[Value of] Rasmus Sandin/ Justin Holl, a.k.a. Leafs-Canucks

[Phil_314]

Happy Friday, CDC!  I've started to keep an eye on the Sandin situation in Toronto, and I wonder if this is something that our team could look to capitalize.

With 5 of the top-6 D in Toronto largely set (with Rielly/ Muzzin/ Giordano/ Liljegren/ Brodie), I wonder if either/ both of these guys could be targets for Vancouver. 
Sandin, though only 5'11", 183 lb., is a good skater and also has that "dog" in him (he'd laid some big hits so far in his career despite being smaller in stature).  The problem is, it looks like he's threatening to sit out as he waits for a $1.5 to $2 million new contract.    
Holl as a 3rd pair D at $2 million has been deemed as pricey by some of their local media, esp. when the RD is probably set (Gio/ Liljegren/ Brodie), but he's still been able to play big minutes and produce (23 pts./ 69 games, 20 minutes a night last season, plus he's 6'4", 210 lb.).

With the premise that the Leafs are above the cap as it is, I wanted to discuss the feasibility of acquiring either or both of these guys.  
- in another proposal, I raised the suggestion of Holl ($2 million, pending UFA) for Poolman (presuming he's LTIR, then the Leafs would have $2.5 m * 3 years)
- if the contract discussion with Sandin goes well into the season, and presuming Rathbone stays on the fringes of the roster, I would suggest Jack ($850k * 2 years) for Rasmus' rights (or they can have Dermott back at $1.5 million if they want to retain more of a two-way presence in their bottom pair)

TL;DR: Poolman ($2.5 million * 3, on LTIR) + Rathbone ($850k * 2 years) for Sandin (presume he re-signs for $1.5 million) and Holl ($2 million * 1 year)

What are your thoughts, CDC?  Are my proposals reasonable, do they need a minor add either way, or am I out to lunch?  Which team says no?
Any Leafs fans, also feel free to chime in with constructive feedback (admittedly I'm not the most well versed into the Leafs' team needs), including whether this would be a realistic way to improve the Canucks blueline.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Phil_314

[Ghostsof1915]

Depends if Vancouver is on Holl's no trade list. That's kind of a big gamble to lose Rathbone.

[Drakrami]

I like how you say Leafs think Holl is too expensive at 2million and then shove a 2.5mil x 3 years of Poolman to them. 

[Phil_314]

24 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

I like how you say Leafs think Holl is too expensive at 2million and then shove a 2.5mil x 3 years of Poolman to them. 

The presumption is that Poolman's career may be done given injury.  LTIR during the season creates an amount that the team can go over the salary cap during the regular season (a.k.a. it affords them $2.5 million cap space over the cap). 

[hammertime]

1 minute ago, Phil_314 said:

The presumption is that Poolman's career may be done given injury.  LTIR during the season creates an amount that the team can go over the salary cap during the regular season (a.k.a. it affords them $2.5 million cap space over the cap). 

aka Poolman

[AK_19]

This is the first proposal here I've actually liked!

[CanucksCountry]

Not the biggest fan of Holl feels like he'd been an older version of Poolman while us not having the benefit of Poolman being on LTIR, Sadin is an upgrade on Rathbone how ever rather trade Rathbone+ for a guy like severson instead 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, CanucksCountry said:

Not the biggest fan of Holl feels like he'd been an older version of Poolman while us not having the benefit of Poolman being on LTIR, Sadin is an upgrade on Rathbone how ever rather trade Rathbone+ for a guy like severson instead 

Severson is a great rental this year ... and could easily become a Myers replacement if we want to re-sign him (which i assume we would - and i'm sure he'd be interested given his BC ties)...

 

Rathbone is NHL ready, and a little beast in the gym (not tiny arms legs flat chest QHs style there) - but we can't and shouldn't be playing both him and QHs on the left side either.   Every team in the league would know to go to that side because 2/3 of the time they won't have to deal with OEL who's not exactly he-man either.   So he's expendable (which is too bad because he's got a lot of potential to be say, someone's teams Girard).    Can't pass up on Severson if the price isn't too steep.    NJ will likely trade him, or let him walk for nothing if they are in a solid playoff spot (doubt they will be in that conference...but bubble possibly). 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

Like we discussed in another thread - I actually think Justin Holl is a bit underrated. He really got called out once by Keefe in the media and it seems like they've had trouble moving him since then. His stats aren't bad, even for a second pairing guy, other than his giveaway line being a bit high - but so are other targets the Canucks have in mind that I like, like Calvin de Haan.

 

Holl in a diminished, no pressure bottom-pairing role seems like a good target to me. The Canucks are already desperate for a decent right-sided defenseman, and if Myers (MYERS ugh, this team desperately needs a top-4 RHD to make it a dent in the playoffs) gets injured at all the depth isn't a great picture. Holl is physical and has decent traits in all three zones, could step up in case of injury, and might be improve with a coach he's not in the doghouse with - he's been coached for by Keefe for most of his pro career dating back to his Marlies days.

 

Saying that, there's no way I would give up Rathbone for him. I'm really stoked on what Rathbone can bring to the table, and having him and Holl as the bottom-pairing seems like the logical outcome to this trade.

 

If the Leafs are moving Holl as a straight cap dump, I'd like to see maybe a 4th round pick 2024 for Holl-10% and then waiving Burroughs to start the year (preferably extending him for one year first to lower the waiver wire risk as he's been great in his role). The Leafs dump 1.8 million without adding a sweetener and the Canucks get pretty good value on a RHD who might look better in a different system - but would be a good pairing, physical, 2 way defenseman and partner for Rathbone regardless. If somehow the Canucks are sellers at the deadline Holl @ 900k would get likely get Allvin could possibly pick up another 2023 pick.

 

 

 

I know this will be controversial on this forum (@King Heffy gonna literally kill me) but I actually think the Leafs' D was overall better last year than they seem on paper because their goaltending brought them down. I know some analysts think Soup is a good goalie - but his WAR is literally negative lol, his goals saved above average (for goalies with 10+ games) was 42nd place (in the negative...unlike....Jaro Halak.................) and his high danger SVP is also below average, his 'normal' stats are also just completely average (GAA and SVP) - I think Soup is gonna be a complete disaster in Edmonton where they only have 1 top-4 defenseman -- unless you really stretch the argument to count Bouchard as a top-4 guy, but it's not for his defensive play lol.

[King Heffy]

Burroughs is a better player than Holl, no reason to waive him for this pylon.  Any team that plays AHL trash like Rielly, Sandin, and Liljegren does not have a good defence, regardless of what analytics dweebs try to argue.

Edited August 21, 2022 by King Heffy

[canucklehead44]

Holl on paper looks like a solid 4/5 guy on a decent contract who appears to be a fit for us (two way numbers, second pairing minutes, solid on the PK, right handed shot, at only $2M per year). 

But Leafs fans hate the guy - he is Toronto's whipping boy.