[Proposal] Acquiring Chychrun

[Provost]

Now that we have signed Miller, fixing the D is the last big priority for the team.

 

Looking into Chychrun and he can apparently play both sides, so could play on the right where we need help.  He is code controlled for the next three years when we have the biggest cap crunch until the cap starts going up.

 

He would be expensive, but I think with all the smoke about him not being happy… maybe they need to make the move before he holds out from training camp (or maybe that would make Arizona happy).

 

Would you trade:

2023 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

2025 1st round pick 

Poolman

Hoglander 

Dickenson

 

for 

Chychrun 

 

Leaving us with

 

Kuzmenko-Miller-Podkolzin 

Garland-Petterson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Mikheyev

Lockwood (or re-sign Motte)-Lazar-Joshua

Dowling

 

Hughes-Chychrun

OEL-Myers

Dermott-Schenn

Burroughs-Keeper

 

Hefty price to pay in futures, but on the other side… you have to home those 1st round picks end up being really late ones.  With adding Chychrun we have a other young player taking up a roster spot so less desperate need to find help in the prospect pipeline.

 

Tough call…. But that is a pretty solid team and probably even better when Myers rolls off and you can find a better OEL fit for the same money in free agency.

 

[Fanuck]

11 minutes ago, Provost said:

Would you trade:

2023 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

2025 1st round pick 

Poolman

Hoglander 

Dickenson

 

for 

Chychrun 

That would be a complete reversal in organizational strategy after JR stated they are absolutely not interested in parting with high picks though. 

[King Heffy]

I'd want to be absolutely sure that OEL, Hughes, or Chychrun could play the right side with absolutely no dropoff in play.  I'm open to going all-in, and I like Chychrun; I just question the fit.

[PunjabiCanucks]

Looking into the future years- I envision

 

Podkolzin Miller Boeser

Kuzmenko (if he resigns) - Petey - Lekkerimaki

Mikheyev Horvat Garland

 

No space for Pearson long term (yes I know he will lose value) , Hoglander, Klimovich, Karrlsson 

 

the 3 young guys are moveable assets for a D man, and i'd rather package them.

 

However, Garland can be moved for a spot for those 3 young forwards.

 

Garland, Myers (retained for 2 years- if we move him this year), Rathbone and a 2nd rd pick? 

 

for Chychrun, and Littles contract

[NUCKER67]

Trading a 1st is a non-starter

[BarnBurner]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Now that we have signed Miller, fixing the D is the last big priority for the team.

 

Looking into Chychrun and he can apparently play both sides, so could play on the right where we need help.  He is code controlled for the next three years when we have the biggest cap crunch until the cap starts going up.

 

He would be expensive, but I think with all the smoke about him not being happy… maybe they need to make the move before he holds out from training camp (or maybe that would make Arizona happy).

 

Would you trade:

2023 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

2025 1st round pick 

Poolman

Hoglander 

Dickenson

 

for 

Chychrun 

 

Leaving us with

 

Kuzmenko-Miller-Podkolzin 

Garland-Petterson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Mikheyev

Lockwood (or re-sign Motte)-Lazar-Joshua

Dowling

 

Hughes-Chychrun

OEL-Myers

Dermott-Schenn

Burroughs-Keeper

 

Hefty price to pay in futures, but on the other side… you have to home those 1st round picks end up being really late ones.  With adding Chychrun we have a other young player taking up a roster spot so less desperate need to find help in the prospect pipeline.

 

Tough call…. But that is a pretty solid team and probably even better when Myers rolls off and you can find a better OEL fit for the same money in free agency.

 

That is way too much. Wow. 

[Provost]

17 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

That is way too much. Wow. 

Dumping those two contracts in another deal costs you a 1st… so it is a 1st and Hoglander for Chychrun which is certainly not too much.

 

Maybe we don’t want to pay it, but that is the kind of price for #1 D who is 24 and cost controlled to a remarkably team friendly deal.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Provost

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

That would be a complete reversal in organizational strategy after JR stated they are absolutely not interested in parting with high picks though. 

Signing Miller to a long term big dollar contract is also a reversal.  You don’t do that if you think the team needs a lot of work and is at least a couple years away which was the mantra right from the start.

 

Like it or not, that move puts us much closer to the all in type of timeframe where we have to leverage his next 3-4 years of hopefully high end play.

 

Mid/late 1st round picks aren’t the same as high 1st round picks.  We just have to load on prospects with later rounds and fill gaps in the roster with European free agents, college players, and the many veteran players who are available late in the summer for cheap one year deals.

 

We already would have 6 legit top six forwards with three of them centres (assuming Horvat signs), three top 4D, and a high end starting goalie all signed for the foreseeable future.  Add to that supporting guys like Podkolzin, Rathbone, Kuzmenko, Dermott.  This year’s first round pick hopefully ready in 3 years as well.

 

Filling out the bottom of that roster as guys like Myers and Pearson roll off their contracts doesn’t require 1st round picks.

 

I would have preferred to trade Miller and aim for a couple years from now… but with him signed, the overall strategy has to be revised as well.

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Provost

[Blue Jay 22]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Now that we have signed Miller, fixing the D is the last big priority for the team.

 

Looking into Chychrun and he can apparently play both sides, so could play on the right where we need help.  He is code controlled for the next three years when we have the biggest cap crunch until the cap starts going up.

 

He would be expensive, but I think with all the smoke about him not being happy… maybe they need to make the move before he holds out from training camp (or maybe that would make Arizona happy).

 

Would you trade:

2023 1st round pick (top 5 protected)

2025 1st round pick 

Poolman

Hoglander 

Dickenson

 

for 

Chychrun 

 

Leaving us with

 

Kuzmenko-Miller-Podkolzin 

Garland-Petterson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Mikheyev

Lockwood (or re-sign Motte)-Lazar-Joshua

Dowling

 

Hughes-Chychrun

OEL-Myers

Dermott-Schenn

Burroughs-Keeper

 

Hefty price to pay in futures, but on the other side… you have to home those 1st round picks end up being really late ones.  With adding Chychrun we have a other young player taking up a roster spot so less desperate need to find help in the prospect pipeline.

 

Tough call…. But that is a pretty solid team and probably even better when Myers rolls off and you can find a better OEL fit for the same money in free agency.

 

If Chychrun could play on the right, yes. Our defensive depth is bad and overrated on here. Chychrun would be our 2nd best Dman behind Quinn on arrival, and I suspect would see an uptick in offensive and defensive metrics if he were to be traded from Arizona after having played with tomato cans for most of his career. He’s young enough + dumping negative assets would make me comfortable with that price.

[RWJC]

I posted this yesterday in the JTM signing thread, so will post again here:

 

RWJC

Posted 22 hours ago

This may sound off topic and off the wall but hear me out: 

 

Hoglander, Rathbone, a 1st and a 2nd to ARZ for a cost controlled Chychrun.

3 more years at 4.6per.

 

Arizona’s price has apparently come down. 

 

Switch QH or OEL to RHD (experiment), 

Pair Chychrun with either to get his game back and pad his stats this season with us. Hell, he may even become a major piece in getting us into the playoffs.

 

Trade him next season if need be

(he also has an N-MTC 10 team list he can supply) for our future stud RHD. 

The trade package I mention above won’t fetch us that stud now, but a young, star D like Chychrun could in a years time.

 

We might need to do something bold like this to really bring about considerable change, retool the D, and build the value of an asset (with the right support) that we can then trade up/laterally with.

With JTM locked in, Bo about to be, we should be looking at making a deal right now that can make us immediately stronger on the back end and put us in direct competition for top 3 in our division. 

 

In two seasons Myers’ contract will be up. We already have a lot of money invested on the back end, but could effect an upgrade now and set up if we want to shop for our most glaring need in the future. 
 

i realize most aren’t too high on giving up too much for a Chychrun type LHD, but managing assets can get us there if we do it right, while also pushing us much closer to playoffs.

 

thoughts?

 

from July 2021 after the OEL trade:

Chychrun is proof that defencemen can succeed in Arizona. Chychrun was a two-way force at five-on-five last season with a 51.5 percent expected goal share, his actual goal differential was plus-four at five-on-five, he scored 18 goals and 41 points in 56 games and managed all that while logging more minutes and tougher matchups than Ekman-Larsson.

He stepped into the same role Ekman-Larsson had occupied previously and was wildly successful as a bona fide top pair defenceman. 

[Blue Jay 22]

Just now, RWJC said:

I posted this yesterday in the JTM signing thread, so will post again here:

 

 

RWJC

Posted 22 hours ago

This may sound off topic and off the wall but hear me out: 

 

Hoglander, Rathbone, a 1st and a 2nd to ARZ for a cost controlled Chychrun.

3 more years at 4.6per.

 

Arizona’s price has apparently come down. 

 

Switch QH or OEL to RHD (experiment), 

Pair Chychrun with either to get his game back and pad his stats this season with us. Hell, he may even become a major piece in getting us into the playoffs.

 

Trade him next season if need be

(he also has an N-MTC 10 team list he can supply) for our future stud RHD. 

The trade package I mention above won’t fetch us that stud now, but a young, star D like Chychrun could in a years time.

 

We might need to do something bold like this to really bring about considerable change, retool the D, and build the value of an asset (with the right support) that we can then trade up/laterally with.

With JTM locked in, Bo about to be, we should be looking at making a deal right now that can make us immediately stronger on the back end and put us in direct competition for top 3 in our division. 

 

In two seasons Myers’ contract will be up. We already have a lot of money invested on the back end, but could effect an upgrade now and set up if we want to shop for our most glaring need in the future. 
 

i realize most aren’t too high on giving up too much for a Chychrun type LHD, but managing assets can get us there if we do it right, while also pushing us much closer to playoffs.

 

thoughts?

 

from July 2021 after the OEL trade:

Chychrun is proof that defencemen can succeed in Arizona. Chychrun was a two-way force at five-on-five last season with a 51.5 percent expected goal share, his actual goal differential was plus-four at five-on-five, he scored 18 goals and 41 points in 56 games and managed all that while logging more minutes and tougher matchups than Ekman-Larsson.

He stepped into the same role Ekman-Larsson had occupied previously and was wildly successful as a bona fide top pair defenceman. 

In a perfect cap world, your proposal isn’t bad, but with the current cap situations and upcoming extensions for next year, the Nucks would have to include some salary/roster players to balance the books, which will affect the deal. 

[BarnBurner]

16 minutes ago, Provost said:

Dumping those two contracts in another deal costs you a 1st… so it is a 1st and Hoglander for Chychrun which is certainly not too much.

 

Maybe we don’t want to pay it, but that is the kind of price for #1 D who is 24 and cost controlled to a remarkably team friendly deal.

So, forget about dumping the contracts. 

 

Then the deal is solid. 

 

I just want to stop giving up too many 1st round picks. 

[BarnBurner]

7 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I posted this yesterday in the JTM signing thread, so will post again here:

 

 

RWJC

Posted 22 hours ago

This may sound off topic and off the wall but hear me out: 

 

Hoglander, Rathbone, a 1st and a 2nd to ARZ for a cost controlled Chychrun.

3 more years at 4.6per.

 

Arizona’s price has apparently come down. 

 

Switch QH or OEL to RHD (experiment), 

Pair Chychrun with either to get his game back and pad his stats this season with us. Hell, he may even become a major piece in getting us into the playoffs.

 

Trade him next season if need be

(he also has an N-MTC 10 team list he can supply) for our future stud RHD. 

The trade package I mention above won’t fetch us that stud now, but a young, star D like Chychrun could in a years time.

 

We might need to do something bold like this to really bring about considerable change, retool the D, and build the value of an asset (with the right support) that we can then trade up/laterally with.

With JTM locked in, Bo about to be, we should be looking at making a deal right now that can make us immediately stronger on the back end and put us in direct competition for top 3 in our division. 

 

In two seasons Myers’ contract will be up. We already have a lot of money invested on the back end, but could effect an upgrade now and set up if we want to shop for our most glaring need in the future. 
 

i realize most aren’t too high on giving up too much for a Chychrun type LHD, but managing assets can get us there if we do it right, while also pushing us much closer to playoffs.

 

thoughts?

 

from July 2021 after the OEL trade:

Chychrun is proof that defencemen can succeed in Arizona. Chychrun was a two-way force at five-on-five last season with a 51.5 percent expected goal share, his actual goal differential was plus-four at five-on-five, he scored 18 goals and 41 points in 56 games and managed all that while logging more minutes and tougher matchups than Ekman-Larsson.

He stepped into the same role Ekman-Larsson had occupied previously and was wildly successful as a bona fide top pair defenceman. 

I still wouldn't do that deal.

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I posted this yesterday in the JTM signing thread, so will post again here:

 

 

RWJC

Posted 22 hours ago

This may sound off topic and off the wall but hear me out: 

 

Hoglander, Rathbone, a 1st and a 2nd to ARZ for a cost controlled Chychrun.

3 more years at 4.6per.

 

Arizona’s price has apparently come down. 

 

Switch QH or OEL to RHD (experiment), 

Pair Chychrun with either to get his game back and pad his stats this season with us. Hell, he may even become a major piece in getting us into the playoffs.

 

Trade him next season if need be

(he also has an N-MTC 10 team list he can supply) for our future stud RHD. 

The trade package I mention above won’t fetch us that stud now, but a young, star D like Chychrun could in a years time.

 

We might need to do something bold like this to really bring about considerable change, retool the D, and build the value of an asset (with the right support) that we can then trade up/laterally with.

With JTM locked in, Bo about to be, we should be looking at making a deal right now that can make us immediately stronger on the back end and put us in direct competition for top 3 in our division. 

 

In two seasons Myers’ contract will be up. We already have a lot of money invested on the back end, but could effect an upgrade now and set up if we want to shop for our most glaring need in the future. 
 

i realize most aren’t too high on giving up too much for a Chychrun type LHD, but managing assets can get us there if we do it right, while also pushing us much closer to playoffs.

 

thoughts?

 

from July 2021 after the OEL trade:

Chychrun is proof that defencemen can succeed in Arizona. Chychrun was a two-way force at five-on-five last season with a 51.5 percent expected goal share, his actual goal differential was plus-four at five-on-five, he scored 18 goals and 41 points in 56 games and managed all that while logging more minutes and tougher matchups than Ekman-Larsson.

He stepped into the same role Ekman-Larsson had occupied previously and was wildly successful as a bona fide top pair defenceman. 

I didn’t see that amongst all the Miller posts… but glad to see I am not the only totally crazy person who sees the Miller signing as a reason to shift gears to advance our winning timeline.

 

My deal is basically the same except actually making the money work under our cap.

 

I read some articles which claimed Chychrun can readily play both sides.  That kind of pushed things over the edge in regards to paying the price to get him.  One of he, OEL, or Hughes on the right suddenly makes a very decent defence and to me puts us in consideration for a top 3 position in the division and almost certainly a lock for a playoff spot at least.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Provost

[RWJC]

Arizona now wants 2-3 young players/prospects and a 1st round pick. 
Previously it was the equivalent of 3 first round pick level prospects and a 1st rounder.

 

as I mentioned in previous post, I think we’d be having to send a combo of one of 2 or 3 of Rathbone, Hoglander, Klimovich, maybe even one of our most recent early draft picks, a 1st and possibly a 2nd. 
 

They won’t be looking at a combo of contract dumps for Chychrun except for maybe 1 to offset cap space from trading team. 
 

I think it’s worth it and believe we’d get great value out of Chychrun and a stronger asset to utilize down the road,  if not retained on this roster, to trade for the top pairing RHD we *might* desperately need. 
 

Chychrun would add so much more dimension to the top 4 Dmen, imho, not to mention assist in the transition into a younger long term D corps once Myers, Schenn’s contracts expire and OEL is 2 years older.

[Fanuck]

14 minutes ago, Provost said:

Signing Miller to a long term big dollar contract is also a reversal.  You don’t do that if you think the team needs a lot of work and is at least a couple years away which was the mantra right from the start.

 

Like it or not, that move puts us much closer to the all in type of timeframe where we have to leverage his next 3-4 years of hopefully high end play.

 

Mid/late 1st round picks aren’t the same as high 1st round picks.  We just have to load on prospects with later rounds and fill gaps in the roster with European free agents, college players, and the many veteran players who are available late in the summer for cheap one year deals.

 

We already would have 6 legit top six forwards with three of them centres (assuming Horvat signs), three top 4D, and a high end starting goalie all signed for the foreseeable future.  Add to that supporting guys like Podkolzin, Rathbone, Kuzmenko, Dermott.  This year’s first round pick hopefully ready in 3 years as well.

 

Filling out the bottom of that roster as guys like Myers and Pearson roll off their contracts doesn’t require 1st round picks.

 

I would have preferred to trade Miller and aim for a couple years from now… but with him signed, the overall strategy has to be revised as well.

 

 

 

Was that a reversal though,  or was that exactly what they said they wanted to do all along if the contract worked for the team - which they obviously believed it did?

 

I'm not against Chychrun,  I just don't know if we can afford it organizationally?

[RWJC]

10 minutes ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

In a perfect cap world, your proposal isn’t bad, but with the current cap situations and upcoming extensions for next year, the Nucks would have to include some salary/roster players to balance the books, which will affect the deal. 

Agreed, but a potentially elite Dman on a JTM type bargain deal is exactly what affords both stability and ability to create cap flexibility elsewhere 

Edited September 4, 2022 by RWJC

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, Provost said:

I didn’t see that amongst all the Miller posts… but glad to see I am not the only totally crazy person who sees the Miller signing as a reason to shift gears to advance our winning timeline.

 

My deal is basically the same except actually making the money work under our cap.

 

I read some articles which claimed Chychrun can readily play both sides.  That kind of pushed things over the edge in regards to paying the price to get him.  One of he, OEL, or Hughes on the right suddenly makes a very decent defence and to me puts us in consideration for a top 3 position in the division and almost certainly a lock for a playoff spot at least.

Absolutely!

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

I still wouldn't do that deal.

You’re an arsonist you should realize that  deal is FIRE!

[Provost]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

Was that a reversal though,  or was that exactly what they said they wanted to do all along if the contract worked for the team - which they obviously believed it did?

 

I'm not against Chychrun,  I just don't know if we can afford it organizationally?

The word is that it was the Canucks side that came way up to make the deal happen… not Miller dropping his price.

 

Faced with going into the season with no Miller or Horvat signed and possibly walking at the end of the season was reason enough for JR to blink.

 

JR also said you have to know that the first three years of a long term contract for an older veteran have to be worth the downside on the last half of the contract.  That just makes a Miller signing not make sense if you think that the “upside” years are going to be spent on a team still needing a lot of work to be competitive.