[Proposal] Shipping Miller out to Boston (whoa)

[Coconuts]

The idea would be to kickstart our moving guys out to gear up for a rebuild, or a retool as Rutherford would probably prefer to describe it as. But yeah, probably rebuild. Let's get to it!

 

To Boston: 

Mr. JT Miler 

 

To Vancouver:

Charlie Coyle

Fabian Lysell (good winger prospect, drafted 21st overall in 2021)

 

Why does Boston do this?

Bergeron, their 1C, is 37 years old and signed to a one year deal worth 2.5M. He'll be 38 next July. This is probably his last year. 

Krejci, he came back, but for how long? He's 36 years old and will be 37 in April. Wouldn't shock me if this was his last year in the NHL, or if he runs off and plays more hockey over in the Czech league before retiring. 

 

Boston is going to need a top six center sooner than later, if you look at their roster they're built more towards competing than rebuilding. Sure, they've gotta sign Pasta still but they'll absolutely need a top six center soon. Coyle makes exactly the same salary as Miller this season, 5.25M, Boston could make this trade today and gun for one last playoff run with a 1-2 punch of Bergeron and Miller, and enter next season with a successor in place. They give up a good prospect and a pretty solid NHL'er for stability down the middle. 

 

Why does Vancouver do this?

Rebuild, baby! This move would buy us a good wing prospect, a stopgap center, and cap flexibility sooner than later. If we're rebuilding Miller's best remaining best years are probably wasted here and the long-term contract probably isn't ideal. 

Charlie Coyle isn't nothing, he's a big ol' 6'3" center who's probably good for 30-40 points, maybe a tad more. 

Lysell, good winger prospect. 

Coyle only has three seasons remaining on his deal after this season, that's not nearly as many years as seven. We'd have that 5.25M freed up during the midst of a rebuild or closer to the end of a retool. Take your pick. 

 

What's the caveat of this deal?

Well, shucks, it seems Coyle actually has a NMC and a 10-team NTC. Why the hell would he waive for Vancouver? Well, nothing ventured nothing gained?

 

What do you do if he doesn't want to waive? 

Could work with Boston and a third team that isn't on Coyle's NTC. It ain't as if Coyle is worthless, it'd just require more work and probably something else coming our way instead of Coyle. Totally doable I believe, Boston could absolutely use Miller as early as this season. 

Make a trade that doesn't involve Coyle. It'd require additional pieces. Let's saaaaay.. something around Miller+ for Lysell, Debrusk, and Trent Frederick. That'd have Boston moving out a tad over 5M while taking on 5.25M. Dunno what the + would be, but hey, I don't have all the answers. 

 

Could just flip Debrusk, who doesn't have any trade protection, to another team post-trade. Or, you know, keep him if you're into that sort of thing. 

 

Would Boston wanna give up Debrusk and Lysell? Maybe not. Would they care about Frederick? Probably not as he's closer to 25 and hasn't shown much. Would Boston want JT Miller? I'm inclined to say yes. 

 

Conclusion: 

I see Boston as a good landing spot for Miller, Boston's one of the few teams that arguably desperately needs a top six center sooner than later and any way you spin it they're probably gonna have to make a sacrifice to get one. One could argue they might have more interest in Horvat but Miller's been a point per game player or better the last few years and you've gotta give to get. Them getting Horvat also isn't necessarily an option unless he makes it to UFA, and given he's probably traded somewhere for a good return if he's not willing to re-sign with what could be a rebuilding/retooling club that's far from a guarantee. If they want him they'll probably have to trade with us for him. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[JM_]

but I heard Rutherford wants to rebuild around Miller 

 

you're probably on to something here, actually. I could easily see this as the type of return we'd get at the TDL if things keep going du caca. 

[Coconuts]

Just now, JM_ said:

but I heard Rutherford wants to rebuild around Miller 

 

you're probably on to something here, actually. I could easily see this as the type of return we'd get at the TDL if things keep going du caca. 

And I've heard many CDC'ers want to date Caroline Cameron.. 

 

I just wanted to poke a hole in the concept of Miller being unmovable, he absolutely isn't. Moving him would just require taking cap back. And he's not worthless, I just don't think he fits the timeline of what should probably be a rebuilding team. 

[JM_]

Just now, Coconuts said:

And I've heard many CDC'ers want to date Caroline Cameron.. 

she's definitely the take home to mama type. 

 

Just now, Coconuts said:

I just wanted to poke a hole in the concept of Miller being unmovable, he absolutely isn't. Moving him would just require taking cap back. And he's not worthless, I just don't think he fits the timeline of what should probably be a rebuilding team. 

oh he's far from unmovable. I actually really like what he's been saying in the media the last couple of days, I like that he's just focused on trying to win and f the rest of it. That would play well in bean town.

 

 

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

she's definitely the take home to mama type. 

 

oh he's far from unmovable. I actually really like what he's been saying in the media the last couple of days, I like that he's just focused on trying to win and f the rest of it. That would play well in bean town.

 

 

Yeah she is, I still miss Kristin Reid though. Those were good times. 

 

For sure, and let's be real, dude wants to win. He didn't sign on to rebuild and I reckon we'd probably be better off embracing one. Boston is also a helluva lot closer to home, I don't think he'd complain too much about being traded there after extending here. 

 

Sending him somewhere he'd probably be happy would help mitigate some of the optics of a sign and trade. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

Yeah she is, I still miss Kristn Reid though. Those were good times. 

 

For sure, and let's be real, dude wants to win. He didn't sign on to rebuild and I reckon we'd probably be better off embracing one. Boston is also a helluva lot closer to home, I don't think he'd complain too much about being traded there after extending here. 

 

Sending him somewhere he'd probably be happy would help mitigate some of the optics of a sign and trade. 

 

I think he's proven the close to home part doesn't mean much. I think the chance to win there tho would be something he'd be happy about.

 

I do think Miller is invested here, and could be the main veteran leader on the team, but that means bye bye Bowie. 

 

The Rangers did do a mini-rebuild keeping some veterans. I think thats what JR can sell to Aqua. 

[Ghostsof1915]

No thanks. How does this help on defence?

We need draft picks to and to get younger.

We get slightly older with Coyle and a young winger.

Unless you are planning to flip Lysell for a 1st round pick?

 

[chon derry]

Let’s do it ,they can have our coil for theirs 

Edited October 26, 2022 by chon derry

[Coconuts]

25 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 

I think he's proven the close to home part doesn't mean much. I think the chance to win there tho would be something he'd be happy about.

 

I do think Miller is invested here, and could be the main veteran leader on the team, but that means bye bye Bowie. 

 

The Rangers did do a mini-rebuild keeping some veterans. I think thats what JR can sell to Aqua. 

Sure, that's a fair point, but I don't think being closer to home would hurt. Being able to have a leading role on what should be a competitive club could help mitigate the optics of trading him right after extending him. 

 

He could, but if we're rebuilding I'm not against moving both. I've argued for keeping Bo but the longer this goes on the more I think it's likely he might just want a fresh start somewhere else as opposed to going through another rebuild/retool. 

 

Dunno if a mini-rebuild is enough, and mini-rebuild or not it'd still make sense to try and get out of Miller's deal when his best remaining years would probably be during the meat of a mini-rebuild. I'm not terribly interested in paying a mid 30's Miller 8M if that's when we could be coming out of a rebuild. 

 

I also think mini-rebuild is best case scenario, if you enter a rebuild there's no guarantee you'll exit it sooner than later despite the best efforts of a management group.

 

22 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

No thanks. How does this help on defence?

We need draft picks to and to get younger.

We get slightly older with Coyle and a young winger.

Unless you are planning to flip Lysell for a 1st round pick?

 

It doesn't, but the goal of this trade isn't to help on defense. It's to bring in a young prospect and free ourselves of 8Mx7. If we're rebuilding any help on defense is likely to be a more gradual thing now, D meant to help the team now won't do much for a rebuild unless they're on the younger side. 

 

Every move isn't going to address our D, Lysell is a quality prospect and would immediately shoot to the top of our prospect pool alongside Lekkerimaki. If you'd rather have picks there's also the chance Boston would be willing to give those up instead of Lysell. 

 

Moving Miller also likely wouldn't be our only move, we'd probably move other guys out too. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[DrJockitch]

Miller is a winger. 

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Miller is a winger. 

He could be, but he could also be a center. He took a lot of draws last year, over 1000. Took the 25th most draws last season.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=nhl+faceoff+leaders+2021-2022

Edited October 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[DrJockitch]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

He could be, but he could also be a center. He took a lot of draws last year, over 1000. Took the 25th most draws last season.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=nhl+faceoff+leaders+2021-2022

He is a winger that takes draws. Centre is a different position and he has shown very clearly this year that he is not good at that position. The defensive responsibility is too much for him and just doesn’t match his style. 

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

He is a winger that takes draws. Centre is a different position and he has shown very clearly this year that he is not good at that position. The defensive responsibility is too much for him and just doesn’t match his style. 

Perfect fit or not, Boston is going to need someone and if that requires him playing a more sheltered offensive role in a center capacity that's a decision they'd have to ponder. Wouldn't be the only top six center in the league who's not rock solid defensively. 

 

Boston also has a better defense than we do as a whole, which would mitigate some of his inefficiencies. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[D-Money]

I’ve gotta say, Boston is probably the best fit to trade Miller. Not bad. I’d strongly consider that myself.

 

However, I just don’t see us trading Miller AND Horvat, and going full scorched-earth, especially with no top-6 centres anywhere in the system. Horvat makes a lot of sense to move at the deadline, and without a big extension in place, we probably get a better return for him.

[Coconuts]

10 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I’ve gotta say, Boston is probably the best fit to trade Miller. Not bad. I’d strongly consider that myself.

 

However, I just don’t see us trading Miller AND Horvat, and going full scorched-earth, especially with no top-6 centres anywhere in the system. Horvat makes a lot of sense to move at the deadline, and without a big extension in place, we probably get a better return for him.

That depends on what Horvat wants, if he's willing to extend I'd keep him over Miller. If he wants to go, we've gotta get something for him. 

 

If Miller isn't a true center, as @DrJockitch argues above, we wouldn't be losing a defensively effective top-6 center. But I still think there'd be value there for Boston given who they've got on their roster and who they've signed to lengthy term. 

 

They'll have a D core lead by Lindholm, Carlo, and McAvoy for the foreseeable future. That's a competitive D core. Maybe they've still gotta tinker with their goaltending but they've had a good start this season. They've got Pasta up front, Marchand til he retires, Hall til his deal is up. They're probably not a contender but they could absolutely compete if they can find a top-6 center who can drive offense up front. Boston is a team with question marks, sure, but they've got nobody in the pipeline ready to step up and replace Bergeron. 

 

Maybe they prefer Horvat, that's worth considering too if he wants to leave. But I'd absolutely move on from Miller if we could as I don't think his best remaining seasons will do us much good if we're eying more of a rebuild or retool. Even one that's not scorched earth. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[Moe Knows]

I haven't read through the entire thread so apologies if this has been mentioned already. I am OK with trading Miller (or Boeser) but if we do I think the return has to be younger top 4 defenseman not a forward. Yeah, it would leave a bit of a hole at center but our forward group overall is pretty solid (on paper at least lol) defense not so much.

[garthsbutcher]

I think its a good landing spot, Boston or Philly make sense to me.

[Kelly Green]

This time yesterday I wanted to trade Miller to the KHL for a bag of Russian pucks , so I am ok with the return.

Some questions about Coyle though,

-Is he a true penalty killing 3C?

- How is he on face-offs?

-Is he at 3yrs/5.25 now?

 

Sorry if these points were covered and I missed them, I like the proposal and honestly in the right now I think it might be addition by subtraction.

[Bobby James]

Don't dislike the trade. Boston could use a guy like him and they'll have space with some vets ending their careers soon. 

 

I say keep Horvat and move Miller. If Boston wants to keep Coyle they can send Debrusk instead. Either one is fine, the main thing I want is the Lysell kid and clearing Miller. 

[Rabbit]

I don't think we could trade Miller and Bo at the same season.

If only one could be traded, I prefer JT. and exchange a strong dman.