Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Character, tenacity, aggressiveness........where the hell is it? (discussion)


Recommended Posts

Well, I have been wanting to make a proposal, but it really isn't the whole picture.

No doubt, we need a big high end RHD.....no doubt! But they are hard to find!

But just as important is team toughness and character, which I am not seeing!

 

Twice........the Hughes high stick, and last night the Burroughs high stick......................no team reaction! None of any intensity, anyways!

You just can not leave these type of incidents unanswered.............it spells out we are soft, to the league

Yes, it does not help when the stupid refs under call the penalties, but the league has at least answered the severity issue by revisiting and giving additional punishment

But that only underscores the severity of the incident, and the reaction of our team.

 

I wonder how Evander Kane would have re-acted if it had happened to one of his team-mates, I wonder how DeAngelo would have reacted

I mention them, because they both are the type of players who would react to these types of things, and who CDC was not remotely interested in.........

Even though, both have not made any type of problems with their respective teams.........I mention them, because besides their aggressive nature, they are skilled

and add to their teams competitiveness, in a positive way.............well liked? Who knows? Who cares! But I would bet they would have jumped in and I bet their team mates

would have loved them for it.

 

Too many on CDC want a gentlemen's team, and not a hard to play against team...............I look down the line up, and feel sorry for Schenn, and Myers, as there are just not enough of the regulars that will answer the call.

  • Like 1
  • Cheers 1
  • There it is 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol...you're asking this knowing it's been absent since 2010-2011

 

The last time we had this on our team we had a roster that consisted of 

 

Albert

Lapierre

Burrows

Hansen

Kesler

Rome

Torres

Volpatti

 

You have to go a LONG ways back to find any sort of aggressiveness or the like on this team.  hell, I have more tenacity in my stoll than the last decade of canucks line ups.  I'm taking fibre for it but you get the idea

  • Cheers 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well, I have been wanting to make a proposal, but it really isn't the whole picture.

No doubt, we need a big high end RHD.....no doubt! But they are hard to find!

But just as important is team toughness and character, which I am not seeing!

 

Twice........the Hughes high stick, and last night the Burroughs high stick......................no team reaction! None of any intensity, anyways!

You just can not leave these type of incidents unanswered.............it spells out we are soft, to the league

Yes, it does not help when the stupid refs under call the penalties, but the league has at least answered the severity issue by revisiting and giving additional punishment

But that only underscores the severity of the incident, and the reaction of our team.

 

I wonder how Evander Kane would have re-acted if it had happened to one of his team-mates, I wonder how DeAngelo would have reacted

I mention them, because they both are the type of players who would react to these types of things, and who CDC was not remotely interested in.........

Even though, both have not made any type of problems with their respective teams.........I mention them, because besides their aggressive nature, they are skilled

and add to their teams competitiveness, in a positive way.............well liked? Who knows? Who cares! But I would bet they would have jumped in and I bet their team mates

would have loved them for it.

 

Too many on CDC want a gentlemen's team, and not a hard to play against team...............I look down the line up, and feel sorry for Schenn, and Myers, as there are just not enough of the regulars that will answer the call.

I think a few of us have been emphasizing this and I think it has finally come to the realization for many. We have the skill, we just don't have the rest to allow the skill to flourish. You watch Hughes now and he is hesitant where he was not when he first began his NHL career. Same as Petey, Boeser etc. etc. the list goes on. I see Garland getting pummeled almost every shift now and this will affect his play too eventually.

Some have mentioned "Pack Mentality" in the past, we need to see that from EVERY MEMBER OF THE TEAM! 

  • Like 1
  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

lol...you're asking this knowing it's been absent since 2010-2011

 

The last time we had this on our team we had a roster that consisted of 

 

Albert

Lapierre

Burrows

Hansen

Kesler

Rome

Torres

Volpatti

 

You have to go a LONG ways back to find any sort of aggressiveness or the like on this team.  hell, I have more tenacity in my stoll than the last decade of canucks line ups.  I'm taking fibre for it but you get the idea

Well WH, and in there lays the problem............they were basically on the last winning team........lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Far too often, an aggresive hockey player comes on the market, and CDC, says oh no, we can't take him.............

 

Well, I can tell you first hand that when you have team-mates  that will stand up for you, you play bigger, and with confidence

 

Having watch both Kane and DeAngelo early this year, I seen no lack of team support, nor have I heard of any

 

I am on them because A) every body was so down on them a year ago, and B ) they were basically free for the pickings at the time.

 

 

Edited by J.I.A.H.N
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair or not, I'm resting this on the captain, and right now Bo is not the guy to lead this team to success. His "turn a blind eye" passive approach to the game is permeated through nearly the whole team. The Canucks are anything but hard to play against, and need new leadership.

 

I do wonder how much coaching plays in to this. Are they being told to play passively to avoid dumb penalties? If a guy gets deliberately high-sticked in the face, I don't mind one bit if we take an extra penalty to show that we're not going to put up with crap like that.

 

Edited by Strawbone
  • Vintage 1
  • There it is 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

Fair or not, I'm resting this on the captain, and right now Bo is not the guy to lead this team to success. His "turn a blind eye" passive approach to the game is permeated through nearly the whole team. The Canucks are anything but hard to play against, and need new leadership.

 

I do wonder how much coaching plays in to this. Are they being told to play passively to avoid dumb penalties? If a guy gets deliberately high-sticked in the face, I don't mind one bit if we take an extra penalty to show that we're not going to put up with crap like that.

 

I don't know, I have heard that the letter on the jersey means nothing. I always thought that an army needs a general or officers to lead them and have some structure. How else do you get 23+ guys to be on the same page? 

Torts tried to lead them to War years ago and they all jumped ship. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for reference.

 

Most recent 3rd line for the Detroit Red Wings

 

Soderblom: 21 years old 6'8" 249 pds.  

Rasmussen: 23 years old 6'6" 209 pds.

Sundqvist: 28 years old 6'3" 209 pds

 

Vs

 

Suggested 3rd line for the Vancouver Canucks

 

Kuzmenko: 26 years old 5'11" 194 pds

Pettersson: 24 years old 6'2" 176 pds

Lazar: 27 years old 6'0" 193 pds

 

When you're facing that 3rd line, a traditional checking line in hockey.  meant to grind, wear down and reduce scoring; which of those two third lines would you prefer to send out to achieve that?

 

 

 

  • Cheers 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

lol...you're asking this knowing it's been absent since 2010-2011

 

The last time we had this on our team we had a roster that consisted of 

 

Albert

Lapierre

Burrows

Hansen

Kesler

Rome

Torres

Volpatti

 

You have to go a LONG ways back to find any sort of aggressiveness or the like on this team.  hell, I have more tenacity in my stoll than the last decade of canucks line ups.  I'm taking fibre for it but you get the idea

I think this post speaks to just how difficult it is to build a roster that has "tenacity", "toughness", "aggressiveness" and "heart" as part of it's culture. When discussions like this pop up the solution is often presented as trading x for x, or bringing in x when it's not enough to have a couple guys on the roster to play policeman. 

 

The roster you mentioned have plenty of guys willing to step up in Torres, Rome, Bieksa, and so on but also had guys like Kesler, Lapierre, Hansen, Burrows, and even Samuelsson who were willing to be involved in a tenacious style of play. It was most of the roster really. 

 

It's not enough to just parachute a couple of guys in an expect things to change. There were teams with similar cultures to us back then like the Bruins, Kings, and even the Blues. Those Blues teams were feisty, and dirty/favoured or not that Boston team had buy in from the roster. So did the Blues. Additions were made to those teams, including us, over time, but a lot of those players came up together and gradually developed their team culture. It's not something that changes on a dime.

 

If the Canucks want that they'll have to build it, they'll have to develop it. It'll have to factor into drafting, developing, coaching, scouting, and player acquisition. I'm not sure injecting a couple of guys into a team is enough. 

 

Though it's worth noting that the game has changed since the mid to late 2000's and even the early 2010's. The game is different, how guys come up in minor leagues and lesser leagues is different, as is the NHL culture itself. Times have changed.

 

Folks mythologize and crave what may have been more commonplace once upon a time but you don't really see teams built like that anymore. I think toughness, heart, and so on might just look different now. Or maybe we as fans have to adjust our expectations to how things have changed more. 

Edited by Coconuts
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly I don't think the Canucks will ever have that again, the league is different now and our "leader" was mentored by Henrik a former player who was soft as Charmin and hever had pushback.

 

We have Schenn, why didn't he go after Kuz after that blatant baseeball swing to Burroughs face? Or Joshua, he seems to have size but is just another Pylon on the ice. You come to a new team and are suppose to bring grit and willing to fight and don't do it after Hughes gets hit in the face and Burroughs...tells me all I need to know about the team, don't seem to have each others back...or are too scared to go do something and take a penalty? Ya our PK sucks, Mikheyev ain't gonna change that on his own though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Far too often, an aggresive hockey player comes on the market, and CDC, says oh no, we can't take him.............

 

Well, I can tell you first hand that when you have team-mates  that will stand up for you, you play bigger, and with confidence

 

Having watch both Kane and DeAngelo early this year, I seen no lack of team support, nor have I heard of any

 

I am on them because A) every body was so down on them a year ago, and B ) they were basically free for the pickings at the time.

 

 

I don't think its a problem of not wanting an aggressive player, but why does it have to be a scumbag human/problem child?

 

We can do this by finding or drafting more leaders like Getzlaff and Perry, as far as I know they were never accused of being racists or sex offenders. 

 

  • Cheers 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Just for reference.

 

Most recent 3rd line for the Detroit Red Wings

 

Soderblom: 21 years old 6'8" 249 pds.  

Rasmussen: 23 years old 6'6" 209 pds.

Sundqvist: 28 years old 6'3" 209 pds

 

Vs

 

Suggested 3rd line for the Vancouver Canucks

 

Kuzmenko: 26 years old 5'11" 194 pds

Pettersson: 24 years old 6'2" 176 pds

Lazar: 27 years old 6'0" 193 pds

 

When you're facing that 3rd line, a traditional checking line in hockey.  meant to grind, wear down and reduce scoring; which of those two third lines would you prefer to send out to achieve that?

 

 

 

I've been saying this for years. We're too busy looking for skill. But not for size and speed. Ideally you want all three, but I'll take size and speed, because it will at least make the team miserable to play against.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

I don't think its a problem of not wanting an aggressive player, but why does it have to be a scumbag human/problem child?

 

We can do this by finding or drafting more leaders like Getzlaff and Perry, as far as I know they were never accused of being racists or sex offenders. 

 

For the future, Jimmy? Don't look now!!! LOL

 

I have yet to see a game won from the dressing room!

 

Seriously..............character is measure when the chips are down, not sucking on a beer, at an after party

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Just for reference.

 

Most recent 3rd line for the Detroit Red Wings

 

Soderblom: 21 years old 6'8" 249 pds.  

Rasmussen: 23 years old 6'6" 209 pds.

Sundqvist: 28 years old 6'3" 209 pds

 

Vs

 

Suggested 3rd line for the Vancouver Canucks

 

Kuzmenko: 26 years old 5'11" 194 pds

Pettersson: 24 years old 6'2" 176 pds

Lazar: 27 years old 6'0" 193 pds

 

When you're facing that 3rd line, a traditional checking line in hockey.  meant to grind, wear down and reduce scoring; which of those two third lines would you prefer to send out to achieve that?

 

 

 

This reminds me of Vegas's first team, big strong guys with tenacity who were very difficult to play against. They were pretty successful playing that way.

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

For the future, Jimmy? Don't look now!!! LOL

 

I have yet to see a game won from the dressing room!

 

Seriously..............character is measure when the chips are down, not sucking on a beer, at an after party

I agree with you on this J. I just don't think we need to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

 

I was really hoping McTavish would drop to us, e.g., there's a kid that looks to be in the mold of what we need. 

 

I would have been happy to see Bischel drafted too, e.g. 

 

 

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Just for reference.

 

Most recent 3rd line for the Detroit Red Wings

 

Soderblom: 21 years old 6'8" 249 pds.  

Rasmussen: 23 years old 6'6" 209 pds.

Sundqvist: 28 years old 6'3" 209 pds

 

Vs

 

Suggested 3rd line for the Vancouver Canucks

 

Kuzmenko: 26 years old 5'11" 194 pds

Pettersson: 24 years old 6'2" 176 pds

Lazar: 27 years old 6'0" 193 pds

 

When you're facing that 3rd line, a traditional checking line in hockey.  meant to grind, wear down and reduce scoring; which of those two third lines would you prefer to send out to achieve that?

 

 

 

That is a scoring line and picking the biggest line in the league and saying this is where we should be is somewhat dubious logic. We are small if we aren’t the biggest?  Literally every other line in the league is small then.

‘Are we lacking size absolutely, big time, and skill and speed and depth. We are just lacking as a franchise atm. 
‘it does need to be a draft and develop philosophy and it was one Benning thought he needed when the Kings won, but when the Hawks won we needed to be a skilled team. That man’s plan for the team was like a flag in a hurricane. 
‘I don’t see Allvin as any better so far. He has made some moves to enhance these things but no different than Benning. If anything our top 9 looks smaller this year. Tell you Lekkerimaki is not fixing this.

we need to prioritize size that can skate and right handed shots as part of our draft rankings and atm that seems way down the list. 

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heart of a Lion

 

Miller

Pettersson

Podkolzin

Pearson

Garland

Hoglander

Kuzmenko (?)

Mikheyev (?)

Hughes

Schenn

Burroughs

Dermott

Demko

 

Build around these guys, and go back to the "skate" uniforms.

 

 

Country Club - They can go anytime

 

Horvat

Boeser

Myers

Ekman-Larsson

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...