(Proposal) for Mitchell Marner

[Warhippy]

29 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Missed Miller pummel Soucy, and finish 2nd on the team in hits last season? 

And?  Tough isn't just hits and a couple punches thrown when the refs can break it up.

 

Tough is never giving up.  Garland is the toughest guy on our team, Miller doesn't come close.

[canuck73_3]

25 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

And?  Tough isn't just hits and a couple punches thrown when the refs can break it up.

 

Tough is never giving up.  Garland is the toughest guy on our team, Miller doesn't come close.

That's a take. Not entirely accurate one but a take. Not even close? Lmao

[Alflives]

29 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

And?  Tough isn't just hits and a couple punches thrown when the refs can break it up.

 

Tough is never giving up.  Garland is the toughest guy on our team, Miller doesn't come close.

Yup.  Little guys, like Garland, have to be tough as nails to play in the NHL.  Marner is a target every shift.  He’s the guy with the puck.  And being smaller means he’s got to b3 tough to take the abuse coming his way.  If the Leafs would do this trade (Miller for Marner) I’d hope JR/Allvin would jump on it, regardless of just extending Miller.  The Leafs suck old pucks, but Marner is a player.  Ron Ellis like.  

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

That's a take. Not entirely accurate one but a take. Not even close? Lmao

Those are words.

 

Certainly more than 3.

 

But still not worth the time you took to write them.

 

Oh, sorry almost forgot the lmao

Edited October 31, 2022 by Warhippy

[canuck73_3]

13 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Those are words.

 

Certainly more than 3.

 

But still not worth the time you took to write them.

 

Oh, sorry almost forgot the lmao

No matter how much you say it Garland is not tougher than Miller. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

No matter how much you say it Garland is not tougher than Miller. 

Okay.  But Marner is three times the better player.  

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

No matter how much you say it Garland is not tougher than Miller. 

Sure bud.  Because tough only applies to hitting and occasionally throwing two punches at a helmet

 

Totally does not include or mean never giving up on a play, hard back checking, dogging opposing players and not giving up the puck, lifting your stick to look at the tape and casually skating back to the bench while the opposing team scores on you.

 

I mean if it did, then it might mean garland is possibly the toughest guys on the team.  But luckily it only means gentle bumps along the boards and throwing fists when the refs can break it up.

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Sure bud.  Because tough only applies to hitting and occasionally throwing two punches at a helmet

 

Totally does not include or mean never giving up on a play, hard back checking, dogging opposing players and not giving up the puck, lifting your stick to look at the tape and casually skating back to the bench while the opposing team scores on you.

 

I mean if it did, then it might mean garland is possibly the toughest guys on the team.  But luckily it only means gentle bumps along the boards and throwing fists when the refs can break it up.

You’re sandbagging Miller a lot. And this is from someone who has been very critical of Miller this year. 

[shiznak]

8 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Our team needs to get tougher, Miller for Marner does the opposite of that. On majority of teams I would welcome Marner but, unless this move were to come with cap relief to address that it is thanks but no thanks from me. 

I would trade in our lack of toughness for better defensive support by our forwards. Every. Single. Time. Especially, when that’s been our Achilles’ heel for the past 8 years. 

[-DLC-]

Nope, no thanks....pass. He comes off as arrogant (lol I see people burning his jersey on Twitter today. Might be fake/old but I'm opting out on Marner).

 

"Everyone tried to" (no accountability in that statement)

 

[Warhippy]

9 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

You’re sandbagging Miller a lot. And this is from someone who has been very critical of Miller this year. 

So being honest in my opinion about Miller is somehow different than what people are saying about Marner due to his simply being a Leaf?

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, -DLC- said:

Nope, no thanks....pass. He comes off as arrogant (lol I see people burning his jersey on Twitter today. Might be fake/old but I'm opting out on Marner).

 

I see nothing wrong with what he said.  Certainly no different than comments made by our boys in their first 7 games

[-DLC-]

11 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Sure bud.  Because tough only applies to hitting and occasionally throwing two punches at a helmet

 

Totally does not include or mean never giving up on a play, hard back checking, dogging opposing players and not giving up the puck, lifting your stick to look at the tape and casually skating back to the bench while the opposing team scores on you.

 

I mean if it did, then it might mean garland is possibly the toughest guys on the team.  But luckily it only means gentle bumps along the boards and throwing fists when the refs can break it up.

Sure bud.

 

At least Miller is self aware...he knows those things are an issue and has explained how his emotion gets in the way at times. He has acknowledged it and that's the first step toward improvement. Not "everyone tries to" stuff.

 

See the clip of Marner then tell me he owns some accountability. Doesn't seem like he does. Leafs are the golden boys and mean people are saying things about them. 

 

I'd rather have a guy who will slam a door then go out the next shift and make up for his  momentary lapse of focus as he's pissed off. Slam someone into the boards, drive the net, etc. Toughness.

 

 

[-DLC-]

Quote

"I’ve been on for all eight f*cking goals":

That's a little different. Accountable.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

Sure bud.

 

At least Miller is self aware...he knows those things are an issue and has explained how his emotion gets in the way at times. He has acknowledged it and that's the first step toward improvement. Not "everyone tries to" stuff.

 

See the clip of Marner then tell me he owns some accountability. Doesn't seem like he does. Leafs are the golden boys and mean people are saying things about them. 

 

I'd rather have a guy who will slam a door then go out the next shift and make up for his  momentary lapse of focus as he's pissed off. Slam someone into the boards, drive the net, etc. Toughness.

 

 

Pretending somehow that one is different than the other is fine.

 

but it aint my thing deb

 

I've watched marner extensively.  The ridiculous comments on this forum show that people don't.  That's not my issue.  The guy bleeds hockey and the suggestion he is gutless, doesn't backcheck, isn't tough or defensively sound is ridiculous and honestly childish.  I am a hockey fan not a team fan.  If there was a 1-1 trade for marner-miller, i'd walk him to the airport.

 

My opinion and I won't argue it with anyone.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Warhippy

[IBatch]

On 10/30/2022 at 11:59 AM, Nooks said:

Soft, small, undersized winger.  We don’t need more of those, there’s a reason why Toronto hasn’t been out of the first round.

If we had TO's team, we'd have some pretty good excuse for each first round exit.   Last season it was TB,  Boston early on. Most of their first round exits, went to the final or did some damage.   That's a pretty good division.   Basically they were up against some stiff competition.   They remind me a little of the WCE era team actually.   Cloutier gets the blame mostly (and not many bring up our lack of secondary scoring, which was often a problem too).  

 

Goaltending is also used in TO.   If we are brutally honest, TO/Vs TB, was one of the best rounds last post season.   And the margin of error was razor thin.   I'd actually have been curious  to see what they could do against COL.   

 

No excuses is their current mantra.   The Sundin teams could at least win a round, but so far, since expansion, their 93 team is still their high water mark lol.   Nice. 

[JM_]

40 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Pretending somehow that one is different than the other is fine.

 

but it aint my thing deb

 

I've watched marner extensively.  The ridiculous comments on this forum show that people don't.  That's not my issue.  The guy bleeds hockey and the suggestion he is gutless, doesn't backcheck, isn't tough or defensively sound is ridiculous and honestly childish.  I am a hockey fan not a team fan.  If there was a 1-1 trade for marner-miller, i'd walk him to the airport.

 

My opinion and I won't argue it with anyone.

Miller comparisons aside, do you really think Marner has performed in the playoffs like a 10.9 mil player? 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

Miller comparisons aside, do you really think Marner has performed in the playoffs like a 10.9 mil player? 

Aside from 2018 yes.  100% by todays contract standards.  it's not his fault Maple Leaf brass gave him that ridiculous contract.  If he was $8 million a year people would still be bringing it up as though somehow his playoff performances aren't up to par.  Which is ridiculous

 

He is one of the few forwards in that entire top 9 that does everything he can but because he's smaller he gets bodied hard.  his body of work in the playoffs, point production.  He had one questionable year, two years where he was held from scoring a goal.  but the guy gives it his all.  His production and work ethic in the playoffs to this point right now is almost perfectly mirroring Henrik Sedin at 25 but he skates harder.

 

The heat and hate he gets is honestly ridiculous 

 

Here's the Toronto big 4

 

Marner:  https://www.nhl.com/player/mitchell-marner-8478483?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

Matthews:  https://www.nhl.com/player/auston-matthews-8479318?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

Tavares: https://www.nhl.com/player/john-tavares-8475166?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

Nylander:  https://www.nhl.com/player/william-nylander-8477939?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

 

And for fun, here's Henrik Sedin; note it's just the first 5 playoff seasons due to the age gap: https://www.nhl.com/player/henrik-sedin-8467876?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

 

Somehow Marner is the whipping boy while actually being the better player while only generating 11 of his 33 playoff points on the PP.  he blocks shots.  He has a smaller body so shows up more in the giveaways but his takeaways are above the rest of the big 4.  Like I don't get the hate or comments about this kid outside of simple bias and or ignorance

[JM_]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Aside from 2018 yes.  100% by todays contract standards.  it's not his fault Maple Leaf brass gave him that ridiculous contract.  If he was $8 million a year people would still be bringing it up as though somehow his playoff performances aren't up to par.  Which is ridiculous

 

He is one of the few forwards in that entire top 9 that does everything he can but because he's smaller he gets bodied hard.  his body of work in the playoffs, point production.  He had one questionable year, two years where he was held from scoring a goal.  but the guy gives it his all.  His production and work ethic in the playoffs to this point right now is almost perfectly mirroring Henrik Sedin at 25 but he skates harder.

sorry but that does sound a bit like excuses to me. Not sure I buy the idea that Marner works harder then Henrik did, but OK.

 

You're really working hard to excuse a pretty mediocre 5 appearances here, imo. 

 

Just now, Warhippy said:

 

The heat and hate he gets is honestly ridiculous 

 

Here's the Toronto big 4

 

Marner:  https://www.nhl.com/player/mitchell-marner-8478483?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

Matthews:  https://www.nhl.com/player/auston-matthews-8479318?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

Tavares: https://www.nhl.com/player/john-tavares-8475166?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

Nylander:  https://www.nhl.com/player/william-nylander-8477939?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

 

And for fun, here's Henrik Sedin; note it's just the first 5 playoff seasons due to the age gap: https://www.nhl.com/player/henrik-sedin-8467876?stats=career-p-nhl&season=null

 

Somehow Marner is the whipping boy while actually being the better player while only generating 11 of his 33 playoff points on the PP.  he blocks shots.  He has a smaller body so shows up more in the giveaways but his takeaways are above the rest of the big 4.  Like I don't get the hate or comments about this kid outside of simple bias and or ignorance

Marner isn't on the ice for as many goals as other Leaves, so he might be the best of that group defensively, but that group has choked consistently for many years now when it mattered.

 

imo Marner is very much like Lil Johnny, great regular season producer, too small to be a real difference maker in the playoffs. HIs 5 appearances so far bear that out. Those results are meh. 

 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

So being honest in my opinion about Miller is somehow different than what people are saying about Marner due to his simply being a Leaf?

Of course.   Leafs Suck!   I freaking hated it in the early 90's, they'd come to town and the "Go Leafs Go" chant started.   Maybe you don't remember that or weren't around.  I do.  

 

One of my favourite moments was going to a game with my best man, he played junior with guys like Neely and Wendel Clark ... fan infront of us got excited about the other team scoring a goal against us - kicked his chair hard and then waved his finger back and forth.   Not a peep after that.   No way PHI fans would be accepting of PIT fans screaming "go PENs GO!" in their building.    And neither should we.   So your correct - a bingo.   Marner is a busteroo.   Alf.   He sucks.   At least unless he wears our jersey - then well he's Mat Sundin and turned our entire core into the 2011 team.   Or he's Tyler Toffoli (LA King ... ugh!) and should be signed for 8 years.   Logic goes out the window pretty quick.   

 

 

 

 

As for Marner.    Well he's not cheap - Marner 11ish vs Miller 5.25 - 8.   There is a debate there.   It's not like Miller is playing with Mathews is it?   Or Tavares either.   I'm a Canucks fan first .... and second and third - then a hockey fan yet i make sure i'm educated on the history of the NHL, keep up with prospects coming into the league and what else is going on with other players.   As much as i can anyways.   No way i'm an expert.    And well i live in Ontario the past decade plus - and have to listen to the stuff TO and OTT stuff all the time...Marner is an elite player no doubt.   He's part of the current version of  Alfie - Spezza - Heatley or WCE Naslund Morrison Bertuzzi ... as in the best line in hockey.   Unless McDavid and Drasaitl play together 5 x 5 anyways.  

 

Who really knows what Miller would achieve under the same circumstances.   AM is a goal scoring machine after all.   He's going to be the best TO's ever had which says a lot.   And Marner is only freaking 25.   Let's hope EP does that right?   But , and this is the but,  202 points in 217 games going into this season, and there is no way any hockey fan couldn't argue he'd have done a lot more on AM or Tavares wing.