made the most of a bad situation. I expect them to finish 3rd at best. 

I agree they were lucky, but sometimes getting rid of a problem in the locker room is worth it, like when pyjama boy left the Islanders.  The distraction being gone more than made up for the team being weaker on paper.  Getting those two scumbags off the Flames could have a similar effect.

[Got the Babych]

2 hours ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

People need to remember that Calagry was one of the luckiest teams injury-wise last year. And no matter how anyone wants to slice it, they are worse off without Tkachuk and Gaudreau (sorry @King Heffy ) - no matter how much Treliving has made the most of a bad situation. I expect them to finish 3rd at best. 

But being injury prone or not is not about luck. There is a reason Lost Man Games is one of the few stats we've dominated in over the last decade, and it's not "Canuck Luck". Having a non NHL coaching crew, who's only desperate goal is to battle for a wildcard spot NOW and keep their jobs is a recipe for injuries. Selected players were worked like rented mules until injuries inevitably ensued.

Sure, there is some luck involved and having a more talented team to spread out the workload helps. But, I would say that our collective team for the past 6 years or so was better than the horrible on ice results. Sadly we'll never know how they would have done with NHL coaching.

Not bitter though!

[Dr. Crossbar]

19 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Hmmm The Athletic doesn't seem to be so optimistic

 

https://theathletic.com/3475049/2022/08/04/nhl-team-rankings-offseason/

 

This article predicts the number of wins added (or lost per team)

 

If going by pure Wins and Losses this means Edmonton, Los Angels, and Calgary will take the Top 3 spots in the Pacific again.

Vancouver (that gain 1.3 wins) will surpass Vegas but both teams will still miss out with St. Louis and Dallas being the Wild card teams.

 

So the team could make the playoffs as a bubble team but I doubt it places #2 in the Pacific.

 

I think we are being over confident in how Vancouver could finish. The analysis I have seen so far indicates it's going to be a middle of the pack team. 

I also don't see how people can predict Vancouver will play as well as they did down the stretch while LA will take a step back. Considering Vancouver has just as much, if not more, question marks than LA.

The thing is ...the predictions each year are always middle of the pack team or worse no matter what improvements or changes we make.

 

I'm not sold that Calgary will maintain ... even with the Huberdeau signing. I think 2nd to 4th will be a dogfight.

 

I get what you're saying though. And granted 2nd may be too ambitious - likely 3rd - but I don't think it's impossible if we're dialed in from the start. 

 

The fact that we were Top 10 or Top 13 in many categories after Bruce is more accurate of where this team is ... and we have improved in some areas while also leaving holes.

 

The difference between 1st place in the division and 3rd or 4th is approx 10 games. I think we all saw last season that at least five of our losses were winnable. 

 

It may be overconfidence, sure, totally get it, but it's also safe to say we'll be middle of the pack.

[VegasCanuck]

So, part of where I suggested that Vegas would finish was based on their lack of depth overall, including in net. The fact that they are now without Lehner for the whole season due to hip surgery suggests that they might struggle to make the playoffs.

 

They have zero cap flexibility and running low on assets to acquire a new goalie before training camp opens.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

So, part of where I suggested that Vegas would finish was based on their lack of depth overall, including in net. The fact that they are now without Lehner for the whole season due to hip surgery suggests that they might struggle to make the playoffs.

 

They have zero cap flexibility and running low on assets to acquire a new goalie before training camp opens.

Never underestimate your opponent.

 

If they are easier then you thought then be happy.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[VegasCanuck]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

Never underestimate your opponent.

 

If they are easier then you thought then be happy.

Not underestimating them, I just don't think they have the overall depth to avoid having to overplay their top 6. They are still solid defensively, but right now, they may need to be able to score 5 or more on a lot of nights to win if they don't find a solution to their goaltending problem.

[canuck73_3]

On 8/4/2022 at 10:24 PM, iinatcc said:

As someone here already said this overrated team that had most of their top players injured still managed to finish ahead of the Canucks.

 

If Vegas is overrated I can't imagine to think what the Canucks are 

Annnnnd Robin Lehner is done for the year. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by canuck73_3

[Gawdzukes]

7 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Not underestimating them, I just don't think they have the overall depth to avoid having to overplay their top 6. They are still solid defensively, but right now, they may need to be able to score 5 or more on a lot of nights to win if they don't find a solution to their goaltending problem.

Yeah I get where you're coming from and I do agree. You got to remember to that they will probably still make some moves somehow and also could have some prospects join the club. It never ceases to amaze me how other teams I don't follow that closely improve and change for better or worse each year. Some years you figure a team will just be terrible and they surprise you based on a couple seemingly simple moves.

 

If Vegas struggles our chances improve mightily if we can beat them head to head. It could be the difference in making the playoffs.

[Alienhuggyflow]

On 8/4/2022 at 12:50 PM, iinatcc said:

Top Tier

1. Vegas

 

Everyone else could go either way

2. Edmonton

3. Los Angeles 

4. Calgary

5. Vancouver

6. Anaheim

 

The Rest

7. Seattle

8. San Jose

I freely admit I tend to be a glass half full guy but I think based on everything that's transpired since  Bruce took over, that the division is ours to lose, based on some of these opinions of mine.

 

Starting with us. I feel that this team was severely affected  by the limits and overall environment that were present during TG's time as coach. 

The system he and his assistants deployed didn't utilize the roster properly on the ice and the entire regime including Benning created a situation in which nobody seemed happy off the ice and that kind of stuff can't be dismissed.  I really feel the team we saw under Bruce is the true representation of the team.

 

All that aside,  I think that despite not upgrading the RHD yet we at least saw the most glaring issue last season (the pk) improved internally under Bruce by putting Petey and Quinn with the former using that to get back some of the confidence back. Externally adding Lazar and Mikheyev should also be a big boon as well.

Throw in the added depth guys like Kuzmenko and Mikheyev bring as well as the natural progression of the younger guys and a full year of Bruce, will be huge imo.

 

While it's true our defense on paper seems below average on the right-side and despite having the most man games lost we were still a top 5 team 5on5,  people quickly point out the Demko factor and yes he's awesome but when you look at stats that zero in on him and his overall effect like WAR and saves above expected, while good they weren't anywhere close to guys like Marky, Vasi, Sorokin, Shesty and Keumper. 

 

On paper it shouldn't have worked and I'm sure one can find stats saying the group overall wasn't great but the results are what matter, like Bruce so passionately pointed out when defending the group and that was with guys like Hunt, Burroughs,  Joulsen and Poolman playing long stretches in the top 4. Poolman on the bottom pair was a lot different than Poolman on the top pair. Hopefully guys stay healthy and a full season of Dermott and Rathbone help things as well.

 

The other 3 teams I'll  mention since are the Oilers,  Flames,  and Vegas because I feel while the Kings, Kraken,  Ducks and Sharks, won't be terrible, I don't think they will be in the conversation in the end. The Kings are a bit of an enigma  for me, they have some good vets but I think their younger players get overrated and my gut tells me this is the year we see Quick, Drew, and Anze hit that wall.

 

The flames last season quite literally had a season where everything went their way.

They were by far the healthiest team by a landslide and even their covid outbreak was fortuitous since it happened all at once allowing them to postpone a chunk of games while a team like ours played a bunch with several key players including some with our 3 best goalies missing.

They also saw career years from basically their entire roster and will be without Tanev until December. 

While adding Huberdeau was nice they still are weaker since they didn't replace what MT brought and it's not a given that Huberdeau will have the same impact that JG had.

Weeger is a downgrade on Tanev and once Tanev comes back they most likely have Weeger play the left-side and he's far less effective in that role but having him on the 3rd pairing doesn't really make sense.

Obviously they should still be a great team but I wouldn't bet on them duplicating last season.

 

Vegas. They just lost Lehner for the season, they traded Patches and Dandenov and quite frankly I just don't see what you see, the only reason I didn't lump them with the bottom teams in the pacific is because they are an experienced team that still has some stars but even then one could argue that their current roster is worse than the one that plummeted down the standings after the midway point of last season.  Stone, Jack, Petro, are going to have to carry them and the last two will need to be much better than they played last year.

 

Finally the team and fanbase I truly loathe.

Obviously any team with McDrai has a chance but the rest of that team, including a Kane not playing for a multi-year contract,  doesn't inspire much fear imo.

Their defense actually got worse when Keith retired (that's saying something) and Jack Campbell is going from a team that actually has good defensive forwards and a solid dcore to perhaps one of the worst. I mean it's staggering to see the Oilers record when McDrai is held to 3 points or less combined.

Every Oilers fan points too two things as proof they are a contender, their playoff run and their record after Tippet was fired. 

 

However looking at their playoff run and seeing the numbers that 97 and 29 put up and how that inflated imo Kane and Zachs numbers, for me shows that despite putting up numbers not seen since the 80s, the only series they looked decent was one in which they faced the single worst goalie performance I've seen in a series in recent memory.

As for their record after the firing I watched most oiler games last year and the only actual difference was Mike Smith, its no secret that he can be a game changer when he goes on a roll and just the opposite when he's not. He went on an unbelievable run which covered up the garbage play and the playoffs were an exact microcosm of him and the team behind him.

When he's not in God mode,  even Mcdrai usually can't carry the team to victory enough nights to make them serious threats.

Jack Campbell is a less proven version of him and just like him he's,  injury prone, streaky, mentally weak and the only season he played starter minutes, he imploded right around the threshold of starter games played.

In fairness if Jack somehow plays at a level of a top 10 goalie for most of the season, than despite everything I just said they still have two of the best players in the world who have the ability to carry them and their wingers but I just can't see that happening with a defensive group that I feel is just terrible.

Give me OEL, Myers, Quinn and Shenn all day over Nurse, Kulak,  Ceci and Barrie.

 

Vancouver- 111pts

Calgary.    -  105pts

 

Vegas  -  93pts

Oilers  -  90pts

Kings  -   89pts

Kraken - 88pts

Ducks -  86pts

Sharks-  81pts.

 

 

[rychicken]

Edmonton

LA

Calgary

Vegas

Vancouver

Anaheim

Seattle

San Jose

[IBatch]

After looking into Bruce's full sample size ... i'm going to be an optimist and change my vote to Vancouver, with the caveat that means Miller is staying for a playoff run.

 

Why?

 

Under Bruce we went from dead last, and the worst PK all-time, all teams, ever, to over 80%.   Which even if that's where it is, still ranks around 12-13 overall.   We've added better PKers ... and that's a very respectable PK, COL was 15th, FLD 16th overall.   Only "contenders" ahead of us was CAR at number one with 88% (wow that's amazing!",  CAL at 6th 83.2 ... only 2.8 or so ahead of us.   

 

Our PP was even more impressive.   Went from not good, to 4th best in the league, overall,  and well the last 25 or so games tops in the league at over 30%!   Just for a reference, it was 2% better then 2010-2011 when we were tops in the league (26.9% under Bruce overall vs 24.4%).   Also our PK was only 5% worse then 2010/2011...not bad at all.    We all know how good that team was.    

 

Overall, our points percentage was good for 4th in the West (105ish points).   That's where things get a tad hairy.   CAL of course had a boffo season...i believe that team is going to have some hiccups this season...and wouldn't pick them.   Vegas of course is turning into a train wreck.   That leaves us and EDM, LA as a dark horse.    EDM...well picked them already and changed my vote.   The more i go over Bruce's sample size ... the more i believe this team is going to have a good start.    Because no EP contract or influx of a ton of players.    And our special teams finally figured things out.   Even under Green we were a good team 5 x 5.  Also feel we are going to be a better team.   Somewhere in the middle between the late season push and Bruce's first 20 or so games...Would put us around 112 points.  

[IBatch]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:28 PM, Alienhuggyflow said:

I freely admit I tend to be a glass half full guy but I think based on everything that's transpired since  Bruce took over, that the division is ours to lose, based on some of these opinions of mine.

 

Starting with us. I feel that this team was severely affected  by the limits and overall environment that were present during TG's time as coach. 

The system he and his assistants deployed didn't utilize the roster properly on the ice and the entire regime including Benning created a situation in which nobody seemed happy off the ice and that kind of stuff can't be dismissed.  I really feel the team we saw under Bruce is the true representation of the team.

 

All that aside,  I think that despite not upgrading the RHD yet we at least saw the most glaring issue last season (the pk) improved internally under Bruce by putting Petey and Quinn with the former using that to get back some of the confidence back. Externally adding Lazar and Mikheyev should also be a big boon as well.

Throw in the added depth guys like Kuzmenko and Mikheyev bring as well as the natural progression of the younger guys and a full year of Bruce, will be huge imo.

 

While it's true our defense on paper seems below average on the right-side and despite having the most man games lost we were still a top 5 team 5on5,  people quickly point out the Demko factor and yes he's awesome but when you look at stats that zero in on him and his overall effect like WAR and saves above expected, while good they weren't anywhere close to guys like Marky, Vasi, Sorokin, Shesty and Keumper. 

 

On paper it shouldn't have worked and I'm sure one can find stats saying the group overall wasn't great but the results are what matter, like Bruce so passionately pointed out when defending the group and that was with guys like Hunt, Burroughs,  Joulsen and Poolman playing long stretches in the top 4. Poolman on the bottom pair was a lot different than Poolman on the top pair. Hopefully guys stay healthy and a full season of Dermott and Rathbone help things as well.

 

The other 3 teams I'll  mention since are the Oilers,  Flames,  and Vegas because I feel while the Kings, Kraken,  Ducks and Sharks, won't be terrible, I don't think they will be in the conversation in the end. The Kings are a bit of an enigma  for me, they have some good vets but I think their younger players get overrated and my gut tells me this is the year we see Quick, Drew, and Anze hit that wall.

 

The flames last season quite literally had a season where everything went their way.

They were by far the healthiest team by a landslide and even their covid outbreak was fortuitous since it happened all at once allowing them to postpone a chunk of games while a team like ours played a bunch with several key players including some with our 3 best goalies missing.

They also saw career years from basically their entire roster and will be without Tanev until December. 

While adding Huberdeau was nice they still are weaker since they didn't replace what MT brought and it's not a given that Huberdeau will have the same impact that JG had.

Weeger is a downgrade on Tanev and once Tanev comes back they most likely have Weeger play the left-side and he's far less effective in that role but having him on the 3rd pairing doesn't really make sense.

Obviously they should still be a great team but I wouldn't bet on them duplicating last season.

 

Vegas. They just lost Lehner for the season, they traded Patches and Dandenov and quite frankly I just don't see what you see, the only reason I didn't lump them with the bottom teams in the pacific is because they are an experienced team that still has some stars but even then one could argue that their current roster is worse than the one that plummeted down the standings after the midway point of last season.  Stone, Jack, Petro, are going to have to carry them and the last two will need to be much better than they played last year.

 

Finally the team and fanbase I truly loathe.

Obviously any team with McDrai has a chance but the rest of that team, including a Kane not playing for a multi-year contract,  doesn't inspire much fear imo.

Their defense actually got worse when Keith retired (that's saying something) and Jack Campbell is going from a team that actually has good defensive forwards and a solid dcore to perhaps one of the worst. I mean it's staggering to see the Oilers record when McDrai is held to 3 points or less combined.

Every Oilers fan points too two things as proof they are a contender, their playoff run and their record after Tippet was fired. 

 

However looking at their playoff run and seeing the numbers that 97 and 29 put up and how that inflated imo Kane and Zachs numbers, for me shows that despite putting up numbers not seen since the 80s, the only series they looked decent was one in which they faced the single worst goalie performance I've seen in a series in recent memory.

As for their record after the firing I watched most oiler games last year and the only actual difference was Mike Smith, its no secret that he can be a game changer when he goes on a roll and just the opposite when he's not. He went on an unbelievable run which covered up the garbage play and the playoffs were an exact microcosm of him and the team behind him.

When he's not in God mode,  even Mcdrai usually can't carry the team to victory enough nights to make them serious threats.

Jack Campbell is a less proven version of him and just like him he's,  injury prone, streaky, mentally weak and the only season he played starter minutes, he imploded right around the threshold of starter games played.

In fairness if Jack somehow plays at a level of a top 10 goalie for most of the season, than despite everything I just said they still have two of the best players in the world who have the ability to carry them and their wingers but I just can't see that happening with a defensive group that I feel is just terrible.

Give me OEL, Myers, Quinn and Shenn all day over Nurse, Kulak,  Ceci and Barrie.

 

Vancouver- 111pts

Calgary.    -  105pts

 

Vegas  -  93pts

Oilers  -  90pts

Kings  -   89pts

Kraken - 88pts

Ducks -  86pts

Sharks-  81pts.

 

 

Wow just read your post after adding a new one.   Had the Canucks at 112.   Just going off the entire Bruce sample, and things going exactly the same ... we'd be at 105.   A solid season, which puts us in a top four playoff spot in the West.    Those extra 7 points to me, come from the fact our team is a little better on paper, and that we will see some core ascension.  

 

Miller actually scored at a 120ish pace down the stretch.   Don't see that happening, but i'm not betting against him having another close to 100 or 100 point season either.    He's betting on himself, and think he's going to play enough games with EP to keep it up (not that it mattered much,  he was 3 of the top four line combo's last season, and it didn't matter who his wingers were)..

 

CAL and EDM for sure are the other teams that could challenge for a top four spot and think your undervaluing what adding Kane did for them.    He's back...and they didn't lose anything that matters.   Smith actually is a very solid goalie, but can't and shouldn't have expected him to tow the line at his age.   I remember him almost carrying a mediocre to terrible ARI team on his back years ago. Those days are of course, over for him.   CAL seems like a tire fire waiting to happen.    Sutter is a great coach though...hard to say for sure but they can't afford even one key injury, from one of Markstrom, Tanev, or JH.   We all know what happens to Markstrom or Tanev if they are rode too hard.. that's going to come up sooner rather then later.   

 

Our team is entering its early prime now. Bruce had all, including even Brock before he went down, playing how they can.   I highly doubt that goes out the window.   I'd put money on it going even better for them.   Why i have us going from 105 points to 112.   We are about to have one of the best seasons this club ever had.    

[UFCanuck]

We’ll fight Edmonton for 1st 

On 8/11/2022 at 7:28 PM, Alienhuggyflow said:

I freely admit I tend to be a glass half full guy but I think based on everything that's transpired since  Bruce took over, that the division is ours to lose, based on some of these opinions of mine.

 

Starting with us. I feel that this team was severely affected  by the limits and overall environment that were present during TG's time as coach. 

The system he and his assistants deployed didn't utilize the roster properly on the ice and the entire regime including Benning created a situation in which nobody seemed happy off the ice and that kind of stuff can't be dismissed.  I really feel the team we saw under Bruce is the true representation of the team.

 

All that aside,  I think that despite not upgrading the RHD yet we at least saw the most glaring issue last season (the pk) improved internally under Bruce by putting Petey and Quinn with the former using that to get back some of the confidence back. Externally adding Lazar and Mikheyev should also be a big boon as well.

Throw in the added depth guys like Kuzmenko and Mikheyev bring as well as the natural progression of the younger guys and a full year of Bruce, will be huge imo.

 

While it's true our defense on paper seems below average on the right-side and despite having the most man games lost we were still a top 5 team 5on5,  people quickly point out the Demko factor and yes he's awesome but when you look at stats that zero in on him and his overall effect like WAR and saves above expected, while good they weren't anywhere close to guys like Marky, Vasi, Sorokin, Shesty and Keumper. 

 

On paper it shouldn't have worked and I'm sure one can find stats saying the group overall wasn't great but the results are what matter, like Bruce so passionately pointed out when defending the group and that was with guys like Hunt, Burroughs,  Joulsen and Poolman playing long stretches in the top 4. Poolman on the bottom pair was a lot different than Poolman on the top pair. Hopefully guys stay healthy and a full season of Dermott and Rathbone help things as well.

 

The other 3 teams I'll  mention since are the Oilers,  Flames,  and Vegas because I feel while the Kings, Kraken,  Ducks and Sharks, won't be terrible, I don't think they will be in the conversation in the end. The Kings are a bit of an enigma  for me, they have some good vets but I think their younger players get overrated and my gut tells me this is the year we see Quick, Drew, and Anze hit that wall.

 

The flames last season quite literally had a season where everything went their way.

They were by far the healthiest team by a landslide and even their covid outbreak was fortuitous since it happened all at once allowing them to postpone a chunk of games while a team like ours played a bunch with several key players including some with our 3 best goalies missing.

They also saw career years from basically their entire roster and will be without Tanev until December. 

While adding Huberdeau was nice they still are weaker since they didn't replace what MT brought and it's not a given that Huberdeau will have the same impact that JG had.

Weeger is a downgrade on Tanev and once Tanev comes back they most likely have Weeger play the left-side and he's far less effective in that role but having him on the 3rd pairing doesn't really make sense.

Obviously they should still be a great team but I wouldn't bet on them duplicating last season.

 

Vegas. They just lost Lehner for the season, they traded Patches and Dandenov and quite frankly I just don't see what you see, the only reason I didn't lump them with the bottom teams in the pacific is because they are an experienced team that still has some stars but even then one could argue that their current roster is worse than the one that plummeted down the standings after the midway point of last season.  Stone, Jack, Petro, are going to have to carry them and the last two will need to be much better than they played last year.

 

Finally the team and fanbase I truly loathe.

Obviously any team with McDrai has a chance but the rest of that team, including a Kane not playing for a multi-year contract,  doesn't inspire much fear imo.

Their defense actually got worse when Keith retired (that's saying something) and Jack Campbell is going from a team that actually has good defensive forwards and a solid dcore to perhaps one of the worst. I mean it's staggering to see the Oilers record when McDrai is held to 3 points or less combined.

Every Oilers fan points too two things as proof they are a contender, their playoff run and their record after Tippet was fired. 

 

However looking at their playoff run and seeing the numbers that 97 and 29 put up and how that inflated imo Kane and Zachs numbers, for me shows that despite putting up numbers not seen since the 80s, the only series they looked decent was one in which they faced the single worst goalie performance I've seen in a series in recent memory.

As for their record after the firing I watched most oiler games last year and the only actual difference was Mike Smith, its no secret that he can be a game changer when he goes on a roll and just the opposite when he's not. He went on an unbelievable run which covered up the garbage play and the playoffs were an exact microcosm of him and the team behind him.

When he's not in God mode,  even Mcdrai usually can't carry the team to victory enough nights to make them serious threats.

Jack Campbell is a less proven version of him and just like him he's,  injury prone, streaky, mentally weak and the only season he played starter minutes, he imploded right around the threshold of starter games played.

In fairness if Jack somehow plays at a level of a top 10 goalie for most of the season, than despite everything I just said they still have two of the best players in the world who have the ability to carry them and their wingers but I just can't see that happening with a defensive group that I feel is just terrible.

Give me OEL, Myers, Quinn and Shenn all day over Nurse, Kulak,  Ceci and Barrie.

 

Vancouver- 111pts

Calgary.    -  105pts

 

Vegas  -  93pts

Oilers  -  90pts

Kings  -   89pts

Kraken - 88pts

Ducks -  86pts

Sharks-  81pts.

 

 

Oilers have a pretty good dman in Evan Bouchard. He’s the replacement for Klefbom.

[IBatch]

23 hours ago, UFCanuck said:

We’ll fight Edmonton for 1st 

Oilers have a pretty good dman in Evan Bouchard. He’s the replacement for Klefbom.

He's got quite a bit of clean up to do in his own zone, but yes he's got a lot of potential for a young RHD.   Heffy and others will call him "trash" etc ... but he sure can put up the points ... and scores goals.   Decent chance he becomes a regular on the first PP unit, and if that happens 60-70 points isn't out of the question.  Last year 10 EV goals and 25 assists ... that's about what QHs scored but more goals, it's also very good production from the back end.  Who was the last Canuck to score 10 even strength goals?   Salo?  

Edited August 15, 2022 by IBatch

[JM_]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

He's got quite a bit of clean up to do in his own zone, but yes he's got a lot of potential for a young RHD.   Heffy and others will call him "trash" etc ... but he sure can put up the points ... and scores goals.   Decent chance he becomes a regular on the first PP unit, and if that happens 60-70 points isn't out of the question.  Last year 10 EV goals and 25 assists ... that's about what QHs scored but more goals, it's also very good production from the back end.  Who was the last Canuck to score 10 even strength goals?   Salo?  

I think the issue, well one of them, is that Nurse isn't really worth anything close to his salary. At 27/28 I don't know that you'll see him pick up his defensive game much, he likely is what he is. 

 

Hughes has 8 goals, Nurse 10, with Hughes having 60 assists. Nurse has a lot of catching up to do to be in Hughes category for creating offence. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

I think the issue, well one of them, is that Nurse isn't really worth anything close to his salary. At 27/28 I don't know that you'll see him pick up his defensive game much, he likely is what he is. 

 

Hughes has 8 goals, Nurse 10, with Hughes having 60 assists. Nurse has a lot of catching up to do to be in Hughes category for creating offence. 

Was actually talking about Bouchard.   Had 10 even strength goals... 35 points, 43 overall.   For sure played a sheltered role but he's the same age as QHs and doesn't get the PP time yet.  Nurse i agree, he should be in his prime now ... and what you get is what your going to get and his deal is worse then OELs, maybe the worst one in the league for D's.   Maybe he will earn it i suppose that's a possible,  but i would rather have OEL for the rest of his deal, at least he's actually done it before.   Nurse one good year really.    Broberg plays the left side, Bouchard the right.   It's possible they have a good pairing in the making.  Heffy and others comments about these guys being trash etc - well it's a tad early isn't it?   22 year old D scoring 43 points, plus 10...isn't trash.     On our team he wouldn't be considered a "busteroo" either.   Maybe he's just another Brent Sopel type too.   But time will tell.  

 

Edit:  Check this out ..

 

This season, Bouchard was one of only six defencemen to rank top-20 in the league in both isolated impact on even-strength scoring chances (RAPM xGF/60), and 5v5 points.

The other defencemen include Roman Josi, Cale Makar, Victor Hedman, MacKenzie Weegar, and Jaccob Slavin. Pretty decent company.

To be more specific, Bouchard ranked 4th in the league in RAPM xGF/60, and ranked in the 99th percentile; put differently, Bouchard’s impact on generating scoring chances was superior to roughly 99% of the league’s defencemen.

 

Edit:  Again when was the last time we've had a 5 x 5 D that had that much impact?   Bieksa is the correct answer.  Most people probably don't have a clue.    The fact he's a RHD adds to that equation.   This was only his first full season, and that company, wasn't even close to capable of doing what he did, their first full year. 

 

Edit: aGENT ... lol... well ... it's only one season right? 

Edited August 15, 2022 by IBatch

[JM_]

31 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Was actually talking about Bouchard.   Had 10 even strength goals... 35 points, 43 overall.   For sure played a sheltered role but he's the same age as QHs and doesn't get the PP time yet.  Nurse i agree, he should be in his prime now ... and what you get is what your going to get and his deal is worse then OELs, maybe the worst one in the league for D's.   Maybe he will earn it i suppose that's a possible,  but i would rather have OEL for the rest of his deal, at least he's actually done it before.   Nurse one good year really.    Broberg plays the left side, Bouchard the right.   It's possible they have a good pairing in the making.  Heffy and others comments about these guys being trash etc - well it's a tad early isn't it?   22 year old D scoring 43 points, plus 10...isn't trash.     On our team he wouldn't be considered a "busteroo" either.   Maybe he's just another Brent Sopel type too.   But time will tell.  

 

Edit:  Check this out ..

 

This season, Bouchard was one of only six defencemen to rank top-20 in the league in both isolated impact on even-strength scoring chances (RAPM xGF/60), and 5v5 points.

The other defencemen include Roman Josi, Cale Makar, Victor Hedman, MacKenzie Weegar, and Jaccob Slavin. Pretty decent company.

To be more specific, Bouchard ranked 4th in the league in RAPM xGF/60, and ranked in the 99th percentile; put differently, Bouchard’s impact on generating scoring chances was superior to roughly 99% of the league’s defencemen.

 

Edit:  Again when was the last time we've had a 5 x 5 D that had that much impact?   Bieksa is the correct answer.  Most people probably don't have a clue.    The fact he's a RHD adds to that equation.   This was only his first full season, and that company, wasn't even close to capable of doing what he did, their first full year. 

 

Edit: aGENT ... lol... well ... it's only one season right? 

 sorry thought you were talking Nurse. Too early in the am I guess. 

[IBatch]

Just now, JM_ said:

 sorry thought you were talking Nurse. Too early in the am I guess. 

No worries.   I wasn't sure right away and it's 11:32 lol right now... I totally agree,  what you see in Nurse is what your getting.   I don't go check out other teams sites, but bet the are having a really tough time justifying Nurse right now.     And seriously wondering what they have in Bouchard (sure a lot to like about him his first full season) and Broberg.  

[IBatch]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:47 PM, King Heffy said:

I agree they were lucky, but sometimes getting rid of a problem in the locker room is worth it, like when pyjama boy left the Islanders.  The distraction being gone more than made up for the team being weaker on paper.  Getting those two scumbags off the Flames could have a similar effect.

Ok.  So the team that adored Tavares, and was crushed when he didn't sign with them ... was somehow a cancer in the locker room.   Without Trotz that team would have been dead in the water..and well even Trotz and Lou don't seem to be enough.  Tavares played on some really bad NYI teams.    Guys likely going to pass the Sedins in points before he's done and have over 500 goals.   So not sure what your going on about.   Whenever i read your posts, this is what i see, maybe that's the point but if so / well hilarious.   At least your consistent.   But wouldn't it be more fun if you decided not to be the class clown? I bet you'd have some good insights.  

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Ok.  So the team that adored Tavares, and was crushed when he didn't sign with them ... was somehow a cancer in the locker room.   Without Trotz that team would have been dead in the water..and well even Trotz and Lou don't seem to be enough.  Tavares played on some really bad NYI teams.    Guys likely going to pass the Sedins in points before he's done and have over 500 goals.   So not sure what your going on about.   Whenever i read your posts, this is what i see, maybe that's the point but if so / well hilarious.   At least your consistent.   But wouldn't it be more fun if you decided not to be the class clown? I bet you'd have some good insights.  

I'm saying that the distraction being gone helped.