Popular Post Nathancanuck Posted October 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2022 So first of all the new management needs to go! I want Benning back. Apart from that one offseason where we lost Tanev he actually did a great job. Since new management came in all they did is weaken the team defensively while giving up picks and cap space to do so. And at the same time not adressing issues at all, like not even drafting a RHD. What do you rather have? Motte 1.25, Highmore 0.75, Lammikko 0.75, Dickinson 2.65 + 2nd round pick OR Mikheyev 4.75, Lazar 1.0, Joshua 0.8, Stillman 1.3 + 4th round pick Ok but past is past. Let's look at the issues. Biggest issue is an extremely unbalanced roster, there is talent and skill but no defense or pk at all. I believe this lack of balance is hurting the team even more than missing a top4 RD. When Horvat/Pettersson is your #1 pk pairing what do you expect?? I think there are 2 options now. First option would be to adress those problems right now before the next game because otherwise this season is over in 3-4 games. Second option would be to partly blow the team up, tank this season and get #5 overall pick and then regroup for next season via draft, free agency and trades. Option 1: Miller - Pettersson - Podkolzin Pearson - Horvat - Kuzmenko Mikheyev - xxx - xxx Joshua - Aman - Lazar Hoglander OEL - Myers Hughes - xxx Dermott - Schenn Stillman - Burroughs Trades: Garland for Brandon Tanev, Boeser for shutdown 3C (who would be a good shutdown 3C?), Rathbone, Poolman +2024 1st for top 4 RHD, 2024 6th for Highmore (AHL/depth) Option 2: Keep: Pettersson, Podkolzin, Pearson, Horvat, Hoglander, Aman, Lazar, OEL, Hughes Trade: Rathbone+Miller for a 1st+cap dump, Kuzmenko at the TDL for a 2nd, Myers 1 mill retained for 2nd, Schenn at TDL for 5th Would give us 2 firsts, 3 seconds, a third, 2 fourths, 2 fifths, a sixth and a seventh round pick in 2023 draft to load up. Leaves us with xxx - Pettersson - Podkolzin Pearson - Horvat - xxx Mikheyev - xxx -xxx Joshua - Aman - Lazar Hoglander OEL - xxx Hughes - xxx Stillman - Dermott Burroughs Thats 6 "holes" that needed to be fixed next year. Garland and Boeser should be used to make hockey trades to fill 2 of those holes. Then I would be also ok to use 2024 1st and try to sign 2 free agents plus maybe Lekkermaki or one of the 2023 1st round picks is ready or Hoglander can take the next step. 1 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV. Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) Jim Benning would be a disaster to bring back. And while Rutherford/Allvin should have to answer for their poor off-season, firing them is really nothing in the grand scheme of things. The problem is beyond management. It's on the player personnel, but more importantly. it stems from a lack of leadership, accountability, and patience from the ownership. Until the team is sold, or this roster is completely torn down and rebuilt properly, we will be in the sewers for the foreseeable future. I have always maintained it would take years to fix this team after Benning's departure; we are simply now seeing what I've always been talking about. Edited October 21, 2022 by AV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Benning left this team with no depth, no prospects, no cap and a small slow team. PA, JR won’t really see the major difference for a few years. They completely rebuilt the front office. Their off-season was very disappointing but probably reflects that other GMs were trying to buy low on anything we were selling because we are in such a bad situation. ‘I am frustrated as much as anyone but bringing back Benning is the worst possible outcome. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Benning says no. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ghostsof1915 Posted October 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Nathancanuck said: So first of all the new management needs to go! I want Benning back. I'll take things you will never expect to see on CDC for $1000. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP Phone Home Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) The only thing I will agree with what you said is, we needed to draft a RHD or more and we didn't and you're right we would only draft 5th overall even if we were the worst team this year. The issue that has always been in the last three management regimes is that no GM or POHO was allowed to do a complete rebuild due to impatient ownership. MG wanted one in 2013, Trevor wanted one in 2018 and I can't speak for this new management but they have doubled down on benning's roster so they don't appear to be thinking tare down rebuild either. It should be clear to anyone that as long as FA is the owner, this franchise will not do what teams like Chicago, LA or Pittsburgh (in the early 2000's) did. No team is immune to it but the man upstairs thinks otherwise. The result is a middling team that is stuck spinning it's tires in mediocrity. Edited October 21, 2022 by EP Phone Home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said: The only thing I will agree with what you said is, we needed to draft a RHD or more and we didn't and you're right we would only draft 5th overall even if we were the worst team this year. The issue that has always been in the last three management regimes is that no GM or POHO was allowed to do a complete rebuild due to impatient ownership. MG wanted one in 2013, Trevor wanted one in 2018 and I can't speak for this new management but they have doubled down on benning's roster so they don't appear to be thinking tare down rebuild either. It should be clear to anyone that as long as FA is the owner, this franchise will not do what teams like Chicago, LA or Pittsburgh (in the early 2000's) did. No team is immune to it but the man upstairs thinks otherwise. The result is a middling team that is stuck spinning it's tires in mediocrity. In the end, ownership should want what's best for the team. If it means a few years of pain, to build a team like Sakic did for the AV's that should be the goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 26 minutes ago, AV. said: Jim Benning would be a disaster to bring back. And while Rutherford/Allvin should have to answer for their poor off-season, firing them is really nothing in the grand scheme of things. The problem is beyond management. It's on the player personnel, but more importantly. it stems from a lack of leadership, accountability, and patience from the ownership. Until the team is sold, or this roster is completely torn down and rebuilt properly, we will be in the sewers for the foreseeable future. I have always maintained it would take years to fix this team after Benning's departure; we are simply now seeing what I've always been talking about. I strongly disagree here.. I don't blame the players or leadership (except JTM) nor the coach. It's fully on management being completely unable to complement our skill and offense with some grinders and pk'ers. Honestly look at our roster and tell me what you gonna do when you're up 4-2 after 2 periods?? Who is gonna kill your penalties, who is out in the last minute to protect a lead (if it ever gets that far)?? Who takes the hard Dzone matchups? Horvat and Pearson gives you the best chance but with Boeser on the line you can forget about it as well.. This is a problem that is so obvious and honestly not hard or expensive to fix.. but I'm soooo happy we have that 4th round pick instead of Motte lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nathancanuck said: I strongly disagree here.. I don't blame the players or leadership (except JTM) nor the coach. It's fully on management being completely unable to complement our skill and offense with some grinders and pk'ers. Honestly look at our roster and tell me what you gonna do when you're up 4-2 after 2 periods?? Who is gonna kill your penalties, who is out in the last minute to protect a lead (if it ever gets that far)?? Who takes the hard Dzone matchups? Horvat and Pearson gives you the best chance but with Boeser on the line you can forget about it as well.. This is a problem that is so obvious and honestly not hard or expensive to fix.. but I'm soooo happy we have that 4th round pick instead of Motte lol I have been calling out this new management since the trade deadline (their first option to make moves). After the trade deadline, their off season was just bad. I'm sorry, no changes to the defense at all? Everyone was criticizing how this team was built by Benning, and Allvin decided to keep it the same lol. The problem was then the fanbase pumping up the tires of this new GM. Firing the new GM at this point is pointless. This is a mess that he created when he re-signed Miller instead of traded him for high value/cap space. Edited October 21, 2022 by Dazzle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) This group of players hasn’t even bonded as a group entering into a new season 3 new Russians 2 of which are regulars , lazar stillman Joshua Aman , adding to the mix is last seasons additions and you end up with some unfamiliarties ,couple all this with with an expectation that In retrospect (5 games). Not that large of a sample size , given the fact that all 5 games have shown that this team does have some very positive potentials , and it’s very easy to dwell on the negatives right now. The tight quarters of a road trip and some idiot media types out of Chicago and Toronto spewing unfounded crap rumours , not to say there isn’t some tension in the room , what would you expect? Making coaching,management, player changes this early in the season means what? Pushing that nessesary bonding period even further away .contrary to all the negativity the sky isn’t falling Edited October 21, 2022 by chon derry 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV. Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Nathancanuck said: I strongly disagree here.. I don't blame the players or leadership (except JTM) nor the coach. It's fully on management being completely unable to complement our skill and offense with some grinders and pk'ers. Honestly look at our roster and tell me what you gonna do when you're up 4-2 after 2 periods?? Who is gonna kill your penalties, who is out in the last minute to protect a lead (if it ever gets that far)?? Who takes the hard Dzone matchups? Horvat and Pearson gives you the best chance but with Boeser on the line you can forget about it as well.. This is a problem that is so obvious and honestly not hard or expensive to fix.. but I'm soooo happy we have that 4th round pick instead of Motte lol Well, from the first statement alone, you are misdiagnosing the issues. At the end of the day, even the worst coaches and managers can be successful if the personnel on the ice is good enough to play hockey at a high level and win games. Coaching and managing is important, but the better players you have, the more successful you're going to be. People used to blame Green and Baumgartner, said it would all be fixed once they left. And then they did leave, and now where are we at? Somehow even worse than last season. Even a coach as good as Bruce is seeing the difficulties. And even to Benning's credit, he gets fired, and can we honestly say his successors have been leaps and bounds better as of yet? Miller extension won't age nicely (and already is starting to look awful before it's even kicked in) and Mikheyev, I'd argue, wasn't a pressing need comparative to fixing the defence. Then, there's the whole attaching a 2nd to get rid of Dickinson, when it was told to us that keeping picks and prospects were essential. So, are we *that* unlucky to keep hiring these dud GMs and management personnel, or perhaps, is the ownership overseeing everything the ones responsible for these mandates to continually try to compete when it's clear as day the roster needs a huge teardown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 14 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said: The only thing I will agree with what you said is, we needed to draft a RHD or more and we didn't and you're right we would only draft 5th overall even if we were the worst team this year. The issue that has always been in the last three management regimes is that no GM or POHO was allowed to do a complete rebuild due to impatient ownership. MG wanted one in 2013, Trevor wanted one in 2018 and I can't speak for this new management but they have doubled down on benning's roster so they don't appear to be thinking tare down rebuild either. It should be clear to anyone that as long as FA is the owner, this franchise will not do what teams like Chicago, LA or Pittsburgh (in the early 2000's) did. No team is immune to it but the man upstairs thinks otherwise. The result is a middling team that is stuck spinning it's tires in mediocrity. I'm kinda against a real rebuild.. we have all the pieces for a good core. We have a 1C a 2C a number 1 Dman and goalie. Plus some good pieces like Podz. The rest is possible to acquire. It just needs the right chemistry/roster makeup to work. I agree this team won't ever become a dominant top 3-5 team in the league but it could be a team that makes the playoffs every year and is capable of upsetting higher skilled teams. Why have we been so successful in the bubble? A lot of people say Demko (and he was great) but maybe one of the reasons he was great is Motte - Beagle - Sutter.. and Tanev. What I'm saying is add a Motte, Beagle, Sutter line and maybe a Tanev to our current roster and this team can be dangerous especially if Petey keeps progressing. And even if we would go full on rebuild, it doesn't get better than what we have now anyway.. there is no McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, Makar ... past the top 3 picks and we not gonna pick top 3.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, AV. said: Well, from the first statement alone, you are misdiagnosing the issues. At the end of the day, even the worst coaches and managers can be successful if the personnel on the ice is good enough to play hockey at a high level and win games. Coaching and managing is important, but the better players you have, the more successful you're going to be. People used to blame Green and Baumgartner, said it would all be fixed once they left. And then they did leave, and now where are we at? Somehow even worse than last season. Even a coach as good as Bruce is seeing the difficulties. And even to Benning's credit, he gets fired, and can we honestly say his successors have been leaps and bounds better as of yet? Miller extension won't age nicely (and already is starting to look awful before it's even kicked in) and Mikheyev, I'd argue, wasn't a pressing need comparative to fixing the defence. Then, there's the whole attaching a 2nd to get rid of Dickinson, when it was told to us that keeping picks and prospects were essential. So, are we *that* unlucky to keep hiring these dud GMs and management personnel, or perhaps, is the ownership overseeing everything the ones responsible for these mandates to continually try to compete when it's clear as day the roster needs a huge teardown? Yeah once they left the problem was fixed and we were a winning team for 2/3 of the season. Then new management got rid of Motto line and no surprise we are worse than last season. Who's fault is that? And apart from being effective this line set the tone for everyone in terms of energy and heart. EDIT: Wasn't it about "being hard to play against" ??? Motto line was hard to play against.. Edited October 21, 2022 by Nathancanuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 "I want Benning back" thanks pal, I needed a lift. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 Just now, JM_ said: "I want Benning back" thanks pal, I needed a lift. You're welcome! I would need one too haha And just to top it: I never wanted Benning gone, think he did a good job considering what he had to work with 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) Jim Benning was also the GM that hired Willie Desjardins & Travis Green. Both minor league coaches. That alone should disqualify him from ever getting the GM job of the Canucks ever again. That and leaving a farm system as empty as the one Mike Gillis left him. Edited October 21, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 It's time for the media etc. to put the heat on JR/PA. This is their mess. Looking at Miller, I'd trade him today for fast youth, picks. But instead, they re-signed Miller until 2030 and he won't even get his $8 until next season. How friggin lazy will he be then? Management didn't improve the D at al either and everyone knows they needed to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Jim Benning was also the GM that hired Willie Desjardins & Travis Green. Both minor league coaches. That alone should disqualify him from ever getting the GM job of the Canucks ever again. That and leaving a farm system as empty as the one Mike Gillis left him. We were rebuilding at that time. Doesn't matter how anyone called it.. But yeah Benning should have not extended Green and go with another coach and he would still be Canucks GM, pretty sure about that. Farm system is empty because lots of players made it to the big club and at least Benning didn't leave us a recapture penalty.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nathancanuck said: We were rebuilding at that time. Doesn't matter how anyone called it.. But yeah Benning should have not extended Green and go with another coach and he would still be Canucks GM, pretty sure about that. Farm system is empty because lots of players made it to the big club and at least Benning didn't leave us a recapture penalty.. Look at the present state of the farm system. It sucks as it did under Mike Gillis. A rebuilding team (years of that) should *not* be like that. Edited October 21, 2022 by NewbieCanuckFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said: Look at the present state of the farm system. It sucks as it did under Mike Gillis. I meant that regarding coaching decision. And if you tell me you rather have 2013 team to take over than the team now then Idk what to say 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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