[Discussion] In season tournament

[Provost]

I posted about this a few times in the last decade or so and have long thought it would be a good way to add some interest to the dog days of the regular season in Jan-Feb.

 

The NBA just announced an in season tournament.

 

https://thespun.com/.amp/nba/look-heres-the-current-framework-for-nba-in-season-tournament

 

This mirrors soccer leagues who do the same thing. Certain regular season games count towards an extra prize or trophy as a mini tourney.

 

The NHL could do the same thing and then maybe add to or replace the All-Star game format with the finals of the tourney.  They could also make it mean something like have bonuses, charity donations, decide who gets home ice in the first round of the playoffs, draft lottery odds affected by it somehow, etc.

 

The season has become so long that lots of games are almost unwatchable as the players try to slog through and try to preserve effort and energy.  This could add a little excitement.

 

Anyone have thoughts on formats that would be entertaining for fans as well as players?

[Fanuck]

13 minutes ago, Provost said:

Anyone have thoughts on formats that would be entertaining for fans as well as players?

Shorten the season - I mean by a LOT (maybe play only 60-65 games - NFL is a  joke because if you lose 2 games your season can be over and MLB is a joke because 95% of the teams are out of meaningful game action two months into the season and then you have to play 150 more games for nothing), allow more rest for the players and make every single game that much more meaningful.  Players will love this as it keeps them healthy and literally will lengthen some players' careers as a result.  Owners will hate this because the ONLY thing they care about is revenue.  Fans might be for/against - on the one hand it will make games much more meaningful and consequently more exciting - otoh games will undoubtedly cost more as the owners will want the same revenue coming in regardless. 

 

I'm not a fan of these mini-tournaments or inter-league tournaments.  The vast MAJORITY of the best players already play in the NHL and so do the best teams so we don't need a system like that imo.  Nobody wants to see the Colorado Avalanche destroy the Swiss league champions or the KHL champs - at least I would have no interest in that sideshow. 

[Chickenspear]

28 minutes ago, Provost said:

The season has become so long that lots of games are almost unwatchable as the players try to slog through and try to preserve effort and energy.

I'd say that adding any games/tourneys to the schedule would be counterproductive to your goal here. I think the solution would be to eliminate back-to-back games, and just extend the season by 15-30 days to give players more rest throughout the season.

[UKNuck96]

been saying this for a while.

 

Sports in NA are fickle, commercial entities and not rooted to the locations unlike European sports. with the NHL having 32 teams and only one real prize some people could go their whole life without seeing their team win something, plus if a team suck, fans stay away team moves, and so on.

 

Having at least one cup competition gives teams a chance to compete for something, to win something. It would be better if they did it as either a one game knockout, no cap or player restriction, so teams at the top may rotate an use some of the farm and get experience for the kids. while tanking teams would be able to compete to win something while still  rebuilding. 

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Chickenspear said:

I'd say that adding any games/tourneys to the schedule would be counterproductive to your goal here. I think the solution would be to eliminate back-to-back games, and just extend the season by 15-30 days to give players more rest throughout the season.

It isn't adding to the schedule... they are games within the season that are formatted in a way as a mini tournament.

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Shorten the season - I mean by a LOT (maybe play only 60-65 games - NFL is a  joke because if you lose 2 games your season can be over and MLB is a joke because 95% of the teams are out of meaningful game action two months into the season and then you have to play 150 more games for nothing), allow more rest for the players and make every single game that much more meaningful.  Players will love this as it keeps them healthy and literally will lengthen some players' careers as a result.  Owners will hate this because the ONLY thing they care about is revenue.  Fans might be for/against - on the one hand it will make games much more meaningful and consequently more exciting - otoh games will undoubtedly cost more as the owners will want the same revenue coming in regardless. 

 

I'm not a fan of these mini-tournaments or inter-league tournaments.  The vast MAJORITY of the best players already play in the NHL and so do the best teams so we don't need a system like that imo.  Nobody wants to see the Colorado Avalanche destroy the Swiss league champions or the KHL champs - at least I would have no interest in that sideshow. 

That isn't remotely what is being talked about or what the NBA is planning.  They are games within the regular season against teams within the league.

Also, no one is shortening the season... they aren't cutting their revenue by 20%, it is just a non starter.

[Chickenspear]

Just now, Provost said:

It isn't adding to the schedule... they are games within the season that are formatted in a way as a mini tournament.

Ah, that makes more sense.

[Provost]

I don't think people are familiar with this concept. 

Imagine just regular season games for 3 weeks in late January where the league just splits into divisions or some other non divisional format and those teams play all their games against each other for that time period.  The team with the most points at the end of it wins a meaningful prize of some sort.

Say they put all their divisional games into that "tournament" format and the rankings from that is how home ice advantage was determined in the first couple of rounds of the playoffs?  Add in a trophy of some sort, a bonus for players, and the right to decide what charity a pool of money went to.  Non playoff team's draft lottery rankings could be partly or fully based on their results of these tournaments maybe as a way to dissuade tanking a whole season.  Like the more points you got in this tournament counts as half the weight of how you are ranked for the draft... so by actually trying in the tournament you could improve your draft odds.

You don't have to do it by division... you could have the "Original Six Cup" or some other way of splitting up the teams if you wanted (Cascadia Cup kind of thing).

It makes the worst period of the season more meaningful.

[Fanuck]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Anyone have thoughts on formats that would be entertaining for fans as well as players?

 

24 minutes ago, Provost said:

That isn't remotely what is being talked about or what the NBA is planning. 

You asked for comments on formats, I gave you one.  Nowhere did you say only comment on NBA plans.

 

Sorry Pro, not being argumentative,  but if you were looking for 'specific' comments limited in scope I wouldn't have responded and left you to discuss with others.  

 

I interpreted your open ended question as that, open.  

[Provost]

3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

 

You asked for comments on formats, I gave you one.  Nowhere did you say only comment on NBA plans.

 

Sorry Pro, not being argumentative,  but if you were looking for 'specific' comments limited in scope I wouldn't have responded and left you to discuss with others.  

 

I interpreted your open ended question as that, open.  

The title of the thread is literally “In Season Tournaments” and I went on to detail what that meant with an example of how the NBA is planning it.  Mini tournaments involving regular season games. 

 

You responded with two entirely unrelated rants… about shortening the season and how inter league tournaments are dumb.

 

…. so ya, it is fair to say that stuff isn’t what is being talked about.

[Ballisticsports.]

4 hours ago, Provost said:

That isn't remotely what is being talked about or what the NBA is planning.  They are games within the regular season against teams within the league.

Also, no one is shortening the season... they aren't cutting their revenue by 20%, it is just a non starter.

As much as the players might like playing 20% less games, but just like the owners, the players won't accept 20% less income for less games played  either

[Fanuck]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

The title of the thread is literally “In Season Tournaments” and I went on to detail what that meant with an example of how the NBA is planning it.  Mini tournaments involving regular season games. 

 

You responded with two entirely unrelated rants… about shortening the season and how inter league tournaments are dumb.

 

…. so ya, it is fair to say that stuff isn’t what is being talked about.

Lol  you think that was a rant you should've seen what I erased.   

 

I still think the concept of "in season " tournaments is dumb.  It reeks of trying to make a completely diluted product relevant for teams that have nothing to play for, not to mention its highly 'gimmicky'.  The NBA looking at this idea is essentially admission that their season is too long and a certain % of games are all but meaningless other than revenue for ownership. 

 

The bottom line is that the on-ice product is diluted because they play too many meaningless games yet still charge top-dollar for a garbage product.   This - simply too many games - won't change with the introduction of mini tournaments.  

 

I would look closely at a few of these possibilities b4 this idea:

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/top-10-ways-to-improve-the-nhl/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/three-ways-to-improve-the-nhl

 

 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, Provost said:

I posted about this a few times in the last decade or so and have long thought it would be a good way to add some interest to the dog days of the regular season in Jan-Feb.

 

The NBA just announced an in season tournament.

 

https://thespun.com/.amp/nba/look-heres-the-current-framework-for-nba-in-season-tournament

 

This mirrors soccer leagues who do the same thing. Certain regular season games count towards an extra prize or trophy as a mini tourney.

 

The NHL could do the same thing and then maybe add to or replace the All-Star game format with the finals of the tourney.  They could also make it mean something like have bonuses, charity donations, decide who gets home ice in the first round of the playoffs, draft lottery odds affected by it somehow, etc.

 

The season has become so long that lots of games are almost unwatchable as the players try to slog through and try to preserve effort and energy.  This could add a little excitement.

 

Anyone have thoughts on formats that would be entertaining for fans as well as players?

Not a baseball fan - but do like the idea that teams stay in the same city and play the same team twice.   Gives the loser a chance to come back and re-gain those points and creates some hate.   Then do it again in the other city a little while later.    For same conference teams.   Also reduces travel.