(Proposal) for Mitchell Marner

[Baratheon]

JT isn't going anywhere.  The only way he is moved is if he has a big season but the team stays in the basement.  It would be quite remarkable for both of those things to happen at the same time. 

 

I like the idea of getting younger faster and better defensively.  Marner just doesn't feel like a good fit for this team though.  

[King Heffy]

Why would we want a gutless floater who refuses to backcheck and has one of the worst contracts in the league?  Miller at least cares about winning, unlike Mitch the bitch.

Edited October 30, 2022 by King Heffy

[Baratheon]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Marner is better defensively, younger, has a better track record of producing offense, and will likely continue to as Miller declines, he doesn't just benefit from playing with Matthew's he's a large part of their mutual success 

 

Put him with Petey and he'd explode, put him with Horvat and he'd probably explode, Miller is not the superior player 

I hear this logic but I don't think he would change things enough.  He'd make our cap situation worse and therefore it would be more difficult to fix the rest of the team.  I guess you get out from his contract a few years earlier so there's that?

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Baratheon said:

I hear this logic but I don't think he would change things enough.  He'd make our cap situation worse and therefore it would be more difficult to fix the rest of the team.  I guess you get out from his contract a few years earlier so there's that?

I agree but there's no way the trade would ever happen, Miller ain't worth Marner. Particularly now that Miller is playing wing again.

 

I'm just pointing out who's better and why Toronto would say no, Marner will likely never be a Canuck.

 

His regular season and playoff numbers speak for themselves and he's only 25.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/mitchell-marner

 

[-DLC-]

2 hours ago, gurn said:

Just mentioning that our presumed number one center, has turned into a number one winger.

Maybe he gets going enough to be that center again, maybe not.

7 more years to find out.

Nice to have versatility and someone who can readily adapt to whatever role is asked of him.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, -DLC- said:

Nice to have versatility and someone who can readily adapt to whatever role is asked of him.

the reason the Leaves would take Miller is Marner is not a big threat in the playoffs, he's just not physical enough to dominate a game. 

 

So they can keep him 

[Gurn]

4 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Nice to have versatility and someone who can readily adapt to whatever role is asked of him.

Yes, it is good that he can play wing, as he isn't much as a center this year.

[AV.]

11 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Why would we want a gutless floater who refuses to backcheck and has one of the worst contracts in the league?  Miller at least cares about winning, unlike Mitch the bitch.

If Miller's play keeps up into next season, this question you're asking is going to be a rhetorical one, sooner rather than later (minus the whole "gutless" part).

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

the reason the Leaves would take Miller is Marner is not a big threat in the playoffs, he's just not physical enough to dominate a game. 

 

So they can keep him 

Marner has 33 points in 39 playoff games, seems to do just fine 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Marner has 33 points in 39 playoff games, seems to do just fine 

go back and re-watch the games, he's not a dominant player in the playoffs. 

 

7 goals over 5 series, two series with no goals at all. Not even remotely close to dominant. For 10 mil, you need to dominate games in the playoffs. 

[-DLC-]

40 minutes ago, gurn said:

Yes, it is good that he can play wing, as he isn't much as a center this year.

The entire team was struggling, yes.

 

But thank god he's not a prima donna and is willing to adjust according to what his team needs. The guy just wants to win and that's a quality that helps him drive this team at times.

[-DLC-]

Let's let some Leaf fans weigh in ... you know, the ones who watch the games. This is from Friday (and before you chime in with "sure, after a loss" remember that our players are also being compared based on our rough start without any regard for what JT did do last year...seems only fair to take the current situation into account for them/the Leafs too):

 

Quote

the other 3, Mitchy, Mattie, and Willie Ny, the corner shy guy. Show em the door. I would rather some lesser skilled players who actually gave a shite, then this crap year after year.

Quote

man who seen this coming when Matthews, Marner and Nylander entered the league on ELCs.
so disappointing this is what we got after that Washington series when we lost in Game 6.

Quote

not much we can do about it this year but both Marner and Matthews needs to be traded for more competitive skilled guys.

After the Marner "we're grown men" video:

 

Quote

Matthews looked arrogant
Marner looked arrogant and stupid

 

There's lots more...we can dig into last year or the year before to see that Marner isn't always in the golden category either. Despite his stats. 

 

Team game. But the grass is always greener on the other side. 

 

No one can question JT's determination to win/not lose. Not sure if Mitchy has the same raw/pissed off emotion that can elevate in times of trouble like JT can. Power forwards are hard to come by and JT's definitely one of them. (Loved the fact that he was "fired up" after seeing Pearson fight and he wanted to get in on that too....and did).

 

I don't want cute cuddly Mitch on the team...I want foul, miserable JT. 

 

But enough from me...we all know how I feel. It's not just bias based though...I know what kind of players do well in the playoffs. Can save the sinking ship because they do have pride. Anyone denying that just needs to recall what JT did last year when many would've just thrown in the towel and moved on.

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, JM_ said:

go back and re-watch the games, he's not a dominant player in the playoffs. 

 

7 goals over 5 series, two series with no goals at all. Not even remotely close to dominant. For 10 mil, you need to dominate games in the playoffs. 

I didn't say he's dominant. You said he's not a big threat though, that doesn't hold up given the numbers. Playoffs are also a team bit, you rarely win or lose on the back of one guy and it's not as if Marner hasn't been producing. 

 

Take a look at his historical numbers in both the regular season and playoffs, now look at JT's. Look at where Marner starter and what he's done since, now look at JT. I'm not a Toronto fan, they're my least favourite team after Edmonton, but I'm still able to recognize game and I've no issue being complimentary of players who play for other teams. 

 

Fans like to gush about JT's 99, Marner put up 97 at 24-25. He also put up 94 in his third season. Who's more likely to hit that bracket again? I wouldn't bet on Miller. 

 

I'm not advocating for us acquiring Marner, the Leafs won't trade him. Particularly for Miller. But I am saying he's better. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Coconuts

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I didn't say he's dominant. You said he's not a big threat though, that doesn't hold up given the numbers. Playoffs are also a team bit, you rarely win or lose on the back of one guy and it's not as if Marner hasn't been producing. 

how can you look at no goals in two series, and say he's a producer? 

 

Both Bo and Petey have more goals in one run than Marner had in 5. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Take a look at his historical numbers in both the regular season and playoffs, now look at JT's. Look at where Marner starter and what he's done since, now look at JT. I'm not a Toronto fan, they're my least favourite team after Edmonton, but I'm still able to recognize game and I've no issue being complimentary of players who play for other teams. 

 

Fans like to gush about JT's 99, Marner put up 97 at 24-25. He also put up 94 in his third season. Who's more likely to hit that bracket again? I wouldn't bet on Miller. 

JT was being used on the 3rd lines in his appearances tho until the bubble with us, and was a PPG producer as well. 

 

From a playoff production  pov, Miller looks to be just as good, and he brings a physical element Marner can't.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by JM_

[KirkSave]

2 hours ago, gurn said:

Just mentioning that our presumed number one center, has turned into a number one winger.

Maybe he gets going enough to be that center again, maybe not.

7 more years to find out.

According to this weeks HNIC in Canada, the majority of play drivers are wingers because of the way the game is played now. They have less responsibility defensively than centers and have the puck on their sticks more. Last year the guys with the most apples were wingers. 

 

Whether JT is playing C or wing, he drives play for us, costs less than Marner and actually plays with grit and edge, 2 major things lacking in Marner's game.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

how can you look at no goals in two series, and say he's a producer? 

 

Both Bo and Petey have more goals in one run than Marner had in 5. 

 

 

JT was being used on the 3rd lines in his appearances tho until the bubble with us. 

 

 

Sometimes it goes that way, happened with Mark Stone against Montreal. But his numbers from a year to year basis show me he's producing. Could he or should he produce more? Sure, but then we wouldn't get to joke about the Leafs losing in the 1st would we? 

 

Sure, and they have one sample size each in recent memory. Would you argue Pettersson was better than Marner last season based on the act he's scored more playoff goals? 

 

Sure, and if the coaching staff had thought he'd have been better on the top two lines he probably would have been. I reckon Jon Cooper probably knows how to assess his players, and knows what he's doing. 

[Mustard Tiger]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

For Marner and ? 

Picks obvs! They hand them out like candy near the TDL 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Sometimes it goes that way, happened with Mark Stone against Montreal. But his numbers from a year to year basis show me he's producing. Could he or should he produce more? Sure, but then we wouldn't get to joke about the Leafs losing in the 1st would we? 

 

Sure, and they have one sample size each in recent memory. Would you argue Pettersson was better than Marner last season based on the act he's scored more playoff goals? 

 

Sure, and if the coaching staff had thought he'd have been better on the top two lines he probably would have been. I reckon Jon Cooper probably knows how to assess his players, and knows what he's doing. 

but you know that hockey really does have two seasons. No doubt you take Marner hands down over Miller from a regular season point producing pov. 

 

But in the playoffs, Mitch has shown he's hit and miss. Thats not me spinning, you just have to look at the two appearances he got skunked. He also doesn't bring any physical play to make up for it when he's not scoring.

 

[King Heffy]

47 minutes ago, AV. said:

If Miller's play keeps up into next season, this question you're asking is going to be a rhetorical one, sooner rather than later (minus the whole "gutless" part).

Miller has at least shown he's capable of playing like a man though.  Marner is soft as hell and got his coach fired when he was asked to put in an acceptable effort.  Miller isn't perfect, but he still brings far more to the table than a guy who doesn't even try in the playoffs.  No one can accuse Miller of not caring about winning, unlike Marner.

Edited October 30, 2022 by King Heffy

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but you know that hockey really does have two seasons. No doubt you take Marner hands down over Miller from a regular season point producing pov. 

 

But in the playoffs, Mitch has shown he's hit and miss. Thats not me spinning, you just have to look at the two appearances he got skunked. He also doesn't bring any physical play to make up for it when he's not scoring.

 

The caveat to your statement is that the entire Toronto Maple Leafs squad has shown they're hit and miss come playoff time. Team game at the end of the day. They hit enough to get to game seven but can't close it out. Any way you spin it, whether he's worth his salary come playoff time or not, 33 points in 39 games tells me he's showing up and producing more often than not. He's also 4-5 years younger than Miller so the comparison isn't direct, you'd have a better picture if they were the same age but they aren't. Miller's likely peaked, I reckon Marner hasn't. Whether Marner is worth his salary come playoff thus far? That's another argument. But overall, yeah, I'd say Marner is better and when they both wrap up their careers the numbers probably indicate this. 

 

Ain't a physical player, ain't his game. Just like it ain't Petey's. Or Boeser's. Or Bo's for the most part. That's why you have other guys on the roster. I'd argue he brings better defensive attributes to the table though to counteract some of this. 

 

Believe what you want though, I don't have all day to go around in circles on this. Let's agree to disagree on who's better. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Coconuts