[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?

[Warhippy]

Ok, let's dissect this "rebuild takes to long" comment.  We heard this fan base doesn't have the stomach for a rebuild, yet we've been retooling since 2013.

 

That's a decade of retooling.  With no developed players to speak of.  No added picks.  No traded assets.

 

Here's some teams that have rebuilt over a decade.  A decade of suck; while not all sucked for a full decade, and while not all have in fact won cups.  They are considered threats

 

Buffalo drafted 8th, 2nd, 2nd, 8th, 8th, 1st, 7th, 8th, 1st and 9th and add 4 additional 1st round picks and 6 additional 2nd and a few additional 3rd round picks in 9 years or less.  

 

Toronto drafted 5, 7, 5, 8, 4, 1.

 

Edmonton drafted 6, 10, 1, 1, 1, 7 3, 1, 4, 10, 8

 

Colorado drafted  3, 2, 1, 10, 10, 4, 4, 

 

Pens drafted 5, 1, 2, 1, 2 

 

Rangers drafted 7, 9, 2, 1 (yet manage to trade all our stars for supplementary picks and players and have a Norris player refuse to sign anywhere but here)

 

Panthers drafted 4, 3, 7, 10, 10, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1, 10

 

In the decade ish or so that these teams sucked.  Rangers not withstanding because they literally had Panarin and Fox fall in their laps, Kreider; and traded most of their essential assets for quality returns that hit hit and kept on hitting.  The Pens managed 4 HOF players in a row for their core.  The Oilers sucked their way in to slightly above mediocrity.  The Leafs sucked their way in to it and endlessly traded players on 1 year terms for extra picks.  The sabres and Panthers managed to suck their way in to youth and cores we only dream of.  The Avs fell in to O'reilly and Duchene returns that set that team up and Makar fell in their laps.

 

What I am saying, again is that we've been at this since 2012/2013 and this "retooling" BS is endless.  These teams SUCKED. They are/were the epitome of SUCKED and it was for them about a decade or less of SUCK.  Yet we, have managed to spend to the cap.  We've managed to trade nobody.  We've acquired few extra picks and those few high ones we've garnered, Pettersson and Hughes are our home runs.  Imagine if in 2013 we decided to suck and by comparison we were drafting consistently well with two or three top 3 picks to supplement Hughes and Pettersson. 

 

Say...having any two or three of Matthews, Reinhardt, Ekbblad, McDavid, Draisatl, Powers, Dahlin since 2013 in addition to what we do have.  Having cap space and extra picks in our stable with quality development.  Where would we be now?

 

I know there's zero guarantees in the draft.  I know the lottery never favoured us.  I get it.  I know.  But; with zero cap space for a decade.  With no real supplementary picks.  Watching assets walk and committing to the same insanity as we did the year before, they year before that and the year before that pretending something's changed.  What have we accomplished since our 2012 President's trophy?  

 

I find it highly insulting that we are told that we don't have the stomach for a rebuild because it takes too long.  Just look at the drafts from 2013 through 2021 and think of what might have been had this team the stomach to have simply done what needed to be done.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Warhippy

[-AJ-]

Honestly, I'm pretty sure I'll always stick with this team, though a very long rebuild (a la Buffalo) would start to get tough.

[J-23]

I do. 
 

No competitive rebuild. No retool on the fly.

 

Rebuild properly.

 

Tired of this endless cycle of being mediocre.

[Warhippy]

Just now, -AJ- said:

Honestly, I'm pretty sure I'll always stick with this team, though a very long rebuild (a la Buffalo) would start to get tough.

Oh my man, I lived through King Richards miracle run.  I survived iron mike and Messier and linden being kicked fromt eh team.  I can would and will survive a rebuild.  I am not sure I have the stomach for another 3-5 years of this though.  Possibly watching Hughes and petterssons best years wasted and seeing them leave becausae they know they can't win here though.

 

We need a definitive direction with this team and I trust that we'll stick through it.

[stawns]

I don't think there needs to be a "rebuild".  As before they need to.revognize that the young core is going to be (or already is) the dominant force on the team and make 2-3 smart moves to support that core as best they can.  There's a good, young team under there if they play it right........so far it's been a big, fat fail from management on this front.

[Fanuck]

You're asking the wrong question, it's not do we have the stomach for a rebuild, but rather could ownership stomach that strategy and accept the financial losses associated with that approach - and there absolutely would be financial losses?

Edited October 25, 2022 by Fanuck

[RogersTowell]

If we aren't in a playoff spot by trade deadline, blow it up and start over again.  This is the last chance before saying 'enough already'.  Until then, I'll be cheering whatever positives that can be found.

[73 Percent]

10 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Ok, let's dissect this "rebuild takes to long" comment.  We heard this fan base doesn't have the stomach for a rebuild, yet we've been retooling since 2013.

 

That's a decade of retooling.  With no developed players to speak of.  No added picks.  No traded assets.

 

Here's some teams that have rebuilt over a decade.  A decade of suck; while not all sucked for a full decade, and while not all have in fact won cups.  They are considered threats

 

Buffalo drafted 8th, 2nd, 2nd, 8th, 8th, 1st, 7th, 8th, 1st and 9th and add 4 additional 1st round picks and 6 additional 2nd and a few additional 3rd round picks in 9 years or less.  

 

Toronto drafted 5, 7, 5, 8, 4, 1.

 

Edmonton drafted 6, 10, 1, 1, 1, 7 3, 1, 4, 10, 8

 

Colorado drafted  3, 2, 1, 10, 10, 4, 4, 

 

Pens drafted 5, 1, 2, 1, 2 

 

Rangers drafted 7, 9, 2, 1 (yet manage to trade all our stars for supplementary picks and players and have a Norris player refuse to sign anywhere but here)

 

Panthers drafted 4, 3, 7, 10, 10, 4, 3, 3, 2, 1, 10

 

In the decade ish or so that these teams sucked.  Rangers not withstanding because they literally had Panarin and Fox fall in their laps, Kreider; and traded most of their essential assets for quality returns that hit hit and kept on hitting.  The Pens managed 4 HOF players in a row for their core.  The Oilers sucked their way in to slightly above mediocrity.  The Leafs sucked their way in to it and endlessly traded players on 1 year terms for extra picks.  The sabres and Panthers managed to suck their way in to youth and cores we only dream of.  The Avs fell in to O'reilly and Duchene returns that set that team up and Makar fell in their laps.

 

What I am saying, again is that we've been at this since 2012/2013 and this "retooling" BS is endless.  These teams SUCKED. They are/were the epitome of SUCKED and it was for them about a decade or less of SUCK.  Yet we, have managed to spend to the cap.  We've managed to trade nobody.  We've acquired few extra picks and those few high ones we've garnered, Pettersson and Hughes are our home runs.  Imagine if in 2013 we decided to suck and by comparison we were drafting consistently well with two or three top 3 picks to supplement Hughes and Pettersson. 

 

Say...having any two or three of Matthews, Reinhardt, Ekbblad, McDavid, Draisatl, Powers, Dahlin since 2013 in addition to what we do have.  Having cap space and extra picks in our stable with quality development.  Where would we be now?

 

I know there's zero guarantees in the draft.  I know the lottery never favoured us.  I get it.  I know.  But; with zero cap space for a decade.  With no real supplementary picks.  Watching assets walk and committing to the same insanity as we did the year before, they year before that and the year before that pretending something's changed.  What have we accomplished since our 2012 President's trophy?  

 

I find it highly insulting that we are told that we don't have the stomach for a rebuild because it takes too long.  Just look at the drafts from 2013 through 2021 and think of what might have been had this team the stomach to have simply done what needed to be done.

What's the worst think that can happen? We go on 7 game losing streaks and miss the playoffs? 

 

Someone must have forgot to tell me that the rebuild was finished.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

100%.

 

I would do something similar to what the Rangers did:

 

[billabong]

Let’s Define “rebuild” first 

 

are we talking a complete tear down? That’s means bye Pettersson, hughes and demko and start aaaaaallll over again and be a tire fire for 5+ years

 

Small Rebuild/reset where anyone but pettersson, hughes and demko are available for draft picks and prospects and suck for this year and next for sure. Essentially just turn the core over a bit

retool and kiss this year goodbye flip a couple forwards for D or prospects/picks/cap space then come back next year to compete for the playoffs 

 

I wanted the core to turn over a little last summer so a small rebuild is still my choice 

[24K PureCool]

I already endured a decade. What is a decade more.

[Kevin Biestra]

We've been following and cheering for a team for the last 8 years that has been in a rebuild or performing as such.  May as well have the stomach for it if they just call a pig a pig without all of the lipstick.

 

The only thing that is irreplaceable in this lineup is Quinn Hughes.

 

Demko is great but the Flyers had a better goalie in Pelle Lindbergh in the 80s who died in a car wreck in his prime.  One or two years later they had Ron Hextall winning another Vezina and a Conn Smythe.  Goalie graveyards suck but we went Markstrom / Demko in quick succession as well.  If these guys can't turn this around by the halfway mark with a new front office and Bruce there from the start of the year, time to drop the nukes.  Put Hughes in the fallout shelter and let the rest fall where it falls.

 

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

100%.

 

I would do something similar to what the Rangers did:

 

 

great example of what it can look like if done well. 

[JM_]

So the strategy matters a little bit. E.g., if the idea is to trade everyone over 23, and look at a Ranger type rebuild that could be possible here. 

 

Moving Brock (retained salary), Bo, Miller, Myers (retained), Garland, Mikheyev (retained), Kuzmenko, Pearson and Demko should net a heck of a lot of extra 1sts and prospects. 

 

I'd keep OEL and Schenn for the veteran leadership. 

[Bure_Pavel]

17 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

100%.

 

I would do something similar to what the Rangers did:

 

To be fair they won the draft lottery twice in that time. Not all so lucky.

[fanfor42]

The poll needs to say rebuild is: trade Hughes Petey and Demko. Retool is: trade several other players but not those three.

 

Then vote.

 

If you don't say that the poll is like asking what do you think of the wind?         ie. USELESS.

 

 

 

 

[-AJ-]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

To be fair they won the draft lottery twice in that time. Not all so lucky.

True, but neither player has been a home run just yet. 

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

The poll needs to say rebuild is: trade Hughes Petey and Demko. Retool is: trade several other players but not those three.

 

Then vote.

 

If you don't say that the poll is like asking what do you think of the wind?         ie. USELESS.

 

 

 

 

Hughes and Petey are 23, they would not need to be traded for a rebuild.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

To be fair they won the draft lottery twice in that time. Not all so lucky.

We have a head start with Pettersson and Hughes.  

[Bure_Pavel]

Just now, -AJ- said:

True, but neither player has been a home run just yet. 

They also got lucky with players wanting to play there due to being one of the largest american markets. ie Adam Fox and Trouba (two top pairing RD's)