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(Speculation) MTL potentially shopping Gallagher and Edmunson


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1 hour ago, Ilya Mikheyev said:

His height isn't what I'm worried about.. but his 1+ giveaways (often blunders) per game with very few takeaways in the last year (like fewer than Brad Hunt...), a CF% of 39 (43 at EV) percent last year, is as chaotic as Tyler Myers in terms of position, even though bigger players have an easier time making a hit he's not terribly physical - he generated 6.06 hit/60 the last two seasons (about Juho Lammikko range), lack of any positives around his transition, zone exits (something Allvin and JR firmly believe need to be improved on) or offensive abilities. He played 20 minutes a night last year on the last place team in the league, finishing below Arizona. In Montreal's miracle playoff run he had some brutal gaffs which costed them the T-Bay series. Dom's GVSA model valued his worth at 800,000 last year,  and he's got another year at 3.5 on his contract after this one.

 

I would much rather take a chance with Dermott on the right-side who put up impressive (but limited and likely unsustainable) numbers under Boudreau after the trade. I think he has the tools to be decent, although I'm all for an improvement, but nevermind moving Nils for this guy.

 

image.png.4f85879851ce57c310276f61747d19d6.pngimage.png.f5d5d86dee06f830f703912c6be299cb.png

 

 

The only somewhat redeeming quality from a Canucks' perspective is that his best career defensive play came under Mike Yeo - but I don't really see Vancouver's defensive structure moving to the one Yeo used (and did terribly with overall) in St Louis.

So why cherry pick the numbers from that old post when it was already actually proven wrong by history.  That is just silly.
 

He wasn’t the worst LD on Montreal as was suggested would be the case in your link.  He was literally their best D overall and I think had the 3rd best plus minus in the entire league for the regular season.  He then upped his game for the playoffs and was their top D going all the way to the finals.

 

The guy you are quoting works as a video analyst for a women’s college hockey team.

 

 

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On 9/14/2022 at 7:40 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

If Montreal can ship these guys out and tank for a couple of years and get Bedard then they will be a powerhouse in 4-5 years I think if they can manage all that future cap space...

Even if they tank and finish last which is still unlikely it would be a 80% chance bedard goes somewhere else and michkov signed a 5 year deal in khl 

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8 hours ago, Provost said:

So why cherry pick the numbers from that old post when it was already actually proven wrong by history.  That is just silly.
 

He wasn’t the worst LD on Montreal as was suggested would be the case in your link.  He was literally their best D overall and I think had the 3rd best plus minus in the entire league for the regular season.  He then upped his game for the playoffs and was their top D going all the way to the finals.

 

The guy you are quoting works as a video analyst for a women’s college hockey team.

 

 

I don't think I was cherry picking? I think I gave a pretty holistic analysis of his play in the 3 last three years and included more numbers in my paragraph and substantiated it with other people's takes. The guy I quoted is a ex-AHL assistant coach and now involved with professional women's hockey; we're two dudes posting on a hockey forum, I was showing that others that have watched Eddy play agree with my analysis. I've seen Edmundson play a lot and @The_Rocket's comparison to a LH Guddy is pretty close, I was thinking a mirror imaged Tyler Myers but less physical and I provided info to prove my point. Height, TOI and +/- are definitely contributions to a player's value, but Myers was also second in +/- on the Canucks last year, both Eddy's +/- and CF% dipped in the playoffs and last season dramatically when he was given more defensive deployment, and his +28 was definitely an outlier when looking at his career as a whole.

 

Screen-Shot-2022-04-19-at-1.13.56-PM.png


 

Quote

 

His height isn't what I'm worried about.. but his 1+ giveaways (often blunders) per game with very few takeaways in the last year (like fewer than Brad Hunt...), a CF% of 39 (43 at EV) percent last year, is as chaotic as Tyler Myers in terms of position, even though bigger players have an easier time making a hit he's not terribly physical - he generated 6.06 hit/60 the last two seasons (about Juho Lammikko range), lack of any positives around his transition, zone exits (something Allvin and JR firmly believe need to be improved on) or offensive abilities. He played 20 minutes a night last year on the last place team in the league, finishing below Arizona. In Montreal's miracle playoff run he had some brutal gaffs which costed them the T-Bay series. Dom's GVSA model valued his worth at 800,000 last year,  and he's got another year at 3.5 on his contract after this one.

 

I would much rather take a chance with Dermott on the right-side who put up impressive (but limited and likely unsustainable) numbers under Boudreau after the trade. I think he has the tools to be decent, although I'm all for an improvement, but nevermind moving Nils for this guy.

 

image.png.4f85879851ce57c310276f61747d19d6.pngimage.png.f5d5d86dee06f830f703912c6be299cb.png

 

 

The only somewhat redeeming quality from a Canucks' perspective is that his best career defensive play came under Mike Yeo - but I don't really see Vancouver's defensive structure moving to the one Yeo used (and did terribly with overall) in St Louis.

 

 

Edited by Ilya Mikheyev
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18 hours ago, Provost said:

More speed, more aggression… we don’t have enough of that and that is the style of team they have said they want to build.  He is an upgrade, and at the fairly minimal cost with 50% retained a pretty safe risk.

 

I would be VERY interested to see the effectiveness of a Gallagher-Horvat-Mikheyev line.

 

A ton of speed, great forechecking, the ability to defend and provide offence.  That would be an elite match up line.  Opposing players couldn’t cheat and would always have to be aware of the two fast wingers being sprung and taking the puck the other way.

 

If that line could basically keep top opposing lines to a draw… our other two top lines would feast against lesser matchups.

 

dunno, not sure he's still that guy anymore. I guess if MTL were willing to retain 50% and take our cap problems and not want a 1st? otherwise I don't see how he's really an upgrade over Garland at this point in his career. 

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23 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Something around him for Pearson+ would be interesting, cap could work. 

 

But dollars to donuts I likely wouldn't be interested in giving up what the + would be. Pearson wouldn't be the main piece and they'd likely just flip him anyway. We don't have much in the system and I'm adamantly against giving up 1st and 2nd round picks for at least a few years.

 

There's a lot to like about him but I still think it's too early to be pushing chips in. 

 

I forgot about his injury, that's definitely a bit of a red flag. 

Yeah I imagine any proposal around him would be for Pearson +.

 

Pearson wouldn't have value to MTL though, he'd mainly be there for cap reasons or to try and flip.

 

I think the + would need to be a 1st, which I wouldn't want us to do even though I like the player.

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1 minute ago, Master Mind said:

Yeah I imagine any proposal around him would be for Pearson +.

 

Pearson wouldn't have value to MTL though, he'd mainly be there for cap reasons or to try and flip.

 

I think the + would need to be a 1st, which I wouldn't want us to do even though I like the player.

Yeah, moving our 1st is a non-starter for me. It'd have to be a no brainer kind of move where we're getting the better deal for me to even consider it. 

 

Need to start consistently using our top picks to draft players again. 1st and 2nd round picks should be off the table unless a rival GM wants to blow our socks off. 

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1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Yeah, moving our 1st is a non-starter for me. It'd have to be a no brainer kind of move where we're getting the better deal for me to even consider it. 

 

Need to start consistently using our top picks to draft players again. 1st and 2nd round picks should be off the table unless a rival GM wants to blow our socks off. 

My thoughts exactly.

 

I mentioned this in another thread, that I'm against rentals or short term solutions. If we're trading picks, it needs to be for a core top 4 D. Otherwise let's keep our picks and develop our prospects.

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1 hour ago, Master Mind said:

My thoughts exactly.

 

I mentioned this in another thread, that I'm against rentals or short term solutions. If we're trading picks, it needs to be for a core top 4 D. Otherwise let's keep our picks and develop our prospects.

Agreed, I've been banging the "draft and develop" drum for a good while now. 

 

The draft is the best way to get top players but development requires patience. If we didn't have a history of being awful at drafting and developing our own D we as a fanbase probably wouldn't gripe about them so much.

 

But the only way to change that narrative is to actually do it. I was really hoping we'd find a way to draft a D high this past draft, I hope management is willing to take them in the 1st round going forward. BPA is important, but if you've got players ranked similarly and it's close sometimes going with position won't hurt. 

 

We don't have much in the system for now, our young stars won't be young forever and our veterans will age. Gotta build that next wave or risk running into a talent gap like the one the Gillis era produced. 

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4 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

And Miller wanted to leave right?

.. or was he traded?

 

… it’s hockey anything and everything can happen..  love you guys who are so sure.

stick around.

 

Montreal has better d prospects than Rathbone in the system.  They’re not going to move the first 1oa pick they’ve had in decades for a pending UFA C who doesn’t fit their core age.  Suzuki is their 1C with Dach slotted for 2.  This deal doesn’t address Montreal’s needs at all. But sure.  Use the catch all argument that “anything can happen” no matter how unlikely that thing is 

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Mtl vet fwds resemble ugly, outdated architecture in a growing, aspiring region - Hughes' task appears to simply be a wrecking ball.

 

JB & Bergeron's timelines were quite similar, yet it seems Benning takes more 20-teens(approx timeline) flak. I like what he left behind, a helluva'lot more than MB's mess! Clearing the detritus will take 3, 4 yrs, so the Hab backers will require waiting room-patience.

 

Of the 4 Eastern Cdn franchises, looks like Pierre Dorion will author the book on executing a proper rebuild. Hughes would be wise to heed the lesson. Bergeron, DumB@$$ & Chevy will become historical-footnotes, otherwise forgotten.

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1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

Montreal has better d prospects than Rathbone in the system.  They’re not going to move the first 1oa pick they’ve had in decades for a pending UFA C who doesn’t fit their core age.  Suzuki is their 1C with Dach slotted for 2.  This deal doesn’t address Montreal’s needs at all. But sure.  Use the catch all argument that “anything can happen” no matter how unlikely that thing is 

Well they gave up their best D prospect in Romanov.

Horvat is not a 1 C.   But could bolster that position.. like he does with us.

I really don’t know what Montreal’s “needs” are,  except perhaps to thicken up the C position, and add someone younger than Edmunson to that D core, who is more skillful with the puck.

 

… they are 10m over the cap as it stands according to CFreindly.

 

and  guys like Drouin an Price on the injury roster pressing to return must have Hab Management a bit woozy.

 

personally I would think Gallagher is the least of their worries.

 

although ,  if .. we were able to move Myers,  Edmunson would look good here.

If just acquiring Edmunson wasn’t to hard a give up for us,.  Myers for futures might not be too bad.

 

Edited by SilentSam
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