[Value] Blow it up - what's the real value of our players?

[DownUndaCanuck]

This thread was going to be made by someone at some point so why not now?

 

5 games in and we're the worst team in the league, with some very solid teams coming up, we may end up with 1 or 2 wins in the first 10 games and it's pretty hard to come back from that. In what looks like a deep draft and with a team full of ageing veterans who simply aren't winning, I've got to ask - is this the time to sell and blow it up for a full, proper tank?

 

Firstly we have to decide which core we want to keep - you've got to think Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin and Demko are the main guys (23y, 23y, 21y and 26yrs old). There's a few mid to late 20 year old guys we could keep or sell, and a lot of late 20-30 year old guys we could easily sell to a playoff bound team. Here's what I think our players could get value-wise based on picks. Obviously we could convert that into prospect/player value.

 

Miller - he's obviously been trash this year but what would it get us if we moved him? Surely he doesn't have LE/negative value yet, but could we ask for a 1st round pick + prospect? We laughed at NYR for them considering to give us Lundqvist + 1st for him but I'd do that in a heart-beat right now. 

 

Horvat - to be honest I'd be tempted to keep him around, he's 27 years old and can help pass the torch to the next generation, and give us a bit of stability in the middle. If we're picking high this year we're getting a top center who may play 3-4C minutes next year but Horvat can help groom them. I know his value would be high and we could get a great top defenceman if we traded him, but I'd rather build around Horvat, otherwise Petey is really going to get hammered.

 

Boeser - has to go. Got to think we get a 1st round pick for him, maybe even a prospect back as well (B grade?). Lots of teams will jump at him and I bet after a change of scenery he'll be the 30 goal guy he can be, but it's not happening on this team.

 

Garland - poor guy plays the right way but again is battling it in this team, I think we can get a late 1st or high 2nd rounder for him. Young age, good contract, should be an easy sell.

 

Mikheyev - doubt we trade him after just signing him, maybe next year, but that's a big contract for a fairly unproven guy so we might just have to live this one down and he'll become the next Pearson.

 

Pearson - if we advertise him as a 3rd line PKer, 3.2M isn't too bad but not many playoff teams have that cap space so we'd have to retain, could probably get a 3rd rounder for him if we're lucky and retain 25%?

 

Lazar - I'd keep him and he's our 3C for the next couple of years along with whichever rookie we draft next year.

 

Hoglander - I know he's still young but he hasn't shown much promise this year either, not sure if any team would want him but we might be able to package him with one of the guys above to sweeten a deal.

 

OEL - the big one, I'm sure some teams will take him, he's still got top LD potential, we might just have to retain 1M. If we really consider tanking hard the next few years I'd consider retaining 2M and flip him (at 5M) for a 1st and A-grade prospect.

 

Myers - as much hate as he gets on these boards, he's still a decent top-4 RD which is hard to come by, think he could nab us a 2nd round pick.

 

Poolman - probably not going anywhere but LTIR.

 

 

So based on that if we were able to somehow flip all of our decent vets/players, we'd get 3 x 1sts, 2 x 2nds and a 3rd round pick. Of course we're not going to be able to just get picks but might be able to find an equivalent prospect value-wise (eg. a former 2nd round pick young defenceman).

 

Take what we can and run to the draft this year.

[wai_lai416]

Miller- no one in their right mind will take him unless he shows signs he can turn it around

Boeser- i dunno why you keep thinking you can get a 1st rounder for him when you keep harping he's useless and overpaid

Garland- really minus the april last year.. have been pretty terrible in terms of offensive production.. maybe a 2nd for him if lucky

mikheyev- everyone in the league can see that he's overpaid. no one is going to touch him unless you wanna spend draft picks moving him.. if we blowing it up then might as well keep him

the rest of the team 0 value

then you have to look at trading EP too pretty sure he ain't staying past his rfa years at this rate.

 

the only valuable trade chip we have is EP and horvat.. that's pretty sad.. you are in a fantasy world if you think we can get 3 1st 2 2nd and a 3rd out of ur list of players.. they are all negative value damage goods until they show signs of life.

[DrJockitch]

If can trade Miller before protections set on would do. 
Brock almost has to go to re-sign Kuz this off-season. If he has value then I trade him and retain if needed.

personally I keep EP, Demko, the Russians and QH. Everything else that is not pics is up for sale. First priority same as last few seasons, partner for Q.  
At their peak I think the is a playoff contending team but nowhere near championship lvl. 

[JM_]

If we do go full blow up, its easy to retain on 3 salaries and really clean up. We could easily have 4 or 5 additional 1st round picks over the next two years and a boatload of prospects.

 

But its way too early for this discussion, I mean Jose Cristo its 5 games. 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by JM_

[Goal:thecup]

59 minutes ago, JM_ said:

If we do go full blow up, its easy to retain on 3 salaries and really clean up. We could easily have 4 or 5 additional 1st round picks over the next two years and a boatload of prospects.

 

But its way too early for this discussion, I mean Jose Cristo its 5 games. 

 

And we're in a 6-way tie for 27th in the league and a 5-way for 12th in our conference; and movin' on up too; got points in last 2 games..

[whysoserious]

14 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

This thread was going to be made by someone at some point so why not now?

 

5 games in and we're the worst team in the league, with some very solid teams coming up, we may end up with 1 or 2 wins in the first 10 games and it's pretty hard to come back from that. In what looks like a deep draft and with a team full of ageing veterans who simply aren't winning, I've got to ask - is this the time to sell and blow it up for a full, proper tank?

 

Firstly we have to decide which core we want to keep - you've got to think Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin and Demko are the main guys (23y, 23y, 21y and 26yrs old). There's a few mid to late 20 year old guys we could keep or sell, and a lot of late 20-30 year old guys we could easily sell to a playoff bound team. Here's what I think our players could get value-wise based on picks. Obviously we could convert that into prospect/player value.

 

Miller - he's obviously been trash this year but what would it get us if we moved him? Surely he doesn't have LE/negative value yet, but could we ask for a 1st round pick + prospect? We laughed at NYR for them considering to give us Lundqvist + 1st for him but I'd do that in a heart-beat right now. 

 

Horvat - to be honest I'd be tempted to keep him around, he's 27 years old and can help pass the torch to the next generation, and give us a bit of stability in the middle. If we're picking high this year we're getting a top center who may play 3-4C minutes next year but Horvat can help groom them. I know his value would be high and we could get a great top defenceman if we traded him, but I'd rather build around Horvat, otherwise Petey is really going to get hammered.

 

Boeser - has to go. Got to think we get a 1st round pick for him, maybe even a prospect back as well (B grade?). Lots of teams will jump at him and I bet after a change of scenery he'll be the 30 goal guy he can be, but it's not happening on this team.

 

Garland - poor guy plays the right way but again is battling it in this team, I think we can get a late 1st or high 2nd rounder for him. Young age, good contract, should be an easy sell.

 

Mikheyev - doubt we trade him after just signing him, maybe next year, but that's a big contract for a fairly unproven guy so we might just have to live this one down and he'll become the next Pearson.

 

Pearson - if we advertise him as a 3rd line PKer, 3.2M isn't too bad but not many playoff teams have that cap space so we'd have to retain, could probably get a 3rd rounder for him if we're lucky and retain 25%?

 

Lazar - I'd keep him and he's our 3C for the next couple of years along with whichever rookie we draft next year.

 

Hoglander - I know he's still young but he hasn't shown much promise this year either, not sure if any team would want him but we might be able to package him with one of the guys above to sweeten a deal.

 

OEL - the big one, I'm sure some teams will take him, he's still got top LD potential, we might just have to retain 1M. If we really consider tanking hard the next few years I'd consider retaining 2M and flip him (at 5M) for a 1st and A-grade prospect.

 

Myers - as much hate as he gets on these boards, he's still a decent top-4 RD which is hard to come by, think he could nab us a 2nd round pick.

 

Poolman - probably not going anywhere but LTIR.

 

 

So based on that if we were able to somehow flip all of our decent vets/players, we'd get 3 x 1sts, 2 x 2nds and a 3rd round pick. Of course we're not going to be able to just get picks but might be able to find an equivalent prospect value-wise (eg. a former 2nd round pick young defenceman).

 

Take what we can and run to the draft this year.

Miller - No way we trade him after signing long term extension.

 

Horvat - Pending UFA, probably 1st + B prospect

 

Boeser - Negative value

 

Garland - probably a 2nd round pick

 

Mikheyev - Just signed, won't be trading. 

 

Pearson - Negative Value

 

Lazar - More valuable to us than what we'd get in return, no reason to trade him

 

Hoglander - probably a similar prospect, I would want to hold on to Hoglander

 

OEL - Untradeable contract 

 

Myers - Very little value this year, no team that could use him would have cap space for him

 

Poolman - Negative Value

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Miller- no one in their right mind will take him unless he shows signs he can turn it around

Boeser- i dunno why you keep thinking you can get a 1st rounder for him when you keep harping he's useless and overpaid

Garland- really minus the april last year.. have been pretty terrible in terms of offensive production.. maybe a 2nd for him if lucky

mikheyev- everyone in the league can see that he's overpaid. no one is going to touch him unless you wanna spend draft picks moving him.. if we blowing it up then might as well keep him

the rest of the team 0 value

then you have to look at trading EP too pretty sure he ain't staying past his rfa years at this rate.

 

the only valuable trade chip we have is EP and horvat.. that's pretty sad.. you are in a fantasy world if you think we can get 3 1st 2 2nd and a 3rd out of ur list of players.. they are all negative value damage goods until they show signs of life.

Garland and Miller were the only forwards producing 5 x 5 with Green ... led the team in plus minus, draws penalties etc.   He'd for sure get folks interested in him and more then "a second rounder"...

[Sylas]

Not sure how we’d get a first back for Boeser with his contract, maybe if we take back a really bad contract. With cap space so valuable I can’t see teams spending that much on such a slow one dimensional player. 
 

We’re probably stuck with him for a while. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Garland and Miller were the only forwards producing 5 x 5 with Green ... led the team in plus minus, draws penalties etc.   He'd for sure get folks interested in him and more then "a second rounder"...

Miller's no trade clause doesn't come into effect until after this season is over (and I believe it's up to the team that acquires him whether they want to void that part of the contract when they get him).  His lackluster (defensive) play aside this season, imho he still has lots of value because of that. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan

[wai_lai416]

51 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Garland and Miller were the only forwards producing 5 x 5 with Green ... led the team in plus minus, draws penalties etc.   He'd for sure get folks interested in him and more then "a second rounder"...

garland production is way too inconsistent to garner more than a 2nd rounder.. he has 20 points combined in 4 months and then all of a sudden 16 in 1 month at the end of season where it's garbage time for a lot of the teams already in the playoff with 1 point so far in 5 games he's right back to the production level of 20 points in 4 months.. who wants to give up a 1st for an undersized inconsistent producer with a fairly big contract? if he didn't have his 16 points in april.. would you call him living up to his contract?? i wouldn't.. he's a decent 3rd liner at best on a contending team.. 

 

the only positive for garland is he plays hard.. but sometimes playing hard is not enough.. you gotta produce when playing in a certain role.. and he's one of the most inconsistent producer for the canucks last year.. he had a good oct nov.. disappeared in dec jan feb march and showed up again in april

Edited October 22, 2022 by wai_lai416

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

garland production is way too inconsistent to garner more than a 2nd rounder.. he has 20 points combined in 4 months and then all of a sudden 16 in 1 month at the end of season where it's garbage time for a lot of the teams already in the playoff with 1 point so far in 5 games he's right back to the production level of 20 points in 4 months.. who wants to give up a 1st for an undersized inconsistent producer with a fairly big contract? if he didn't have his 16 points in april.. would you call him living up to his contract?? i wouldn't.. he's a decent 3rd liner at best on a contending team.. 

 

the only positive for garland is he plays hard.. but sometimes playing hard is not enough.. you gotta produce when playing in a certain role.. and he's one of the most inconsistent producer for the canucks last year.. he had a good oct nov.. disappeared in dec jan feb march and showed up again in april

I think your overrating 2nd rounders.  But won't get into that.   

[Kobayashi Maru]

20 hours ago, whysoserious said:

Miller - No way we trade him after signing long term extension.

 

Horvat - Pending UFA, probably 1st + B prospect

 

Boeser - Negative value

 

Garland - probably a 2nd round pick

 

Mikheyev - Just signed, won't be trading. 

 

Pearson - Negative Value

 

Lazar - More valuable to us than what we'd get in return, no reason to trade him

 

Hoglander - probably a similar prospect, I would want to hold on to Hoglander

 

OEL - Untradeable contract 

 

Myers - Very little value this year, no team that could use him would have cap space for him

 

Poolman - Negative Value

This pretty much covers the value of each and if we tore it down Petey, Hughes, Demko and Kuzmenko are as good as gone too.

[BPA]

Blowing up the team may be a reality if the team continues to suck.

[Provost]

If we want to blow it up, have to get a start with it in season while retaining salary adds a bunch of value to some players.

 

Rebuilding now also includes Petterson, Demko, and Hughes.  We won’t be competitive in time to leverage their time under club control and would just lose them the moment they could escape.

 

One would think Jersey would pay a kings ransom in futures for adding the last Hughes.

[DrJockitch]

I think Miller should come in next game and play lights out because I think this is the team that should be pursuing him. Him on Carolina just seems like such a fit. 
‘Would be thrilled if Carolina left with a L and a new L-winger.