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Analyzing and ranking how the Canucks’ defence currently stacks up against the rest of the Pacific Division

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1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Teams know it and will exploit plays up the left wing or criss-cross into the middle and create space.  

My other concern is teams know the lack of bite on the backend.

 

Run Demmer and the d all night long. Scheen can only do so much.

Edited by Chris12345
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Definitions, 1,3,5 are generally more complete players on the 3 pairs of defensemen.  In other words, they have offensive ability and they are defensively responsible when they have to be.  2,4,6 D are less complete but tend to be able to fill a defensive role and back up an offensive talent.  This is the definition as explained by Ray Ferraro.

 

The Canucks are missing a top 4 RHD.  Specifically, a partner for Hughes.

 

Second, OEL is a first rate #3 and would likely be a #1 on many teams.  Myers is an offensive, 2nd pair D.  By definition a #3 as well.  They are not a good match

 

Schenn is a good stay at home, 3rd pair man who is usually in the right position and plays a physical game when required.  #6

 

Dermott is a nice skater, plays well positionally and move the puck decently.  Fine as a 6. 

 

Rathbone, same, offensive flair.  Fine as a 5

 

Burroughs, similar to Schenn, a little less good /  experienced,  6

 

So we see, they're really missing 1 piece.  It's not optimal but it's an important piece by depth.  Filling it will make a world of difference but missing it is not a disaster.

 

FWIW, Tanev would fit nicely into the missing role for the medium term.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

^ this.

 

OEL is a very good LD.  He is a solid #2 LD on virtually every NHL team.

 

He should get more props from fans here. He makes 1M more than he would be if he were a steal. 

 

 

 Is hard for fans to appreciate him when half our media claim OEL to have one of the worst contract in NHL:sadno:

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1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

My other concern is teams know the lack of bite on the backend.

 

Run Demmer and the d all night long. Scheen can only do so much.

Myers, OEL, and Burroughs definitely didn't let other teams take any liberties.  

 

I had more of an issue with a lack of pushback from our forwards.  Curtis Lazar and Dakota Joshua replacing Highmore and Lammikko will definitely help.  Hopefully Lockwood can be in the mix as well. 

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11 hours ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

The Canucks have the franchise goaltender that they need to be true Stanley Cup contenders. They have a forward group that features high-end talent as well as depth throughout. They have a defence group that could lead a team to the Calder Cup.

 

While that’s being dramatic, the Canucks do have a very weak defence corps that is holding the team back. While Quinn Hughes is the most electric defenceman the franchise has ever seen, behind him, the team features a mix of unproven youngsters and overpaid veterans.

 

If the Canucks want to contend for one of the three Pacific Division playoff spots that are up for grabs, they’re going to need to hope that the defence plays well enough to keep them in games. Do they have the talent to best their Pacific Division opponents?

 

Each team will be graded on two categories (best defenceman and best defence depth) with points being handed out for the team’s ranking within the division. All the points will be tabulated at the bottom of the article and it will be scored like golf.

 

Anaheim Ducks

Best Defenceman: John Klingberg – 6th

After being linked to the Vancouver Canucks as a possible match, John Klingberg eventually signed a deal with the division rival Anaheim Ducks. He’s a smooth skater, a player that can create offence from the blue line, and a veteran presence in the room. While those characteristics may not have made him a great fit for Vancouver, he’s instantly the best defenceman on the Ducks.

 

Best Depth: 7th

The Ducks have a few solid defencemen but the position group gets thin near the bottom. Jamie Drysdale is a great young prospect and Cam Fowler had a solid season, but the bottom three players are nothing to write home about. Kevin Shattenkirk is not the player he once was.

 

Calgary Flames

Best Defenceman: Noah Hanifin – 4th

The Calgary Flames boast a deep defence corps filled with young players that are just about to hit their prime. Hanifin is the best of the bunch. He chews up minutes at even strength and features on the power play and penalty kill as well. He managed to get 48 points last season while also being helpful in every situation. Hanifin is firmly in the middle of all the top Pacific Division defencemen at the moment, but in a few years, he should be closer to the top.

 

Best Defence Depth: 1st

Even when the Flames were staring down the possibility of losing Matthew Tkachuk for a minimal return, they still could rely on the fact that they have a great defence corps. Adding Mackenzie Weegar to that group is an added bonus that makes the team even stronger. The Flames have a very balanced defence group that most NHL teams are jealous of.

 

Edmonton Oilers

Best Defenceman: Darnell Nurse – 3rd

One of the more controversial players in the NHL, Darnell Nurse was handed a massive $9.25 million contract by the Edmonton Oilers. While it’s going to be tough for him to live up to that deal, Nurse is still a good player. He’s pretty dynamic offensively and at 6’4″ has the size to push out opponents. However, he’s been critiqued for his defensive play, specifically against the rush, and while he did get better last season, he’s still not as strong as the top two in this division.

 

Best Depth: 5th

The Oilers slide in at number five on this list but they do have a couple of regression candidates to keep an eye on. One of those is Cody Ceci who had a solid season last year but has yet to prove across his career that he can be relied upon in a top-four role. Evan Bouchard and Phillip Broberg are both young players that could take a step forward this season.

 

Los Angeles Kings

Best Defenceman: Drew Doughty – 5th

Once one of the best defencemen on planet earth, Doughty is now in the later stages of his career. Even though he is getting older and isn’t the player he once was, Doughty can still have a positive impact on the ice. He had a bounce back year this past season that was unfortunately cut short due to a variety of injuries. If he can stay healthy, Doughty figures to once again be the leader on the Kings blueline.

 

Best Depth: 4th 

Take a look at the Kings defence depth chart and a familiar face is sitting there. Alex Edler is a veteran presence for the Kings and while he’s fallen off a step, he’s still a solid third pairing guy. The Kings are rich in right-handed defencemen, including some prospects that have yet to break the NHL, one of the most valuable position groups across the league.

 

San Jose Sharks

Best Defenceman: Erik Karlsson – 8th

Similar to Doughty, Karlsson was once one of the most dynamic blueliners in the NHL, and likely one of the most dynamic in modern NHL history. After signing a massive deal in San Jose, Karlsson’s play has fallen off a cliff. A slight resurgence last year, thought not not to the same level as Doughty, means that Karlsson is still the best Sharks defenceman. However, there isn’t a ton of competition.

 

Depth: 8th

The San Jose Sharks defence group is a graveyard of former impact players. Karlsson’s decline has been documented but Marc-Edouard Vlasic is another former contributor who is now an overpaid burden. The Sharks are firmly in rebuilding mode and their defence looks a lot more bleak than the solid but not great forwards.

 

Seattle Kraken 

Best Defenceman: Vince Dunn – 7th

The Seattle Kraken have a variety of good but not great defencemen that could have taken this position. Dunn was the team’s best last season so he holds the title for now. With 35 points in 71 games last season, Dunn was able to chip in offensively. The Kraken had a tough year and were caved in by most teams, making life difficult for their defencemen.

 

Depth: 3rd

In classic expansion team fashion, the Kraken lack star power but have solid depth throughout. Adam Larsson is not a superstar but he is someone that can put up points and be effective while eating up minutes. The Kraken also signed Justin Schultz this offseason, a right-handed defenceman that has aged really well in the NHL, especially in regards to his play in his own zone.

 

Vancouver Canucks

Best Defenceman: Quinn Hughes – 1st 

Quinn Hughes is the most dynamic defenceman to ever wear the Canucks jersey and will rewrite every franchise record by the time that he is done playing. While his sophomore season saw many of his defensive metrics drop, this past year Hughes was more responsible in his own zone and had a stronger two-way profile. He’s one of the best defencemen across the entire league and there’s still another gear for him to hit.

 

Depth: 6th

The Canucks have a huge lack of defence depth. It’s probably the most glaring hole across the entire roster. The right side is especially bad with journeyman Luke Schenn likely playing first line minutes to start the season and Tyler Myers playing the role of complete minute-cruncher. It will be interesting to see if Jack Rathbone or Travis Dermott can emerge this season as reliable options.

 

Vegas Golden Knights

Best Defenceman: Alex Pietrangelo – 2nd 

Last season was a funky one for the Golden Knights who struggled through injury issues on their way to a surprising playoff miss. This season the team will be gearing up for a deep playoff run and Pietrangelo figures to play a major role. Even in what was considered a down year, Pietrangelo managed to record 44 points. More stability around him this year should be a positive for Pietrangelo.

Depth: 2nd

The Golden Knights have great depth throughout their defence group. Shea Theodore is a creative offensive defenceman that shows up on the scoresheet. The franchise has handled the development of Nicolas Hague extremely well and he will likely only improve over the next few years. Alec Martinez is a veteran warrior that will put his body on the line in any situation. Overall, a very solid group.

 

Final Rankings

Tier 1

1st: Vegas Golden Knights (2 + 2) = 4

2nd: Calgary Flames (4 + 1) = 5

 

Tier 2

3rd: Vancouver Canucks (1 + 6) = 7

4th: Edmonton Oilers (3 + 5) = 8

5th: Los Angeles Kings (5 + 4) = 9

6th: Seattle Kraken (7 + 3) = 10

Tier 3

7th: Anaheim Ducks (6 + 7) = 13

8th: San Jose Sharks (8 + 8) = 16

 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2022/08/13/analyzing-ranking-how-canucks-defence-currently-stack-against-rest-pacific-division/

Wasn't this on CanucksArmy or fansided? Something like that?

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1 hour ago, mordekai said:

 Is hard for fans to appreciate him when half our media claim OEL to have one of the worst contract in NHL:sadno:

Maybe not the worst but it's the contract that is hurting the Canucks' contract efficiency as written in The Athletic

 

https://theathletic.com/3467384/2022/08/03/nhl-contract-rankings/

 

OEL has the worst contract value in the team next to, no surprise, Myers. 

 

The article values OEL should have an AAV of just over 4 million and Myers just over 2 Million. Which basically makes OEL a #4 and #5 and Myers a #5 and #6 defensemen which many in the media and the nhl already precieve. 

 

However if we are talking bout this coming season then yes I suppose OEL is still ok and does help the defense. But the problem isn't so much what happens this coming season but in the next few seasons when Allvin has to resign players but can't since OEL is being overpaid by $4 Million per year.

 

As for the ranking of defense of the Pacific division Sportsnet 650 already did that recently.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/peoples-show/hour-2-ranking-the-pacific-division-defensive-units/

 

Calgary and Vegas were set to #1 and #2 while Vancouver was, depending on was being asked, ranked #5 and #6 with LA, Edmonton, and Anaheim (for the one who picked Canucks are #6) ahead of them.

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Quantum said:

I'd make the argument that MacKenzie Weegar is the Calgary Flames best defenseman not Noah Hanifin. Weegar is an established #2 NHL defenseman who has the chance to be the #1 guy in Calgary.

Theodore in Vegas vs Alex P as well.   Once he's in his peak prime ... but for now at least, took a back seat so far.   Look at what he managed as their number one PP guy etc ... all around very good top two. 

 

As for the OP article, no glaring disagreement here.    So we are third best D in the division ... wonder where our forward group stacks up, and of course goaltending?   Once you consider that, and how both EDM and VAN did after their coaching changes (and of course EDM added E Kane, off ice stuff aside, that was a big add for them)...it's why i believe it's going to be a dogfight between these two clubs for first in the division.  CAL is worse.   Vegas lost all their depth lol... and now no Lehner.    Last year key injuries to key guys messed them up ... i doubt Eichel is enough for them to have a rebound.   Oh how the mighty have fallen.   CAL also ... well guess these guys aren't too happy to play with Sutter lol...and wonder about Tanev and Markstrom being able to play the games they need too as well.    If they are healthy then for sure add them to the mix with us and EDM but they aren't going to have a season like they did last year either.  

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26 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Was this assessment done by people who actually understand the game or by analytics dweebs?

I mean guys who do it for a living. I mean yeah sometimes the media and expert analysis can be wrong but the analysis seems fair neither over valuing or under valuing the Canucks.

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11 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Myers, OEL, and Burroughs definitely didn't let other teams take any liberties.  

 

I had more of an issue with a lack of pushback from our forwards.  Curtis Lazar and Dakota Joshua replacing Highmore and Lammikko will definitely help.  Hopefully Lockwood can be in the mix as well. 

Yea they pushed back but they aren't remotely intimidating.

 

That's not a knock on them I just think they need more bite. OEL shouldn't be providing bite.

 

 

Edited by Chris12345
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11 hours ago, mordekai said:

 Is hard for fans to appreciate him when half our media claim OEL to have one of the worst contract in NHL:sadno:

For what he did in Arizona he certainly was one of the worst contracts that only a few teams were willing to take on (and only in exchange for Arizona assets). Let's hope here it's all smooth sailing here with a supportive environment.

 

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On 8/14/2022 at 3:06 PM, Quantum said:

I'd make the argument that MacKenzie Weegar is the Calgary Flames best defenseman not Noah Hanifin. Weegar is an established #2 NHL defenseman who has the chance to be the #1 guy in Calgary.

Tanev is better than both

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20 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Definitions, 1,3,5 are generally more complete players on the 3 pairs of defensemen.  In other words, they have offensive ability and they are defensively responsible when they have to be.  2,4,6 D are less complete but tend to be able to fill a defensive role and back up an offensive talent.  This is the definition as explained by Ray Ferraro.

 

The Canucks are missing a top 4 RHD.  Specifically, a partner for Hughes.

Second, OEL is a first rate #3 and would likely be a #1 on many teams.  Myers is an offensive, 2nd pair D.  By definition a #3 as well.  They are not a good match

Schenn is a good stay at home, 3rd pair man who is usually in the right position and plays a physical game when required.  #6

Dermott is a nice skater, plays well positionally and move the puck decently.  Fine as a 6. 

Rathbone, same, offensive flair.  Fine as a 5

Burroughs, similar to Schenn, a little less good /  experienced,  6

So we see, they're really missing 1 piece.  It's not optimal but it's an important piece by depth.  Filling it will make a world of difference but missing it is not a disaster.

FWIW, Tanev would fit nicely into the missing role for the medium term.  

If Hughes shifts to the right and OEL moves up, I'd think that we'd really only need a stay-at-home LD to partner with Myers and we'd probably look pretty good (OEL's shown that he can hang back and cover weaker defensemen than Hughes so they should be a good pair).  Someone like a healthy De Haan next to Myers on a minimal deal would probably be good, since he brings the defensive play that OEL did to buffer Myers as he roamed and did his thing up ice (with this pair hope Tyler can also replicate his stability from last season).  Then Rathbone - Schenn with #7 Dermott would probably be a good group.

OEL - Hughes // De Haan - Myers // Rathbone - Schenn; Dermott, Poolman 

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2 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

If Hughes shifts to the right and OEL moves up, I'd think that we'd really only need a stay-at-home LD to partner with Myers and we'd probably look pretty good (OEL's shown that he can hang back and cover weaker defensemen than Hughes so they should be a good pair).  Someone like a healthy De Haan next to Myers on a minimal deal would probably be good, since he brings the defensive play that OEL did to buffer Myers as he roamed and did his thing up ice (with this pair hope Tyler can also replicate his stability from last season).  Then Rathbone - Schenn with #7 Dermott would probably be a good group.

OEL - Hughes // De Haan - Myers // Rathbone - Schenn; Dermott, Poolman 

I wouldn't be surprised if they do this while they continue trying to land that top 4 RHD

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14 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they do this while they continue trying to land that top 4 RHD

Really don't think it's a bad idea for roster fit (even if they put Hughes back with Schenn it's not bad, essentially we'd still be doing similar to what the Rangers have been doing, pairing a smallish but mobile and all-round reliable Adam Fox with a dependable depth D-partner in Lindgren).  Hughes is that good that he can still carry his own pair.

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