2022 Training Camp Thread

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

It's systems when the coach instructs his team to tighten things up in the neutral zone and attack the puck at the opposition blue line vs collapsing into the defensive zone.  Giving up the blueline 9 times out of 10 means the opposition is flying through the neutral zone with speed (which only happens if there is no neutral zone pressure), and therefore they can't shut things down at the blue line.  Have you  just started watching hockey? lol!

No, that's execution

[HKSR]

22 minutes ago, stawns said:

No, that's execution

Totally different systems, but ok... agree to disagree.

[CanucksJay]

16 minutes ago, stawns said:

No, that's execution

So what is the definition of systems vs execution?

 

I feel like execution or lack of execution is discussed when the correct strategy is in place and a winger is open but the player fails to execute and makes a poor pass or misses the net etc. 

One could also say failure to execute when TG clearly told the defensemen to pinch up and pressure at their blue line but instead they skate backwards and give up our own blue line rather easily. 

 

While I've read numerous times about BB wanting to play an aggressive high pressure forecheck with D men attacking the opposing blue line, I don't ever recall TG talking about that. 

How do you know that's what TG demanded of the defensemen when we saw no evidence of it throughout his tenure here? 

Schmidt was maybe the only one that played that way and he stuck out like a sore thumb because nobody else did so there was no help. He was on an island and wanted to GTFO to Winnipeg of all places lol. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Outsiders]

Just now, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Boeser is looking a lot leaner. Good to see! Hopefully his skating is a step faster

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Mikayev and Kuzmenko look like characters.

 

This team could use more of that. Guys that remember hockey is supposed to be fun too.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Mustard Tiger]

6 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

The players themselves mentioned that the systems were almost identical and that the changes from TG to BB were more mentality/trust/deployment based than systems based

Yeah but "almost" isn't the same lol. It's the little things a NHL vet knows that AHL quality guy doesnt. I'll 100% agree change in voice, And a real players coach were the main reason for success under Bruce. But something more than just a voice changed the PK completely 

[Putgolzin]

2 hours ago, nuck-lifer said:

If Rathbone steps into the line up I would like to see Schenn as his partner. Best positioning RD as well as muscle to allow Rathbone to use his skillset. Similar to how he worked out for Hughes.

 

OEL Hughes

Dermott Myers

Rathbone Schenn

Poolman steps in on the left side with Schenn if Rathbone sits.

I like this because our 2nd and 3rd pairings are both like lite versions of last years 1st and 2nd pairings.

Dermott is like a slightly crappier OEL, and Rathbone is a slightly crappier Hughes.

So definitely not as good but with way easier minutes.

And behind a potentially massive 1st pairing.

[Bissurnette]

Does anybody know if they're going to have camp media availability for Hughes/Petey/Boeser/Pearson/Myers etc?

 

Saw they posted a couple of vids earlier today then nothing but there are a lot of players we haven't heard from.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Slegr]

This is neither here nor there, but I’m irked at the new Canuck calendar from Pharmasave. I’ve bought it for years and years, and always enjoyed looking through each month, with awesome pics of the most famous or new Canucks. But now they’ve made it about the Canucks’ player’s pets. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed watching the players’ dogs race between periods at the game… but I hardly need a calendar with each pet profiled each month. That’s just weird.

[eeeeergh]

6 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

The players themselves mentioned that the systems were almost identical and that the changes from TG to BB were more mentality/trust/deployment based than systems based

Probably because they know its bad form to trash their former coach. Eye test + all available evidence says different:

- PK under Green was a passive, collapsing box to take away passing lanes. PK under Boudreau demanded pressuring the puck carrier. One has clearly worked better than the other.

- Primary offensive system under Green was dumping it into the corner, then sending 1 guy in to chase. Under Boudreau - multiple forecheckers if dump & chase, but prefer skating it in with speed. 

- Powerplay under Green meant all 5 skaters plant their skates in their spots, and pass it around until someone gets a chance, or loses it. Powerplay under Boudreau means all skaters are moving to find seams. 

 

Perhaps its best summed up in that game when a play was being drawn up, and Boeser argued, and turned around shaking his head. Or that practice when JT shouted "we dont know what the fk we're doing". 

Green had no trust from the players because he gave them systems that set them up for failure, not success. 

[Gawdzukes]

6 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Mostly left I believe, but he can play right wing as well.

 

I wonder if they plan to use Pearson-Horvat- Mikheyev together to make a shutdown line that can grind it out and also score in hard matchups.

This would be my guess unless Pearson goes down to line 4.

[Nucker 67]

1 hour ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Kuzmenko looks like a bit of a prankster, likes to have fun. I'm sure the road trips will be a good time. Wish I knew what he said. Maybe this deserves a caption. 

 

"So, comrade, this is stupid, so I'm going to sneak out the back, okay? Cover for me. (leans in) Thanks"

[Goal:thecup]

18 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Kuzmenko looks like a bit of a prankster, likes to have fun. I'm sure the road trips will be a good time. Wish I knew what he said. Maybe this deserves a caption. 

 

"So, comrade, this is stupid, so I'm going to sneak out the back, okay? Cover for me. (leans in) Thanks"

"I got 2 puck bunnies behind me; let's blow this joint."

[stawns]

3 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

So what is the definition of systems vs execution?

 

I feel like execution or lack of execution is discussed when the correct strategy is in place and a winger is open but the player fails to execute and makes a poor pass or misses the net etc. 

One could also say failure to execute when TG clearly told the defensemen to pinch up and pressure at their blue line but instead they skate backwards and give up our own blue line rather easily. 

 

While I've read numerous times about BB wanting to play an aggressive high pressure forecheck with D men attacking the opposing blue line, I don't ever recall TG talking about that. 

How do you know that's what TG demanded of the defensemen when we saw no evidence of it throughout his tenure here? 

Schmidt was maybe the only one that played that way and he stuck out like a sore thumb because nobody else did so there was no help. He was on an island and wanted to GTFO to Winnipeg of all places lol. 

The system is the positional structure and foundation within which the players play.  It is, at it's core, who goes where and when.  There are variations and modifications to a specific system, but the core system is still the same.  Each player has a specific purpose within that system and for it to work, each player has to fulfill their specific purpose, if they don't the system breaks down. 

 

Detailed systems are, generally, defensive in nature.......defending in the dzone and forcing turnovers in the nzone and ozone.  Once a team is on the attack, most teams have very loose systems and let players be creative.

 

For example, the box +1 is a defensive zone system that aims to keep the puck on the perimeter by utilizing an even strength "box" similar to a pk, but with the C following the puck and keeping himself between the puck and the net.  It can be modified, in specific circumstances, to become a collapsing strategy, but it is still a "box +1" system.

 

In the offensive zone, most teams use a 2-1-2 system where two players go in on the forecheck and the third player hangs back to cut off a breakout pass or to jump into the slot for a scoring chance in the event of a turnover.  Other teams like a 1-2-2 where they send one player in and hold two fwds back to cut off plays to the boards.

 

The coach develops and deploys the system and the players execute said system.

 

Execution is dependent on players being disciplined in their positional play and aggressive/conswrvative with their energy output depending on the situation.  If the players are undisciplined in their positional play and energy output, it doesn't matter what system you play because it's just going to be a fire drill on the ice.  That's what we saw under Green last season.  He was using the same systems that were successful in the bubble playoffs, but he lost the trust and respect of the players and they were playing undisciplined hockey and did not execute the strategies the way they were designed.

 

BB (and many of the coaches in the league) used the same core systems as TG, but the players bought into what BB was selling and their execution of his systems were excellent.  

[Gawdzukes]

Can we please stop talking about Green and his systems? Such a stupid conversation. You can't see every system and coaching direction through your TV for starters. Green may have sucked but he wasn't deploying some crazy alien systems ffs. He's been coached by very good coaches, better than here, and is using very common systems. I know people have this need to pile endless blame on Green and try to demonize every aspect of his being but holy crap.

 

It's 2022-2023, we are coached by the great BB. Enough already!