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Unpopular opinion: Don't need top 10 defense to make the playoffs

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Something to ponder........................

 

We traded Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel and a 2021-1st................................................12 million cap dump and a 2021 - 1st

for

OEL (1 million per year retained = 6 million) and Garland...........................................(Both very good players)

 

That is $18 million dollars plus Garland, Arizona took to get rid of OEL and acquire a 1st

 

As much as everyone says OEL is a bad trade..................I would argue differently, and say I am glad to have him, and its not a bad trade!

 

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So.............................let's go after Seth Jones again.................it would not be a bad trade, if you have the right combination of moving parts.............Picture like the Arizona Trade

 

Seth Jones (Current contract 8 years X $9,500,000)............(2 million per year Retained)  = $7,500,000 per year and Connor Murphy ($4,400,000 X 4) Total = $11,900,000

for

Poolman ($2,500,000), Dickenson ($2,650,000), and Myers ($6,000,000) Total = $11,150,000

 

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Seth Jones at $7,500,000 is a steal, and if at any time, you wanted to get rid of him, it would be easy, with his abilities

 

Also of note is the fact that "IF" the cap did not go up as fast as you might want, Boeser, and Garland would be easy to get rid of

 

But this year, you would be dressing the following team...............

 

Kuzmenko         Miller             Podkolzin                             45 million

Pearson            Horvat           Garland

Mikheyev        Pettersson       Boeser

Joshua              Lazar             Lockwood

                                               Hoglander

 

Hughes             Murphy                                                       32 million

OEL                  Jones

Rathbone          Schenn

Dermott             Burroughs

 

Demko                                                                                   6 million

Martin

 

IMO, that is a kick ass line up that competes with anyone!

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48 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Something to ponder........................

 

We traded Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel and a 2021-1st................................................12 million cap dump and a 2021 - 1st

for

OEL (1 million per year retained = 6 million) and Garland...........................................(Both very good players)

 

That is $18 million dollars plus Garland, Arizona took to get rid of OEL and acquire a 1st

 

As much as everyone says OEL is a bad trade..................I would argue differently, and say I am glad to have him, and its not a bad trade!

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So.............................let's go after Seth Jones again.................it would not be a bad trade, if you have the right combination of moving parts.............Picture like the Arizona Trade

 

Seth Jones (Current contract 8 years X $9,500,000)............(2 million per year Retained)  = $7,500,000 per year and Connor Murphy ($4,400,000 X 4) Total = $11,900,000

for

Poolman ($2,500,000), Dickenson ($2,650,000), and Myers ($6,000,000) Total = $11,150,000

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Seth Jones at $7,500,000 is a steal, and if at any time, you wanted to get rid of him, it would be easy, with his abilities

 

Also of note is the fact that "IF" the cap did not go up as fast as you might want, Boeser, and Garland would be easy to get rid of

 

But this year, you would be dressing the following team...............

 

Kuzmenko         Miller             Podkolzin                             45 million

Pearson            Horvat           Garland

Mikheyev        Pettersson       Boeser

Joshua              Lazar             Lockwood

                                               Hoglander

 

Hughes             Murphy                                                       32 million

OEL                  Jones

Rathbone          Schenn

Dermott             Burroughs

 

Demko                                                                                   6 million

Martin

 

IMO, that is a kick ass line up that competes with anyone!

Wouldn't Chicago want more than 3 cap dumps for Seth Jones?

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10 hours ago, Chris12345 said:

It's going to take time....

 

I'd draft d like crazy. I'd also look to trade a forward for a d while dumping Poolman. Next to impossible which is why we are here.

Drafting is great, but....

By the time we have a Dman able to be playing meaning full top 4 min, this team is done...

Or at least Miller and Bo, as well as OEL.

Its gonna take at least 4-5 years, probably longer , for any D drafted from now on (will be picking outside top 10, likely outside top 16) to make any meaningful contribution.

 

So the real question is rather

A: Are we gonna go with this team, and use whatever trade it takes for a better D (Poolman, Podz, Pearson, Dickinson etc won't cut it).

B: Are we gonna trade it all away for picks and prospects (not just the scrubs), and rebuild from the bottom again.

C: Run with the hoses we've got...

 

Whatever the management decides, there will be pros and cons.... but this is the decision they get their fat pay checks to make.

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We already have a team in this city that’s just content with making the playoffs in The Whitecaps. The difference is that this team has been in the league for 53 years instead of 11 years.

 

 

Long time fans are sick of hearing “just make the playoffs” if some fans are just content with making the dance then perhaps cheering for the Kraken,CBJ and the Coyotes would suit your expectations a bit better.
 

 

 

I’m at the age now I question if I’ll ever see the Canuck win a cup, so pardon my post for sounding a bit prickly but I start shouting at clouds when I hear people just talking about making the playoffs not a cup win. 

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12 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Unpopular for a reason.

 

If you look at the last...I dunno, 20 stanley cup winning teams, they all had the exact same theme.

 

#1 centre/shutdown centre or total HOF stud forward.  Top flite defense that can eat minutes and score goals.

 

Hedman/Stamkos/Pointe

Crosby/Malkin/Letang

ROR/Peitrelangelo/Parayko

Ovechkin/Backstrom/Calrson

Toews/Kane/Seabrook/Keith

Bergeron/Chara/Krejci

Kopitar/Doughty/Richards

Lidstrom/Yzerman/Holmstrom

 

By and large you can go all the way back to 2000 and the predominant and prevailing rosters all...ALL had beyond star defense, forwards and or goaltending that came together at the right time.

 

Now ask yourself.  who on the Canucks is a Hedman, Pietrelangelo or Parayko.  Carlson.  Letang.  Doughty.  Chara.  Lidstrom.

 

Sorry mate, defense wins championships.

I’m not saying I disagree with you in theory. (Personally, I seriously question this team because of the defence.)


However, there were 2 notable exceptions: Carolina, and the 2nd of the back-to-back wins for Pittsburgh (where Letang was hurt and didn’t play). Both of these teams won without a star defenseman, and as a group were likely below average compared to the rest of the league.


And who was GM of those teams? Rutherford.   Might be why he thinks it can be done again here.

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lol just a horribly flawed post. 

 

1. Top 5 is just your opinion. Even if we do have a top 5 forward/goalie group that is on paper, if they do not perform because of reasons like the structure, defensive lapses, morale due to poor defense coverage, then what you say is again moot. Top 5 is about performance. If Demko is top 5 in svs % and GAA, fair enough. Or else, you can be Carey Price who was the #1 goalie for a long time and still not make the playoffs every year. 

 

2. This is the same team we have had for the last 2 seasons except for a few additions which arent even core. So if what you say is so great, why werent we even a playoff team lol. 

 

3. The point is to win in the playoffs, not make the playoffs.... 

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Crosby and Malkin did win one without Letang, so its possible. 

 

For our group, can Hughes be our Doughty? would an average d group be good enough?

 

All depends on Demko imo. Its certainly possible. Its too hard to put some kind of percentage on it, so much depends on the other playoff brackets and team injuries. 

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7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Wouldn't Chicago want more than 3 cap dumps for Seth Jones?

That is a good question Elias, and the answer is I do not know.

 

I mean how much is OEL off of Jones, and we got Garland in that trade too, who was coveted, so yes, you could be right.............

 

I know that we will Have Lekkerimaki in a couple of years, so, we might have to move a 2nd rounder, maybe even a 1st to get him, but we can recover that later, if we move one of our wingers. (Jones would be a solid acquisition)

 

But Chicago has a lot of cap in Jones, so who knows?

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3 hours ago, spook007 said:

Drafting is great, but....

By the time we have a Dman able to be playing meaning full top 4 min, this team is done...

Or at least Miller and Bo, as well as OEL.

Its gonna take at least 4-5 years, probably longer , for any D drafted from now on (will be picking outside top 10, likely outside top 16) to make any meaningful contribution.

 

So the real question is rather

A: Are we gonna go with this team, and use whatever trade it takes for a better D (Poolman, Podz, Pearson, Dickinson etc won't cut it).

B: Are we gonna trade it all away for picks and prospects (not just the scrubs), and rebuild from the bottom again.

C: Run with the hoses we've got...

 

Whatever the management decides, there will be pros and cons.... but this is the decision they get their fat pay checks to make.

Yup, 

 

Canucks have a top puck mover but not a minute munching defender that can math up against the best in the league.

 

I say this because to me just making the playoffs is a fools game, they need to build to win in the playoffs.

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If not for Bennings mistakes on dead cap - Holtby Halak and Virtanen (total 3.65M) and signing Poolman 2.5 and Dickinson 2.65 the Canucks would have 8.9M of cap room right now to sign two excellent middle pairing defensemen.

 

Colorado traded 2 seconds for Toews 4.1 and signed Manson 4.5 as a UFA (total 8.6M).

 

if we had been able to afford to do what Colorado did our D would be:

 

OEL    Hughes

Toews   Myers

Dermott  Manson

Rathbone  Schenn

 

Not too shabby.  Would fit under the cap right now if not for JB's cap blunders.

 

Also note that Colorado only drafted 2 defensemen - Makar and Byram.  Everyone else they have was acquired through trade or signed as UFA's.  The big difference is they have no dead cap at all.  That good cap management has allowed them to add the defensive depth that we don't have.

 

Two years from now we can do this.  

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14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Unpopular for a reason.

 

If you look at the last...I dunno, 20 stanley cup winning teams, they all had the exact same theme.

 

#1 centre/shutdown centre or total HOF stud forward.  Top flite defense that can eat minutes and score goals.

 

Hedman/Stamkos/Pointe

Crosby/Malkin/Letang

ROR/Peitrelangelo/Parayko

Ovechkin/Backstrom/Calrson

Toews/Kane/Seabrook/Keith

Bergeron/Chara/Krejci

Kopitar/Doughty/Richards

Lidstrom/Yzerman/Holmstrom

 

By and large you can go all the way back to 2000 and the predominant and prevailing rosters all...ALL had beyond star defense, forwards and or goaltending that came together at the right time.

 

Now ask yourself.  who on the Canucks is a Hedman, Pietrelangelo or Parayko.  Carlson.  Letang.  Doughty.  Chara.  Lidstrom.

 

Sorry mate, defense wins championships.

This 100%. Although Pitts’ Letang is a decent comparable for our Hughes. Also they won it one year when he didn’t play. 

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1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

That is a good question Elias, and the answer is I do not know.

 

I mean how much is OEL off of Jones, and we got Garland in that trade too, who was coveted, so yes, you could be right.............

 

I know that we will Have Lekkerimaki in a couple of years, so, we might have to move a 2nd rounder, maybe even a 1st to get him, but we can recover that later, if we move one of our wingers. (Jones would be a solid acquisition)

 

But Chicago has a lot of cap in Jones, so who knows?

tbh I'm not sure we need Jones if OEL-Hughes works out. If thats say a top 8 pairing in the league, maybe its better to bulk up with a 2nd pair LHD?

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9 minutes ago, JM_ said:

tbh I'm not sure we need Jones if OEL-Hughes works out. If thats say a top 8 pairing in the league, maybe its better to bulk up with a 2nd pair LHD?

I get that Jim. I was just posing a solution to the poster. I think the question is, are you better getting a $5,000,000 2nd pairing, rather than a $7,500,000 1st pairing Dman?

 

Personally, I think that there are ways to reduce the cost, but they all cost something, aka, a pick or a player, etc. I mean you could even have a 3rd party come in and take a million cap for a pick, etc....................

 

I mean Jones for a 6.5 to 7.5 cap hit, is not a bad thing is it?

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