(Proposal) for Mitchell Marner

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

So being honest in my opinion about Miller is somehow different than what people are saying about Marner due to his simply being a Leaf?

Of course.   Leafs Suck!   I freaking hated it in the early 90's, they'd come to town and the "Go Leafs Go" chant started.   Maybe you don't remember that or weren't around.  I do.  

 

One of my favourite moments was going to a game with my best man, he played junior with guys like Neely and Wendel Clark ... fan infront of us got excited about the other team scoring a goal against us - kicked his chair hard and then waved his finger back and forth.   Not a peep after that.   No way PHI fans would be accepting of PIT fans screaming "go PENs GO!" in their building.    And neither should we.   So your correct - a bingo.   Marner is a busteroo.   Alf.   He sucks.   At least unless he wears our jersey - then well he's Mat Sundin and turned our entire core into the 2011 team.   Or he's Tyler Toffoli (LA King ... ugh!) and should be signed for 8 years.   Logic goes out the window pretty quick.   

 

 

 

 

As for Marner.    Well he's not cheap - Marner 11ish vs Miller 5.25 - 8.   There is a debate there.   It's not like Miller is playing with Mathews is it?   Or Tavares either.   I'm a Canucks fan first .... and second and third - then a hockey fan yet i make sure i'm educated on the history of the NHL, keep up with prospects coming into the league and what else is going on with other players.   As much as i can anyways.   No way i'm an expert.    And well i live in Ontario the past decade plus - and have to listen to the stuff TO and OTT stuff all the time...Marner is an elite player no doubt.   He's part of the current version of  Alfie - Spezza - Heatley or WCE Naslund Morrison Bertuzzi ... as in the best line in hockey.   Unless McDavid and Drasaitl play together 5 x 5 anyways.  

 

Who really knows what Miller would achieve under the same circumstances.   AM is a goal scoring machine after all.   He's going to be the best TO's ever had which says a lot.   And Marner is only freaking 25.   Let's hope EP does that right?   But , and this is the but,  202 points in 217 games going into this season, and there is no way any hockey fan couldn't argue he'd have done a lot more on AM or Tavares wing. 

[Warhippy]

Just now, JM_ said:

sorry but that does sound a bit like excuses to me. Not sure I buy the idea that Marner works harder then Henrik did, but OK.

 

You're really working hard to excuse a pretty mediocre 5 appearances here, imo. 

 

Marner isn't on the ice for as many goals as other Leaves, so he might be the best of that group defensively, but that group has choked consistently for many years now when it mattered.

 

imo Marner is very much like Lil Johnny, great regular season producer, too small to be a real difference maker in the playoffs. HIs 5 appearances so far bear that out. Those results are meh. 

 

So tell me you didn't read the data without saying it.

 

It's ok mate.  Like I said, I won't argue my opinion and honestly I've spent far to much time doing it.  It sounds like excuses to you?  Fine.  Don't think in their first 5 years that Marner has comparable numbers to Henrik with less games played?  Ok.  He's to small to be a difference maker in the playoffs but is only 2 inches shorter and 2 pounds lighter then Hank was when he retired and is in fact taller and heavier than Makar but ok

 

Honestly, that's your opinion and that's fine.  

 

Here's the numbers.  You do you bud.  I'm done here.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Of course.   Leafs Suck!   I freaking hated it in the early 90's, they'd come to town and the "Go Leafs Go" chant started.   Maybe you don't remember that or weren't around.  I do.  

 

One of my favourite moments was going to a game with my best man, he played junior with guys like Neely and Wendel Clark ... fan infront of us got excited about the other team scoring a goal against us - kicked his chair hard and then waved his finger back and forth.   Not a peep after that.   No way PHI fans would be accepting of PIT fans screaming "go PENs GO!" in their building.    And neither should we.   So your correct - a bingo.   Marner is a busteroo.   Alf.   He sucks.   At least unless he wears our jersey - then well he's Mat Sundin and turned our entire core into the 2011 team.   Or he's Tyler Toffoli (LA King ... ugh!) and should be signed for 8 years.   Logic goes out the window pretty quick.   

 

 

 

 

As for Marner.    Well he's not cheap - Marner 11ish vs Miller 5.25 - 8.   There is a debate there.   It's not like Miller is playing with Mathews is it?   Or Tavares either.   I'm a Canucks fan first .... and second and third - then a hockey fan yet i make sure i'm educated on the history of the NHL, keep up with prospects coming into the league and what else is going on with other players.   As much as i can anyways.   No way i'm an expert.    And well i live in Ontario the past decade plus - and have to listen to the stuff TO and OTT stuff all the time...Marner is an elite player no doubt.   He's part of the current version of  Alfie - Spezza - Heatley or WCE Naslund Morrison Bertuzzi ... as in the best line in hockey.   Unless McDavid and Drasaitl play together 5 x 5 anyways.  

 

Who really knows what Miller would achieve under the same circumstances.   AM is a goal scoring machine after all.   He's going to be the best TO's ever had which says a lot.   And Marner is only freaking 25.   Let's hope EP does that right?   But , and this is the but,  202 points in 217 games going into this season, and there is no way any hockey fan couldn't argue he'd have done a lot more on AM or Tavares wing. 

ok

[JM_]

Just now, Warhippy said:

So tell me you didn't read the data without saying it.

 

It's ok mate.  Like I said, I won't argue my opinion and honestly I've spent far to much time doing it.  It sounds like excuses to you?  Fine.  Don't think in their first 5 years that Marner has comparable numbers to Henrik with less games played?  Ok.  He's to small to be a difference maker in the playoffs but is only 2 inches shorter and 2 pounds lighter then Hank was when he retired and is in fact taller and heavier than Makar but ok

 

Honestly, that's your opinion and that's fine.  

 

Here's the numbers.  You do you bud.  I'm done here.

 ok man, you don't need to get upset about it. You're trying to defend a position on some weak ground, not sure why. 

 

 

Show me the comp when Marner helps his team go on a real cup run. 

 

 

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

ok

Yes your right.  My main point is, it's hard to tell for sure unless players are on the same line.   And that Canucks don't like Leafs and have reasons for that.   So logic goes out the window. 

 

Edit: And agree - Marner for sure is the better player. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by IBatch

[Warhippy]

10 minutes ago, JM_ said:

 ok man, you don't need to get upset about it.

Ok

 

10 minutes ago, JM_ said:

You're trying to defend a position on some weak ground, not sure why. 

Ok

 

10 minutes ago, JM_ said:

Show me the comp when Marner helps his team go on a real cup run. 

Ok

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

So tell me you didn't read the data without saying it.

 

It's ok mate.  Like I said, I won't argue my opinion and honestly I've spent far to much time doing it.  It sounds like excuses to you?  Fine.  Don't think in their first 5 years that Marner has comparable numbers to Henrik with less games played?  Ok.  He's to small to be a difference maker in the playoffs but is only 2 inches shorter and 2 pounds lighter then Hank was when he retired and is in fact taller and heavier than Makar but ok

 

Honestly, that's your opinion and that's fine.  

 

Here's the numbers.  You do you bud.  I'm done here.

so just to point something out here - in the year where Henrik was the top C, and Marner's best year, Henrik outperforms him.

[Coconuts]

@Alflives you probably didn't see this thread going this way but I wanna thank you

 

Most entertaining thread I've read all year 

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, JM_ said:

so just to point something out here - in the year where Henrik was the top C, and Marner's best year, Henrik outperforms him.

ok.

[JM_]

someone has taken their ball and gone home 

[Warhippy]

Just now, JM_ said:

someone has taken their ball and gone home 

Ok

Edited October 31, 2022 by Warhippy

[Bobby James]

Leafs hang up right away. 

 

Maybe they'd trade Nylander but honestly he's been pretty solid for them for a while. 

 

I'd do Miller for Nylander though (still think leafs say no). 

 

A more realistic proposal though is:

 

Miller for Tavares and a pick or prospect. 

 

I'd do that deal. 3 years left. He's overpaid a bit but can still produce. Plus we get a 1st or a prospect of theirs. Toronto gets a younger and cheaper C but for term. Canucks take a big cap hit but the guy will still play top 6 for us and we focus our future around Petey/Hughes. Also likely easier to buy him out or dump the contract in the final year if needed. 

[JL44]

Kuzy petty mikeyev

marner horvat podzilla. 
add some weight to the third line

joshua lazar aman/studnicka 
 

 

[NUCKER67]

IF they brought in Marner for Miller

 

Marner - Horvat - Podkolzin

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Mikheyev

Hoglander - Lazar/Aman - Garland

Pearson - Studnicka - Joshua

 

Trade Boeser too

[Alflives]

5 hours ago, Bobby James said:

Leafs hang up right away. 

 

Maybe they'd trade Nylander but honestly he's been pretty solid for them for a while. 

 

I'd do Miller for Nylander though (still think leafs say no). 

 

A more realistic proposal though is:

 

Miller for Tavares and a pick or prospect. 

 

I'd do that deal. 3 years left. He's overpaid a bit but can still produce. Plus we get a 1st or a prospect of theirs. Toronto gets a younger and cheaper C but for term. Canucks take a big cap hit but the guy will still play top 6 for us and we focus our future around Petey/Hughes. Also likely easier to buy him out or dump the contract in the final year if needed. 

Tavares has a full no move.  Marner is the only Leaf we want.  The rest are craperolla.  Miller + Ferland is more than fair.  Dumbass and Shamaplan and Leaf fans (except the Mrs, of course) can jump off bridges if they don’t like it. 

[qwijibo]

Vancouver couldn’t do a 1-1 deal with Miller and Marner this season even if they wanted to.   Vancouver has already used up all but $2.5m of their available LTIR cap overage.  Marner’s cap hit is $5.65 more than Millers hit this season. 

[shiznak]

14 hours ago, JM_ said:

sorry but that does sound a bit like excuses to me. Not sure I buy the idea that Marner works harder then Henrik did, but OK.

 

You're really working hard to excuse a pretty mediocre 5 appearances here, imo. 

 

Marner isn't on the ice for as many goals as other Leaves, so he might be the best of that group defensively, but that group has choked consistently for many years now when it mattered.

 

imo Marner is very much like Lil Johnny, great regular season producer, too small to be a real difference maker in the playoffs. HIs 5 appearances so far bear that out. Those results are meh. 

 

 

Let’s worry about getting to the dance, and we can go on from there. 
 

Marner has yet to miss the post-season, throughout his career, dating back to his junior days. People say the Memorial Cup is the hardest championship to win and yet he was easily the best Knights player during that run, winning playoff MVP.
 

This team has missed the playoffs 7 out of 9 seasons since 2013. Adding a player like Marner, fixes two of our biggest problems. One; the lack of support by the forward group in the defensive zone. Two; special teams. 

 

[-DLC-]

6 hours ago, shiznak said:

 

Let’s worry about getting to the dance, and we can go on from there. 
 

Marner has yet to miss the post-season, throughout his career, dating back to his junior days. People say the Memorial Cup is the hardest championship to win and yet he was easily the best Knights player during that run, winning playoff MVP.
 

This team has missed the playoffs 7 out of 9 seasons since 2013. Adding a player like Marner, fixes two of our biggest problems. One; the lack of support by the forward group in the defensive zone. Two; special teams. 

 

Again...when you have the #1 draft pick overall it matters. You're ahead of the game at that point.

 

Getting knocked out in the first round with that pick means you're still not there yet (either).

 

Thing is, some here excuse his lack of size but that isn't something at this point we should be compromising. We need more grit, not less. Miller gives us that, Marner doesn't.

[JM_]

6 hours ago, shiznak said:

 

This team has missed the playoffs 7 out of 9 seasons since 2013. Adding a player like Marner, fixes two of our biggest problems. One; the lack of support by the forward group in the defensive zone. Two; special teams. 

 

for sure he'd be an awesome regular season addition. But is the cost worth it? 10.9 mil is a lot of cap space right now. I do think thats a legit debate to have.

 

All I'm pointing out is he hasn't been close to dominant in the playoffs, and has been handled quite effectively in two appearances. There's no spin or angle to that comment, it's just a plain fact if people can get their backs down and just look at the results.  

 

If we're going to allocate 11 mil to a guy he needs to be 'that guy' in the playoffs as well. 

 

And we should do this again when it comes time to re-sign Petey because he'll be looking for something around 10 for sure. Its one of the reasons I want to see him in the playoffs again before we can extend him. 

[-DLC-]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

But is the cost worth it? 10.9 mil is a lot of cap space right now. I do think thats a legit debate to have.

 

If we're going to allocate 11 mil to a guy he needs to be 'that guy' in the playoffs as well. 

 

Yep, 100%