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[Discussion] Do You Have the Stomach For a Rebuild?

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Would You Accept A Rebuild?  

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On 10/24/2022 at 5:22 PM, J-23 said:

I do. 
 

No competitive rebuild. No retool on the fly.

 

Rebuild properly.

 

Tired of this endless cycle of being mediocre.

You say that now, but soon as the new draft picks do not perform to the level you think they should, you and many others will be just as angry as you are now. This fans base could not handle a rebuild without over hyping the players they draft. 

Edited by vancan2233
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On 11/10/2022 at 2:38 AM, cuporbust said:

Geez, I've been on this message board for 15 years , nevermind how long I've been a fan. Happy for you that it's only been a decade. 

Damn...I never thought about how long I've been on this site...I remember one of my first e-mail addresses was hosted here in the early days.

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4 hours ago, vancan2233 said:

You say that now, but soon as the new draft picks do not perform to the level you think they should, you and many others will be just as angry as you are now. This fans base could not handle a rebuild without over hyping the players they draft. 

Ah classic…:bored:

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15 hours ago, Snake Doctor said:

After everything we have seen since 2011. A rebuild looks the most appealing. We have so many pieces to erase for picks.

      Gillis knee jerk reaction to getting pushed around and trading Co-Ho wasn't the right move.   But he didn't do much else along the edges.   And we went back, won our second Presidents trophy, and went into the 2012 playoffs with super high hopes and expectations.   As we should have.   Some noise around goalies was heating up, lol - lucky us!  Two number one goalies... 

 

Good grief.   Then we lost to LA.   And there was some talk about maybe blowing it up, but how can you?   MG ink was barely dried on those contracts, other then the Sedins.    It was his only real play, but not quite able to.   2013, another good regular season, another 1st in our division banner ... and we got swept lol.   

 

2013 was when most fans I know, gave up on that team winning a cup and the rebuild or re-tool drum was getting beaten hard.   Why would you blow up a team, that just went to the final?  Especially given we had some bad luck with whom we drew in Boston, TB, if they could have solved Thomas, which they almost did,  we'd be happy still about the result.    Thomas and Quick, won the Conn Smythe for very good reasons.   Red hot, up there with 93 Roy as the best goaltending ive seen in the post season anyways.  

 

Then we missed in 2014 ... everything changed.   Luongo moved on, the Sedins got re-signed (big mistake, a critical mistake if the team was to rebuild) Schneider was traded.   JB came in with Kesler who wanted out lol, and no goalie.   He did what he could with those parameters, got the best free agent goalie on the market, signed the second best forward (and went after Iginla) and we made the playoffs, good for 8th overall in the league, and second in the division.    We'd be over the moon right now if THIS team managed that wouldn't we?  And he was trying to plug the 8 years between Nonis first draft and Horvat lol...3 Nonis and 5 MG draft (Horvat was 6), where we had nothing to be excited about.   Almost a decade! 

 

So here we are.   IF we didn't re-sign the Sedins and Kesler still wanted out ... then we'd have been forced to rebuild.   It didn't happen.    And JB made some mistakes too.  Covid was another Canuck luck thing ... forced him to move out bad deals (but he'd likely have spent the money anyways ...).

 

To me it's time to make a trade.  Just one trade - and set things in motion.   IF they think we'd be fine with one more top four D - then start by trying to trade Brock to NJ for Severson.    If that doesn't work not a problem.    If it does then adjust from there.   Re-tool/Rebuild. Both have merits but don't see why we should double down on a team that has a defense like this.   It won't win us a cup will it? 

Edited by IBatch
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On 10/24/2022 at 5:24 PM, stawns said:

I don't think there needs to be a "rebuild".  As before they need to.revognize that the young core is going to be (or already is) the dominant force on the team and make 2-3 smart moves to support that core as best they can.  There's a good, young team under there if they play it right........so far it's been a big, fat fail from management on this front.

What is young? Ottawa or Montreal both have a top line younger than Pettersson? With more upside than Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Garland who are all in their primes now, at the peak of their health and strength?

 

Is young having 12 NHL regulars that are under 25 yrs old? 23 yrs old?

 

Or is young 27 or 28 mostly because you are in your 40's or 50's?

 

Pettersson is 24 years old today, drafted in 2017 and in his 5th year in the NHL Even Hughes was drafted in 2018 5 years ago. Is there ANY other players of impact as young as them? Or younger as most teams seem to have already?

 

Is your idea of supporting them for today or 2 or 3 years from now? Win now? Just like the last 8 years? Trading away 1rst round picks for essentially a 3 year rental or an anchor contract in OEL? Those were supposed moves to "support" the young core of TWO players.

 

The idea that the Canucks have a young team is so misleading, age does not mean good and playing young players that are support players or 3rd 4th liners doesn't mean a good team, just younger in overall age. A matter of quantity over quality.

 

By the time, in 3 years, Pettersson is 27 going on 28, at his peak, Hughes is also 3 years older so who are the next ones? Podkolzin? Maybe, three or four 30+ year old's? Who?

 

If the team keeps on like it is FA's will not want to come here, if the team has a solid rebuilding plan then veteran star players like Giroux will want to come here and take a bit of a hair cut. Hey this team used to be like that under Gillis, top FA's taking a hair cut to play here.

 

Youth doesn't mean good if the skill isn't there and star level or higher skill only comes from the draft.

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1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

What is young? Ottawa or Montreal both have a top line younger than Pettersson? With more upside than Miller, Horvat, Boeser, Garland who are all in their primes now, at the peak of their health and strength?

 

Is young having 12 NHL regulars that are under 25 yrs old? 23 yrs old?

 

Or is young 27 or 28 mostly because you are in your 40's or 50's?

 

Pettersson is 24 years old today, drafted in 2017 and in his 5th year in the NHL Even Hughes was drafted in 2018 5 years ago. Is there ANY other players of impact as young as them? Or younger as most teams seem to have already?

 

Is your idea of supporting them for today or 2 or 3 years from now? Win now? Just like the last 8 years? Trading away 1rst round picks for essentially a 3 year rental or an anchor contract in OEL? Those were supposed moves to "support" the young core of TWO players.

 

The idea that the Canucks have a young team is so misleading, age does not mean good and playing young players that are support players or 3rd 4th liners doesn't mean a good team, just younger in overall age. A matter of quantity over quality.

 

By the time, in 3 years, Pettersson is 27 going on 28, at his peak, Hughes is also 3 years older so who are the next ones? Podkolzin? Maybe, three or four 30+ year old's? Who?

 

If the team keeps on like it is FA's will not want to come here, if the team has a solid rebuilding plan then veteran star players like Giroux will want to come here and take a bit of a hair cut. Hey this team used to be like that under Gillis, top FA's taking a hair cut to play here.

 

Youth doesn't mean good if the skill isn't there and star level or higher skill only comes from the draft.

Exactly when Petey is right in his prime.  That's been the timeline all along, imo

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I have a stomach to restock the bare cupboard with prospects and picks so the franchise can win for years to come. It's so bad right now. It's not so much the rebuild this franchise needs but players to push players when they don't play well or enough picks and prospects to trade to get the players we need when we are contenders. If it's taking steps back to do it that's what needs to happen. The biggest problem with the  Benning era is that he neglected our prospect pool, farm and getting picks. 

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On 11/12/2022 at 1:38 PM, stawns said:

Exactly when Petey is right in his prime.  That's been the timeline all along, imo

Petey isn't winning anything by himself, there is no "I" in team. With as good as he is playing now they are not winning, his NHL career so faar has been filled with losing almost 2 games to on

 

Didn't he say he only signed for 3 years because he wanted to see the direction of the team, that he wanted to play for a cup and in the playoffs? Kinda sounded like his time line was 3 years, 2 now.

 

Doesn't that kind of hint of Tkachuk or Dubois?

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39 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Petey isn't winning anything by himself, there is no "I" in team. With as good as he is playing now they are not winning, his NHL career so faar has been filled with losing almost 2 games to on

 

Didn't he say he only signed for 3 years because he wanted to see the direction of the team, that he wanted to play for a cup and in the playoffs? Kinda sounded like his time line was 3 years, 2 now.

 

Doesn't that kind of hint of Tkachuk or Dubois?

To me it kind of hints that management best get on resetting this thing around him and the rest of the youth, and hope they've built some forward progress a couple years from now, to hopefully retain him. If not, we should get a butt load of assets for him, at that time.

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I have been watching this since 1970. its sometimes difficult to stomach the way our team has played and been built.

What is necessary sometimes is the patience to let it develop. This isnt the case here. Its not a case of prospects playing their way through mistakes. Its the Long term players who arent able to take the next step.The list here is long. Horvat, Miller, OEL, Pearson, Boeser, Garland, Myers and Demko, These are longer term players who for whatever reason cant seem to take the next step. If they were all around 20 you could say they were learning the craft. This core group is not taking us to the finals.

Petey and Hughes might be part of the next group but Pettersson wants to win and somewhere soon. Hes not signing to stay in  this mess .How long before Hughes wants out as well? Hoglander and Podkolzin? maybe.

The cupboard is pretty bare in Abby as well. Who i exciting on the baby Nucks right now. Not much buzz there either.

The hardest part of the rebuild is knowing some of the players we held close for a while now have to be moved to gather picks and make room for younger prospects to play and make their way into the lineup. We probably have to start at square one again.but Drafting has to reflect the need to rebuild. We need a goaltending prospect. One at about 17-18 years old that is dominant. The work the draft for the next three to four years to find D men with some nastiness.shut down D men.to compliment a Hughes if he is still here.

After that we can start worrying about 10 million dollar forwards. What we have been doing isnt working. Time to change tactics.

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21 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I have been watching this since 1970. its sometimes difficult to stomach the way our team has played and been built.

What is necessary sometimes is the patience to let it develop. This isnt the case here. Its not a case of prospects playing their way through mistakes. Its the Long term players who arent able to take the next step.The list here is long. Horvat, Miller, OEL, Pearson, Boeser, Garland, Myers and Demko, These are longer term players who for whatever reason cant seem to take the next step. If they were all around 20 you could say they were learning the craft. This core group is not taking us to the finals.

Petey and Hughes might be part of the next group but Pettersson wants to win and somewhere soon. Hes not signing to stay in  this mess .How long before Hughes wants out as well? Hoglander and Podkolzin? maybe.

The cupboard is pretty bare in Abby as well. Who i exciting on the baby Nucks right now. Not much buzz there either.

The hardest part of the rebuild is knowing some of the players we held close for a while now have to be moved to gather picks and make room for younger prospects to play and make their way into the lineup. We probably have to start at square one again.but Drafting has to reflect the need to rebuild. We need a goaltending prospect. One at about 17-18 years old that is dominant. The work the draft for the next three to four years to find D men with some nastiness.shut down D men.to compliment a Hughes if he is still here.

After that we can start worrying about 10 million dollar forwards. What we have been doing isnt working. Time to change tactics.

You are likely correct.   Unfortunately Aqua-Lini obviously hired an impatient old senior man (JR) to tinker around the edges and continue to do what has been going on for the last decade+ so Aqua-Lini can continue to sucker fans in with the "illussion' that something is actually happening so he can keep revenues up.     If Aqua-Lini actually wanted to clean his mess up, he would have hired a younger President that would not be likely to pass-away or retire over the next 4-5 years during the rebuild - due to old age.   It's pretty clear now - especially after this off-season of stupidity re-signing Miller until 2030 (when he's pushing 40) and Brock Boeser (The slowest sloth in the west) what "the playbook" is from management.  

 

This leads us to the obvious.   When will we get new owners - everything else has changed but that!  

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20 hours ago, aGENT said:

To me it kind of hints that management best get on resetting this thing around him and the rest of the youth, and hope they've built some forward progress a couple years from now, to hopefully retain him. If not, we should get a butt load of assets for him, at that time.

Talking about Pettersson.

 

I can't find any youth. I don't know your criteria for youth. Meaningful youth, guys that are future scorers, impact players? Or Roster guys? There are quite a few AHL guys on the team, them?

 

Haven't most of these guys been called "youth" for 5 or 6 years now? Or Longer?

 

When looking at decade long playoff teams many had youth, but that youth was winning in the playoffs and regular season games when they were in their very early 20's like 20 yrs old, not 24 yrs old, by that time Crosby, Toews and even Ovy's teams had already won a cup or played for more than one, maybe not Ovy, his team kept running into Pittsburgh.

 

IF Pettersson, through his agent, indicates he wants out he the rest of the league would know as soon as he is being shopped unless management does it earlier and for a rebuild reason, to get many draft picks or to move up in the draft but the team would have to get that message out there, that they are re-"building" for the future. Petey would easily get a move up AND an additional 1rst pick and prospect. That could mean the Canucks have 4 first round picks over two years, their own and the other teams.

Edited by ToTellTheTruth
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