The honey badger doesn't give a

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

10 hours ago, chon derry said:

Seeing him in a sharks uni was as sad as seeing linden In a 

Habs uni.      CANUCKS!

Islanders jersey

[AV.]

19 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

The problem with this team and it's fan base is its obsession to keep players regardless of contracts in fear of "losing them for nothing". Nobody ever looks at cap space as equity.

 

People want Bo signed if he's under 8.

 

But if he's over 7 he's overpaid. But hey, can't lose him! No, you can. Because now you have over 7 million of space to work with and with most teams up to the brim in cap, there's deals to be made. People think it's tough to replace players, and that's largely true because nobody has the space to accrue players.

 

The past 4 years we've seen teams absolutely ripping off other teams because they need cap space to get other players. Yet not one GM is smart enough to figure out the strategy of keeping some space for top end talent? Gm's in this league are absolute morons who only cater to market demands. "Oh, number 2 defensemen are getting paid 9 million this offseason? Welp! Guess I better pay my player that much too!"

 

Moronic.

 

Stop overpaying players and praying the cap will go up. If you use the cap increase as an excuse to grab a guy, you're gm'ing wrong.

 

The best teams get value contracts. That's how you win and stay successful. Find as many as you can. We have a few of them. But we are also paying Myers, Pearson, Boeser, Poolman and Mikheyev these ridiculous contracts as well. Meanwhile we had guys like Motte who had value and we couldn't even obtain him for the price he's making now. We did the same BS with Tanev. We keep losing value contracts. And now we are likely to do the same with Garland.

 

Stupidity.

 

Cap space is vital. Go get some. And hold onto it like it's your life savings. Stop paying your bottom six. 

Stupendous post.

CGY, as we've come to expect from under Brad Treliving, is a great example.  23.75 committed to Huberdeau/Kadri/Weegar, which is money saved because it would have been close to 25M+ if they had kept Monahan/Gaudreau/Tkachuk.  Whether it ages nicely is one thing, but they haven't missed a beat this season, despite losing 2 and 1/2 core players.

[wai_lai416]

30 minutes ago, AV. said:

That's because you're assessing their team all wrong.

Forget about Mackinnon, Makar, and Landeskog.  Focus instead on what they did at a pro scouting level and in the front office.

They moved Duchene and didn't bother asking for Colin White, Logan Brown, etc. from Ottawa.  Instead, they asked for a roster player in Turris, knowing that NSH (who had retained an interest in Duchene) would be willing to deal for him as an alternative and include a prospect like Samuel Girard to make that happen.  They spread out their return over two deals, collecting just as many picks and prospects that they have would have been able to get from Ottawa in one deal, but obviously getting more specific targets through this three-way deal with Nashville.

When Washington had cap issues and Burakovsky wasn't exactly thrilled with his minutes, they pounced on the opportunity to acquire him for just a few picks.  A similar case with Washington just the off-season before, getting Grubauer as their starter for just a pick, at the cost of taking on Brooks Orpik and buying him out.

After Tyson Barrie was coming off two near 60 point seasons, they cashed out on him to get Kadri (who had fallen behind Tavares/Matthews) as their 2C.

Of course, we can't dismiss the beautiful job they did to pounce on getting Devon Toews from the Islanders.  Maybe the Islanders underestimated the impact Toews could make, but this was a move we all saw as a steal for the Avalanche in real time.

It's not about drafting a Mackinnon or Makar.  Every team can do that, and besides, the Canucks have close enough versions of such players in Pettersson and Hughes.  What it *is* about is being able to be shrewd with trading, with free-agency, and with cap and asset management.  Canucks experience severe difficulties in such departments, which is why they are in the mess they are, and which is why the Avalanche and their management are continually praised.

it's not about mackinnon or makar?? every team can do that?? how many norris caliber defenceman are out there?? less than 10? how many Mackinnons are out there? less than 5? 

 

lol Pettersson and Hughes is close enough to Mackinnon and makar?? Mackinnon is a top 3 player in this league.. Pettersson? maybe top 50-75? Hughes is close to Makar? Makar can anchor is own defensive pairing.. Hughes we need to find someone to babysit him. let's get his to ur head now.. Hughes will never ever come close to winning a norris trophy ever.. he's not good enough and never will be good enough defensively.. so you are saying swap out mackinnon for pettersson and hughes for makar they would have still won the cup?? lol

 

their front office did and admirable job getting the right depth/support players to help make their cup run.. their main core players are all from their tank job.. and where did duchene came from? oh right their tank job.. where did all their players from their cup run come from?? their 2009 draft where they were rebuilding.. duchene o'reilly barrie.. they were all premium players moved to supplement their core players.. 

 

colorado did a great job getting all the right pieces.. but most of their ammunition to make those trades again.. came from their rebuild/tank job.. they went thru 8+ years of tanking/rebuilding to get where they are.. us? we went thru 8 years of retooling to get further away from the cup.. not good enough to compete.. not bad enough to get a top prospect. and a empty cupboard to even make any changes.. outside of horvat.. what do we have in prospect that other team would even want in a trade? almost nothing outside of our 1st rounder from last year.. everyone else is a toss in that doesn't even move the needle.

 

 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

If you have a rusted 1974 Pinto, it's hard to trade that for a new Ferrari. I think our own fans over estimate our players. Has the thought crossed the mind of anyone that the players the Canucks have as they are mostly under performing, maybe there's no demand? It isn't like NHL 23 where you get top return for players.

You would need to add a sweetener or two to acquire that Ferrari 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

No one is saying he should be given the keys to the team.

 

He also said he didn’t know how you make THIS roster win…. Because the answer is you can’t.

 

He clearly said in quite a bit of detail that the answer is to do a complete rebuild because the team as constructed isn’t working.

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/jannik-hansen-calling-proper-canucks-rebuild-not-retool

Exactly, thanks for posting more of what he had to say. Context is helpful.

 

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

If you have a rusted 1974 Pinto, it's hard to trade that for a new Ferrari. I think our own fans over estimate our players. Has the thought crossed the mind of anyone that the players the Canucks have as they are mostly under performing, maybe there's no demand? It isn't like NHL 23 where you get top return for players.

Truth is usually somewhere in the middle, Miller ain't suddenly a Pinto. Neither is Boeser. But sure, ain't Ferraris either. 

 

It's not just about value, it's about cap space. The reality is dealing with most of the teams in the leage right now would necessitate taking cap back.

 

Every trade isn't going to be a win, or a home run, but there are likely fair deals to be had. Or slightly less than fair depending on the contract. But yeah, I reckon their are assets to be had.

 

I'm not arguing it'll be easy, but I'm also not the one being paid to fix this mess.

 

43 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

The problem with this team and it's fan base is its obsession to keep players regardless of contracts in fear of "losing them for nothing". Nobody ever looks at cap space as equity.

 

People want Bo signed if he's under 8.

 

But if he's over 7 he's overpaid. But hey, can't lose him! No, you can. Because now you have over 7 million of space to work with and with most teams up to the brim in cap, there's deals to be made. People think it's tough to replace players, and that's largely true because nobody has the space to accrue players.

 

The past 4 years we've seen teams absolutely ripping off other teams because they need cap space to get other players. Yet not one GM is smart enough to figure out the strategy of keeping some space for top end talent? Gm's in this league are absolute morons who only cater to market demands. "Oh, number 2 defensemen are getting paid 9 million this offseason? Welp! Guess I better pay my player that much too!"

 

Moronic.

 

Stop overpaying players and praying the cap will go up. If you use the cap increase as an excuse to grab a guy, you're gm'ing wrong.

 

The best teams get value contracts. That's how you win and stay successful. Find as many as you can. We have a few of them. But we are also paying Myers, Pearson, Boeser, Poolman and Mikheyev these ridiculous contracts as well. Meanwhile we had guys like Motte who had value and we couldn't even obtain him for the price he's making now. We did the same BS with Tanev. We keep losing value contracts. And now we are likely to do the same with Garland.

 

Stupidity.

 

Cap space is vital. Go get some. And hold onto it like it's your life savings. Stop paying your bottom six. 

Cap space in itself is an asset nowadays, it's often overlooked as a return.

 

How a team allocates, and manages it's cap is so important.

[AV.]

3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

it's not about mackinnon or makar?? every team can do that?? how many norris caliber defenceman are out there?? less than 10? how many Mackinnons are out there? less than 5? 

 

lol Pettersson and Hughes is close enough to Mackinnon and makar?? Mackinnon is a top 3 player in this league.. Pettersson? maybe top 50-75? Hughes is close to Makar? Makar can anchor is own defensive pairing.. Hughes we need to find someone to babysit him. let's get his to ur head now.. Hughes will never ever come close to winning a norris trophy ever.. he's not good enough and never will be good enough defensively.. so you are saying swap out mackinnon for pettersson and hughes for makar they would have still won the cup?? lol

 

their front office did and admirable job getting the right depth/support players to help make their cup run.. their main core players are all from their tank job.. and where did duchene came from? oh right their tank job.. where did all their players from their cup run come from?? their 2009 draft where they were rebuilding.. duchene o'reilly barrie.. they were all premium players moved to supplement their core players.. 

 

colorado did a great job getting all the right pieces.. but most of their ammunition to make those trades again.. came from their rebuild/tank job.. they went thru 8+ years of tanking/rebuilding to get where they are.. us? we went thru 8 years of retooling to get further away from the cup.. not good enough to compete.. not bad enough to get a top prospect. and a empty cupboard to even make any changes.. outside of horvat.. what do we have in prospect that other team would even want in a trade? almost nothing outside of our 1st rounder from last year.. everyone else is a toss in that doesn't even move the needle.

 

 

Yes.  Every team can draft a #1C and a #1D.  It sure helps to have the top 3 or top 5 or whatever variant in those positions, but not an absolute requirement.

Colorado never "tanked" per se.  They were brutally inconsistent, but never entered an extended period of massive losing seasons where they missed by a ton.

2008/09:  Missed by a lot (Duchene)
2009/10:  Made barely
2010/11:  Missed by a lot (Landeskog)
2011/12:  Missed barely
2012/13:  Missed by a lot (Mackinnon)
2013/14:  Made comfortably (Central winners)
2014/15:  Missed barely (Rantanen)
2015/16:  Missed barely
2016/17:  Missed by a ton (trough) (Makar)
2017/18:  Made barely
2018/19 - onwards:  Made comfortably (peak)

The important thing is that no "win-now" moves were made at any point.  Same goes for the contracts they signed, in fact, it was because they didn't commit money to Stastny, ROR, and others that they regressed again after the 2013/14 season.

The same cannot be said for Vancouver, who rushed things, signed horrible contracts, made horrible trades, and couldn't manage the cap or their assets for toffee.

[SilentSam]

12 hours ago, Coconuts said:

He's got some of my favourite takes in this market, I love how candid he is when it comes to his former team. And yeah, I agree with him. Sure, it's just his personal take, but his take carries weight in these parts. 

 

 

 

Listening to him reminds me of :

 

 

 

[Coconuts]

4 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Listening to him reminds me of :

 

 

 

He's Danish not Swedish, but kinda 

 

I like how he mashes idioms together 

[GB5]

Hansen is awesome.

 

I agree completely with him. When Rutherford mention retooling on the fly I almost fell out of my chair.

 

Too much of a Groundhog Day scenario except we are all getting older and want to one day see this team win a Stanley Cup.

[jyu]

2 hours ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I would say Horvat is a better comparable.. not with the stunting growth aspect necessarily but more of a situational comparison.

I see Horvat = O'Reilly and Miller = Duchene.

 

Colorado traded both to get the rebuild started.

 

We should probably do the same.

[jyu]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure you can look at it that way.. but we have not gained another 1st rounders or really draft picks during that period and we also busted hard on 2 top 5 picks. not many teams going to come out of a rebuild when you have only 1 or 2 top end talent coming out of 8 years. even if u have a top 3 guy this year.. our prospect pool is empty. let's not kid ourselves. 2025.. EP will not be on the team if we are rebuilding the next 3 years. he already said he wants to play for a contending team.. you really think he's going to sign a long term deal here during another 3 years of rebuild? so coming out of it we'll have what? just demko hughes? maybe podz but he doesnt look like a sure fire top line player.. and any player you draft the next 3 years most likely are not going to be ready especially RHD or LHD.. good joke if you think we can rebuild in 3 years with 0 depth in the prospects

So, what are you suggesting? 

 

Make a suggestion.

 

[jyu]

2 hours ago, AV. said:

That's because you're assessing their team all wrong.

Forget about Mackinnon, Makar, and Landeskog.  Focus instead on what they did at a pro scouting level and in the front office.

They moved Duchene and didn't bother asking for Colin White, Logan Brown, etc. from Ottawa.  Instead, they asked for a roster player in Turris, knowing that NSH (who had retained an interest in Duchene) would be willing to deal for him as an alternative and include a prospect like Samuel Girard to make that happen.  They spread out their return over two deals, collecting just as many picks and prospects that they have would have been able to get from Ottawa in one deal, but obviously getting more specific targets through this three-way deal with Nashville.

When Washington had cap issues and Burakovsky wasn't exactly thrilled with his minutes, they pounced on the opportunity to acquire him for just a few picks.  A similar case with Washington just the off-season before, getting Grubauer as their starter for just a pick, at the cost of taking on Brooks Orpik and buying him out.

After Tyson Barrie was coming off two near 60 point seasons, they cashed out on him to get Kadri (who had fallen behind Tavares/Matthews) as their 2C.

Of course, we can't dismiss the beautiful job they did to pounce on getting Devon Toews from the Islanders.  Maybe the Islanders underestimated the impact Toews could make, but this was a move we all saw as a steal for the Avalanche in real time.

It's not about drafting a Mackinnon or Makar.  Every team can do that, and besides, the Canucks have close enough versions of such players in Pettersson and Hughes.  What it *is* about is being able to be shrewd with trading, with free-agency, and with cap and asset management.  Canucks experience severe difficulties in such departments, which is why they are in the mess they are, and which is why the Avalanche and their management are continually praised.

Agree with everything you said here. But I think we would need one more superstar caliber player to have a shot at winning. 

 

Bedard-Pettersson-Hughes

 

 

 

 

[AV.]

Just now, jyu said:

Agree with everything you said here. But I think we would need one more superstar caliber player to have a shot at winning. 

 

Bedard-Pettersson-Hughes

 

 

 

 

Bedard is the only thing that can save this franchise.  I'm not even being hyperbolic or sensational, either, when I say this.  People on here truly underestimate how bad this team is and how much work needs to be done.

[jyu]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure you can look at it that way.. but we have not gained another 1st rounders or really draft picks during that period and we also busted hard on 2 top 5 picks. not many teams going to come out of a rebuild when you have only 1 or 2 top end talent coming out of 8 years. even if u have a top 3 guy this year.. our prospect pool is empty. let's not kid ourselves. 2025.. EP will not be on the team if we are rebuilding the next 3 years. he already said he wants to play for a contending team.. you really think he's going to sign a long term deal here during another 3 years of rebuild? so coming out of it we'll have what? just demko hughes? maybe podz but he doesnt look like a sure fire top line player.. and any player you draft the next 3 years most likely are not going to be ready especially RHD or LHD.. good joke if you think we can rebuild in 3 years with 0 depth in the prospects

I didn't say we will win in 2025. I said we start going for it in 2025 after rebuilding.

 

I think Podz has potential to be like Landeskog. 

 

It's all about assembling a roster with the best possible potential. Even Bedard is a potential, he might suck at the NHL level, you never know. If we are starting with the assumption that no one will pan out and Pettersson and Hughes will surely leave because they can't weather a rebuild, then what should we do? Why do we even bother and why do you even bother posting here? 

 

[Rick_theRyper]

10 hours ago, Dazzle said:

The thing is, we could've had a mixture of young and experienced players, without spending to the cap. Many Canuck fans had called for Miller to be traded while his stock was his highest, and we did the most Canuck thing ever. We loved him too much to let him go for any assets.

Exactly 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Always loved Hansen. 

 

He literally said twice in that clip that he has no clue what the solution is and ppl here want to make him management.

He'd fit right in with the current group who also don't have a clue either...

[mll]

9 minutes ago, jyu said:

I see Horvat = O'Reilly and Miller = Duchene.

 

Colorado traded both to get the rebuild started.

 

We should probably do the same.

Sakic tried to stay competitive even after trading RoR - he was only traded because they weren't willing to pay him more than Duchene.  

 

RoR was traded in summer 2015.  That summer they signed several free agents to try and remain competitive.  At the 2016 TDL they even gave up draft picks to try and improve their roster to get into the post-season (they ended up missing).  The following season they finished the worse team in the league and it's only then that they changed direction.

 

For quite some time Sakic was considered the worse GM in the league.  It's only after the Duchene trade and them getting into the post-season that opinions started to change.  Colorado had also made internal changes and built up their analytics department with Sakic relying on them to build their roster.

 

[Coconuts]

26 minutes ago, mll said:

Sakic tried to stay competitive even after trading RoR - he was only traded because they weren't willing to pay him more than Duchene.  

 

RoR was traded in summer 2015.  That summer they signed several free agents to try and remain competitive.  At the 2016 TDL they even gave up draft picks to try and improve their roster to get into the post-season (they ended up missing).  The following season they finished the worse team in the league and it's only then that they changed direction.

 

For quite some time Sakic was considered the worse GM in the league.  It's only after the Duchene trade and them getting into the post-season that opinions started to change.  Colorado had also made internal changes and built up their analytics department with Sakic relying on them to build their roster.

 

Yeah, I remember that. Funny how things work out sometimes. 

[jyu]

26 minutes ago, mll said:

Sakic tried to stay competitive even after trading RoR - he was only traded because they weren't willing to pay him more than Duchene.  

 

RoR was traded in summer 2015.  That summer they signed several free agents to try and remain competitive.  At the 2016 TDL they even gave up draft picks to try and improve their roster to get into the post-season (they ended up missing).  The following season they finished the worse team in the league and it's only then that they changed direction.

 

For quite some time Sakic was considered the worse GM in the league.  It's only after the Duchene trade and them getting into the post-season that opinions started to change.  Colorado had also made internal changes and built up their analytics department with Sakic relying on them to build their roster.

 

Well, that's a good news.

 

I think it's never too late for us if we change the direction now. Trade Horvat then Miller and in the meantime, build up the analytics department and go from there.

 

We will suck for sure but that seems inevitable at this point. There's no quick fixing this defence.

 

[MeanSeanBean]

48 minutes ago, AV. said:

Bedard is the only thing that can save this franchise.  I'm not even being hyperbolic or sensational, either, when I say this.  People on here truly underestimate how bad this team is and how much work needs to be done.

Many moons ago I used to think you trolled fans around here for fun. Definitely had a couple spats with you. Now I find myself agreeing with much of what you say. Bedard is the way.

 

Hope this helps....