Jester13 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: I wonder more about Quinn trying the right-side than OEL. When Quinn was drafted there was a bunch of articles stating he said he felt fine on both sides, I can't remember the source for most but Daily Hive still has this: He's so creative and dynamic that it wouldn't surprise me really if his zone exits and transition game stayed similar, defensively he's more about positioning and reading plays than having a solid stick - saying that, he does that too. Not that this means too much as they're different players, but Luke Hughes often played the right side in college too - and they did/do train and practice together. OEL - Hughes Rathbone - Myers Dermott - Schenn de Haan, Burroughs Could be an interesting experiment. Rathbone and Myers showed some chemistry in their extremely limited TOI together in the 2020-2021 season under a terrible defensive system/structure (thx Baumer), and Boner has only improved. Most likely the OEL - Hughes pairing would just have to play 35 mins a night tho . If Dermott can sustain his play from last year in a larger role, he could be considered in the top-4, IMO it's not impossible: OEL - Hughes Dermott - Myers Rathbone - de Haan Schenn, Burroughs But a combo of Dermott and either Myers or de Haan doesn't really sit well with me - all three players have pretty bad giveaway tendencies. OEL has a better shot than Hughes, so I could see OEL fitting better on the right side with Hughes throwing saucy saucers for one timers. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ilduce39 Posted August 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) I’m glad this rumour keeps sticking around. Just a nice depth piece and while the left side has a lot of names, no one is a defensive minded player and a lot of them seem capable of playing on the right. Much like our forward group, Bruce will have a ton of options with what to do with our D. I’ve talked about and have seen others mention the: Hughes-OEL De Haan-Myers Rathbone-Schenn but OEL-Myers Hughes-Schenn De-Haan-Dermott I think people made too much about the D being bad last year - post Baumgartner the pairings worked. (And actually I think the real issue was always just the PK?) De-Haan-Dermott could be a very nice bottom pair capable of a steady 17-18 minutes a night. And, again, there’s more than a few ways you could slice this up after camp assuming Poolman is healthy as well. Edited August 16, 2022 by ilduce39 1 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_theRyper Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: I wonder more about Quinn trying the right-side than OEL. When Quinn was drafted there was a bunch of articles stating he said he felt fine on both sides, I can't remember the source for most but Daily Hive still has this: He's so creative and dynamic that it wouldn't surprise me really if his zone exits and transition game stayed similar, defensively he's more about positioning and reading plays than having a solid stick - saying that, he does that too. Not that this means too much as they're different players, but Luke Hughes often played the right side in college too - and they did/do train and practice together. OEL - Hughes Rathbone - Myers Dermott - Schenn de Haan, Burroughs Could be an interesting experiment. Rathbone and Myers showed some chemistry in their extremely limited TOI together in the 2020-2021 season under a terrible defensive system/structure (thx Baumer), and Boner has only improved. Most likely the OEL - Hughes pairing would just have to play 35 mins a night tho . If Dermott can sustain his play from last year in a larger role, he could be considered in the top-4, IMO it's not impossible: OEL - Hughes Dermott - Myers Rathbone - de Haan Schenn, Burroughs But a combo of Dermott and either Myers or de Haan doesn't really sit well with me - all three players have pretty bad giveaway tendencies. "Hey Beavis this guy said boner, haha haha haha haha" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RakuRaku Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Let's sign both De Haan and Victor Rask to a.cheap 1-yr deal!! Low risk, decent reward and never too much depth for D and centre!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 On 8/16/2022 at 11:10 AM, Jester13 said: OEL has a better shot than Hughes, so I could see OEL fitting better on the right side with Hughes throwing saucy saucers for one timers. So ..... you don't want EP doing that? I'm pretty sure EP has the better shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 44 minutes ago, Viper007 said: So ..... you don't want EP doing that? I'm pretty sure EP has the better shot. I think @Jester13was talking 5-on-5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Ilya Mikheyev said: I think @Jester13was talking 5-on-5 Maybe .... it's real tough to get a good one timer playing 5 on 5. Especially when passing point to point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 Sounds like Poolman still having headaches so I think they're looking for a bottom pairing replacement. That top 4 guy isn't coming, we'll probably just roll 1 great top pairing defenceman (Hughes), 2 good top 4 guys and a bunch of bottom pairing defencemen and hope one of Schenn and Dermott can play alongside Hughes from time to time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 De Haan seems more like a PTO candidate IMO. Gives Rathbone some competition in camp and could be insurance if Poolman isn't good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alienhuggyflow Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 On 8/10/2022 at 5:02 PM, aGENT said: Have to wonder...since they haven't been able to fix the RD, and there's been talk all summer about shifting OEL to the right, I wonder if this is more about getting a solid D partner to cover for Myers... Hughes, OEL DeHaan, Myers Rathbone/Dermott, Schenn Not a horrible D and probably more cohesive pairings. Good point. I've been curious to see OEL with Quinn but my only worry is, does it impact Myers game to the point its not worth it? It also means our two best D on one pairing which worries me. Of course if Rathbone or someone else like a good old Dutch boy De-Hann can come in and keep Myers in the same form as last year, than it might work. In that scenario we would need a good puck mover from the Dzone which from my eyes Myers struggles with in certain situations. Quinn - OEL Dermott- Myers Rathbone- De-Haan I think Dermott moves the puck well enough to get top 4 minutes from Rathbone (at least for now) thought he played well after the trade. Rathbone is the real wildcard imo. If he shows anything close too his season in Abby, forcing himself into the top 4 at some point, than it makes even more sense to have OEL switch. He plays the right- side internationally and said he's just as comfortable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilya Mikheyev Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 16 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: OMG YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podkolzins Snipe Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 On 8/16/2022 at 1:04 PM, ilduce39 said: I’m glad this rumour keeps sticking around. Just a nice depth piece and while the left side has a lot of names, no one is a defensive minded player and a lot of them seem capable of playing on the right. Much like our forward group, Bruce will have a ton of options with what to do with our D. I’ve talked about and have seen others mention the: Hughes-OEL De Haan-Myers Rathbone-Schenn but OEL-Myers Hughes-Schenn De-Haan-Dermott I think people made too much about the D being bad last year - post Baumgartner the pairings worked. (And actually I think the real issue was always just the PK?) De-Haan-Dermott could be a very nice bottom pair capable of a steady 17-18 minutes a night. And, again, there’s more than a few ways you could slice this up after camp assuming Poolman is healthy as well. I really agree with your statement that the Canucks defense was not as bad as fans and media made it out to be. I think for anyone that has watched the games very closely and has a great understanding of the game could see that a major amount of the problem wasnt actually the defense it was frequently on the forwards. Obviously on the defensive side overall it didn't help that Baumgartner who was an absolutely horrible mistake prone liability when he played was in charge lol. My opinion is that a lot of the problems were really how bad/weak that the forwards on the team were at keeping possession all over the ice especially in the opponents zone which obviously makes it much easier on the defense when you're on offense more, I think the forwards turned pucks over way too often, were definitely not good at playing sound defensive hockey, the forwards were very bad at killing penalties, lost way too many puck battles, bad at getting pucks out of the zone and being way too easy to play against all over the ice and just allowing too many odd man rushes to name a few things. You watch the best teams all 5 players play together and their forwards don't struggle at all with the things that I mentioned or if the do it's rarely. On a positive note I think in time because most of this group is young I expect these important details will get much better especially with the better coaching they'll now receive and at times last season fortunately you can already see them learning these details and part of this will be just getting physically stronger with age. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Podkolzins Snipe said: I really agree with your statement that the Canucks defense was not as bad as fans and media made it out to be. I think for anyone that has watched the games very closely and has a great understanding of the game could see that a major amount of the problem wasnt actually the defense it was frequently on the forwards. Obviously on the defensive side overall it didn't help that Baumgartner who was an absolutely horrible mistake prone liability when he played was in charge lol. My opinion is that a lot of the problems were really how bad/weak that the forwards on the team were at keeping possession all over the ice especially in the opponents zone which obviously makes it much easier on the defense when you're on offense more, I think the forwards turned pucks over way too often, were definitely not good at playing sound defensive hockey, the forwards were very bad at killing penalties, lost way too many puck battles, bad at getting pucks out of the zone and being way too easy to play against all over the ice and just allowing too many odd man rushes to name a few things. You watch the best teams all 5 players play together and their forwards don't struggle at all with the things that I mentioned or if the do it's rarely. On a positive note I think in time because most of this group is young I expect these important details will get much better especially with the better coaching they'll now receive and at times last season fortunately you can already see them learning these details and part of this will be just getting physically stronger with age. Boudreau said he didn’t do much with the systems when he took over because he just wanted to focus on the players confidence level. So essentially what we were seeing was a carry over from Baumgartner and co’s system. Starting strong from training camp will hopefully make a difference. Yeo will get on the forwards to play the right way. And hopefully Cull can bring a new energy to that D corps. I agree that the D is not as bad as people are making it out to be. I see teams that get by with less than us because of their depth up front. It’s all about just finding the right pairings from the get go and letting them build chemistry. If OEL and Hughes can pair together that could be a legit top pairing. Then we just need a second pair that doesn’t hurt us with a combo of Myers and Dermott, De Haan, Poolman, or Schenn. Theres enough there that if the forwards are doing their job and the D keep it simple that we should be able to take advantage of teams with our forward depth and great goaltending. Edited August 20, 2022 by DeNiro 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Podkolzins Snipe said: I really agree with your statement that the Canucks defense was not as bad as fans and media made it out to be. I think for anyone that has watched the games very closely and has a great understanding of the game could see that a major amount of the problem wasnt actually the defense it was frequently on the forwards. Obviously on the defensive side overall it didn't help that Baumgartner who was an absolutely horrible mistake prone liability when he played was in charge lol. My opinion is that a lot of the problems were really how bad/weak that the forwards on the team were at keeping possession all over the ice especially in the opponents zone which obviously makes it much easier on the defense when you're on offense more, I think the forwards turned pucks over way too often, were definitely not good at playing sound defensive hockey, the forwards were very bad at killing penalties, lost way too many puck battles, bad at getting pucks out of the zone and being way too easy to play against all over the ice and just allowing too many odd man rushes to name a few things. You watch the best teams all 5 players play together and their forwards don't struggle at all with the things that I mentioned or if the do it's rarely. On a positive note I think in time because most of this group is young I expect these important details will get much better especially with the better coaching they'll now receive and at times last season fortunately you can already see them learning these details and part of this will be just getting physically stronger with age. On 8/16/2022 at 12:04 PM, ilduce39 said: I’m glad this rumour keeps sticking around. Just a nice depth piece and while the left side has a lot of names, no one is a defensive minded player and a lot of them seem capable of playing on the right. Much like our forward group, Bruce will have a ton of options with what to do with our D. I’ve talked about and have seen others mention the: Hughes-OEL De Haan-Myers Rathbone-Schenn but OEL-Myers Hughes-Schenn De-Haan-Dermott I think people made too much about the D being bad last year - post Baumgartner the pairings worked. (And actually I think the real issue was always just the PK?) De-Haan-Dermott could be a very nice bottom pair capable of a steady 17-18 minutes a night. And, again, there’s more than a few ways you could slice this up after camp assuming Poolman is healthy as well. The defense itself, now, isn't awful. Probably about 15-20th in the league. Average or slightly below. And yes, the forwards and general team structure both need to improve too. Absolutely. The real problem is that it's presently poorly structured with one of our top 4, Myers, being an ill fit with either of our top 4 LHD (Hughes/OEL). While him and OEL were certainly effective defensively for the most part, having to cover Myers occasional "chaos giraffe" tendencies, basically neutered OEL's offensive game, all year. We're not paying him $7m of cap to babysit and we're not putting him in the best position to get the most of that $7m. Then on top of that, Hughes' partner Schenn, while playing ADMIRABLY with him, is probably better suited to a depth role. A better partner likely gets more out of Hughes as well. And Schenn expires this coming season. Myers the one after. Neither are getting younger either making extensions highly questionable (even if they were better fits). We're two season away from something like Poolman, Juulsen and Woo as our right side depth. That's not good any way you slice it. We have a poorly structured, ill fitting and expensive D that isn't getting the most out of its two best players, and no succession plan to replace those expiring pieces. So while, in the present, it's certainly not bottom of the league bad... there's a LOT of room for improvement in fit/complementary partners, and near dire need to create some sort of succession plan. THAT is what people talk about when they say "our D sucks/needs fixing". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, aGENT said: The defense itself, now, isn't awful. Probably about 15-20th in the league. Average or slightly below. And yes, the forwards and general team structure both need to improve too. Absolutely. The real problem is that it's presently poorly structured with one of our top 4, Myers, being an ill fit with either of our top 4 LHD (Hughes/OEL). While him and OEL were certainly effective defensively for the most part, having to cover Myers occasional "chaos giraffe" tendencies, basically neutered OEL's offensive game, all year. We're not paying him $7m of cap to babysit and we're not putting him in the best position to get the most of that $7m. ... And Schenn expires this coming season. Myers the one after. Neither are getting younger either making extensions highly questionable (even if they were better fits). We're two season away from something like Poolman, Juulsen and Woo as our right side depth. That's not good any way you slice it. We have a poorly structured, ill fitting and expensive D that isn't getting the most out of its two best players, and no succession plan to replace those expiring pieces. So while, in the present, it's certainly not bottom of the league bad... there's a LOT of room for improvement in fit/complementary partners, and near dire need to create some sort of succession plan. Agreed, our defense is league average but has some bad fits on it HOWEVER that's the job of our coaching; to find better fits. I am excited to see what Trent Cull will think of it and how the defense pairs will shake out. I have no reason to believe that we will be worst then last year on D. Being league average on defense with our deep forward group and Demko should give us a good chance to attain our goal this year: playoffs. Now as far as future, I'll have room for Schenn for this year and next in our top 6. Myers will be a good trade piece after this year and if we do decide to keep him then I can see him re-signing for 2 mil/year to be our 3rd pair guy as his career winds down. Woo and Myrenberg are lottery tickets and Juulsen can be our 7th dman righty if he stays healthy for a few years. We will have to sign a RD free agent or make a trade, no other way around it. 100% agree that something will have to happen on that front to improve this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ilduce39 Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 (edited) Yeah, FWIW De Haan likely doesn’t “fix” the defence’s need for a top pairing RHD (unless he absolutely kills it with Myers and OEL/Hughes take off together.) It should open up some options since he can play both sides and is a defensive-oriented player, something we don’t have on the left side. I also buy that a chunk of the team’s defensive struggle can be improved by better support from the forward group. Hopefully that’s something Mikhayev can help with along with some continuity with Boudreau. We aren’t going to be known as a stingy, shutdown group but if they buy in they could do alright. A deep forward group, elite goaltending and two elite offensive defencemen in Hughes and OEL? We’ve had worse rosters for sure. Talent-wise this group really reminds me of the WCE era Canucks (not in roster construction, but a group that has some very high end pieces and should scrap for a playoff spot.). Luckily the high end pieces are young enough that we can continue to tinker around them. Edited August 21, 2022 by ilduce39 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 10 hours ago, ilduce39 said: Yeah, FWIW De Haan likely doesn’t “fix” the defence’s need for a top pairing RHD (unless he absolutely kills it with Myers and OEL/Hughes take off together.) It should open up some options since he can play both sides and is a defensive-oriented player, something we don’t have on the left side. I also buy that a chunk of the team’s defensive struggle can be improved by better support from the forward group. Hopefully that’s something Mikhayev can help with along with some continuity with Boudreau. We aren’t going to be known as a stingy, shutdown group but if they buy in they could do alright. A deep forward group, elite goaltending and two elite offensive defencemen in Hughes and OEL? We’ve had worse rosters for sure. Talent-wise this group really reminds me of the WCE era Canucks (not in roster construction, but a group that has some very high end pieces and should scrap for a playoff spot.). Luckily the high end pieces are young enough that we can continue to tinker around them. Also reminiscent is that the WCE era Canucks were up against the former Nordiques (Colorado) with Sakic & Co the absolute top team in the league. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Goal:thecup said: Also reminiscent is that the WCE era Canucks were up against the former Nordiques (Colorado) with Sakic & Co the absolute top team in the league. Cloutier vs Demko, I'll take Demko in a heart beat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Per Drance/Dhaliwal we’re in a small mix of teams in the running to land DeHaan. They also said the club is optimistic that Poolman will be ready this year. Hopefully we have both to start the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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