Time to trade our first round draft pick?

[D.B Cooper]

Oops

Edited November 3, 2022 by D.B Cooper
I suck at stuff

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

I’m sorry, but what the hell have you seen from this team makes you think the playoffs are an option?  
 

They are currently the worst team in the league.  

On Wednesday’s, first in the month, we have more shots (when the moon is in eclipse) than any British Hockey league team.  If that doesn’t say Stanley Cup, then what does?  Is old drunk Alf the only one who sees this?

Edited November 3, 2022 by Alflives

[UnkNuk]

52 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sure, if we swap it with Arizona I would be okay with that...

Bingo!  We're making progress. So we're agreed that it can make sense for the Canucks to swap their first round pick in the '23 draft with some other team's first round pick in the '23 draft.

 

Now, what we need is for Rutherford to identify which teams are probably going to be bottom feeders this season (or at least finish lower than the Canucks).  Then we hope that the gm of one of these teams thinks his team is better than it is and that the Canucks will finish below them.  We swap picks.  Then we zoom into the playoffs while this other team craters.  Voilà!  We have the Canucks in the playoffs and we also have a shot at Bedard.

[sxqhfeh]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Aquilini?  

 

[UnkNuk]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I get what you’re suggesting.  I’m drunk, but get it.

Maybe that's what it takes to understand my point!

 

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

You believe we are a 10-20 place team and that there are a couple teams currently in a playoff spot (like Buffalo) who we could switch firsts with and collect other assets.  Then, by the end of the year we are drafting 10-20 and they are drafting top five.  We switch picks and are happy.  But maybe we are actually the bottom five team, and switch picks and draft 17?  Maybe it’s better to keep our pick and add more by trading guys like Bo, Miller, Demko, Hughes and do a proper rebuild? 

This is the crucial question.  As I mentioned in my original post, this strategy is based on the assumption that we are going to make the playoffs this year.  And that our current position at the bottom of the standings is misleading.  But that 'misleading position' might be able to be used to our advantage.

[UnkNuk]

52 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said:

I’m sorry, but what the hell have you seen from this team makes you think the playoffs are an option?  
 

They are currently the worst team in the league.  

I'm basing it on last season's performance when they played .649 hockey over 57 games with BB as coach.  That indicates to me that this team has talent enough to get into the playoffs.

[cuporbust]

Sure. Why not. Lol 

[RU SERIOUS]

Hey Jim, lay off the stuff.  It's gonna mess with your brain....

[RU SERIOUS]

8 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

At this moment, the Canucks are in last place in the NHL.

While this is not anything we wanted or expected, it may provide a golden opportunity for those of us who believe this record is a temporary aberration and that the Canucks are going to make the playoffs this year.

Because the Canucks are in last place, our first round draft pick's value is as about as high as it's going to be.  So perhaps we should think about trading it.

Hear me out.

What would be needed is to identify a gm of a bubble team who thinks his team is going to make the playoffs but isn't.  In fact, it's probably going to do quite poorly.  This gm also has to believe that the Canucks are as bad as their current record indicates.  The Canucks then offer to trade one or two of our players plus our first round draft pick to this team in exchange for one or two of their players and their first round draft pick.  Because our draft pick, currently, has higher value than this other team's pick, we would expect to get better players in return.

Then, if all goes according to plan, the Canucks regain their mojo and start playing decent hockey and make the playoffs.  Meanwhile, this other team staggers and falls down the NHL standings.

In this way, the Canucks would have the best of both worlds.  We would have a team in the playoffs plus a shot at getting Connor Bedard or one of the other highly rated players available in the upcoming Draft.

Win-win.

What do you think?

I thought all you..... 's ......would have learned by now, after seeing the mess he left this franchise in.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by RU SERIOUS

[Hairy Kneel]

[PuckYa]

10 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

At this moment, the Canucks are in last place in the NHL.

While this is not anything we wanted or expected, it may provide a golden opportunity for those of us who believe this record is a temporary aberration and that the Canucks are going to make the playoffs this year.

Because the Canucks are in last place, our first round draft pick's value is as about as high as it's going to be.  So perhaps we should think about trading it.

Hear me out.

What would be needed is to identify a gm of a bubble team who thinks his team is going to make the playoffs but isn't.  In fact, it's probably going to do quite poorly.  This gm also has to believe that the Canucks are as bad as their current record indicates.  The Canucks then offer to trade one or two of our players plus our first round draft pick to this team in exchange for one or two of their players and their first round draft pick.  Because our draft pick, currently, has higher value than this other team's pick, we would expect to get better players in return.

Then, if all goes according to plan, the Canucks regain their mojo and start playing decent hockey and make the playoffs.  Meanwhile, this other team staggers and falls down the NHL standings.

In this way, the Canucks would have the best of both worlds.  We would have a team in the playoffs plus a shot at getting Connor Bedard or one of the other highly rated players available in the upcoming Draft.

Win-win.

What do you think?

 

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Sure. Why not. Lol 

Basically we've cratered, and we might as well just wallow in the bottom for a while?

[Provost]

3 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

Bingo!  We're making progress. So we're agreed that it can make sense for the Canucks to swap their first round pick in the '23 draft with some other team's first round pick in the '23 draft.

 

Now, what we need is for Rutherford to identify which teams are probably going to be bottom feeders this season (or at least finish lower than the Canucks).  Then we hope that the gm of one of these teams thinks his team is better than it is and that the Canucks will finish below them.  We swap picks.  Then we zoom into the playoffs while this other team craters.  Voilà!  We have the Canucks in the playoffs and we also have a shot at Bedard.

So we just have to find a worse team than us that has a GM who thinks they have a good team… but at the same time is willing to give us their good roster players in order to get our higher 1st round pick…. Even though that would make them worse in a season they are convinced they are able to compete.

 

Then we have to turn the season around and make the playoffs while the team we traded with ends up tanking and giving us a top pick that we are already currently in line to get.

 

… that seems likely and simple.

 

Hear me out here.  What if we expose a bunch of spiders to massive amounts of radiation, then release them into our dressing room.  They will then bite our players and give them superpowers, which they will immediately learn to use.  Then we hire a hypnotist to convince them all to keep playing hockey instead of saving mankind so that we have a massive advantage.

 

Voila.  Stanley Cup baby!

 

[NHL'er]

10 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

« Starts playing Sweet Caroline » 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Muttley said:

 

Think this is the OPs thinking.   He's a gambler that's for sure...it's a hypothetical, who are these players we are swapping?    

 

Would you do Horvat for Dobson and switch firsts?   That would be awfully tempting wouldn't it.  

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

Maybe that's what it takes to understand my point!

 

This is the crucial question.  As I mentioned in my original post, this strategy is based on the assumption that we are going to make the playoffs this year.  And that our current position at the bottom of the standings is misleading.  But that 'misleading position' might be able to be used to our advantage.

The reason your getting the raspberry, is fans have lost their faith this team is a good as Bruce had them playing last season... IF and this is the big IF, let's say the Canucks play .649 from here on out we'd end up with around 99 points.  So i get your enthusiasm.   What i don't get, is how this team can't play 60 full minutes.   Our third periods are bad ... last year it was our first periods lol, and we had to win often behind a goal or two.    Something is stinky in that dressing room.    Horvat is scoring which is nice ... Miller is getting his points but he's not playing like he was for us down the stretch.   

 

We are scoring enough goals to win lowish scoring games, but this teams defense doesn't work well with that.   The only way we can be a good team, is by playing on the other side of the ice, at least 60% of the time..

 

So far, the only guys that are benefiting from this start is Horvats and Travis Greens potential future.    For all the hate and vitriol Green got, at least almost always, he was able to get a full effort from his players and some, despite his rigidity.   Bruce is a motivational coach.   Not sure what sort of tricks he's got left in his toolbox.   Bag skating lol.   Or an F bomb tirade maybe. 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The reason your getting the raspberry, is fans have lost their faith this team is a good as Bruce had them playing last season... IF and this is the big IF, let's say the Canucks play .649 from here on out we'd end up with around 99 points.  So i get your enthusiasm.   What i don't get, is how this team can't play 60 full minutes.   Our third periods are bad ... last year it was our first periods lol, and we had to win often behind a goal or two.    Something is stinky in that dressing room.    Horvat is scoring which is nice ... Miller is getting his points but he's not playing like he was for us down the stretch.   

 

We are scoring enough goals to win lowish scoring games, but this teams defense doesn't work well with that.   The only way we can be a good team, is by playing on the other side of the ice, at least 60% of the time..

 

So far, the only guys that are benefiting from this start is Horvats and Travis Greens potential future.    For all the hate and vitriol Green got, at least almost always, he was able to get a full effort from his players and some, despite his rigidity.   Bruce is a motivational coach.   Not sure what sort of tricks he's got left in his toolbox.   Bag skating lol.   Or an F bomb tirade maybe. 

I think Bruce has gotten the most he can out of this bunch.  His motivational speeches don't work anymore.  We need a coach that has a much better system in place, like Carolina or New Jersey.  I don't think Bruce is that type of coach which is why he has never went far in the playoffs.  At the end of the day, the rah rah and f bombs can only take you so far.

 

If you look at our team we don't really play a system that we can duplicate each and every game.  Lines are changed almost every game, our defencemen are always caught out of position.  I think this is why Demko is having such a bad year. His rhythm is completely thrown off.  There is just too much chaos around him.

 

For all the ripping Green got, he did play a system that the players could understand.  The system just didn't work well enough to succeed.  With Boudreau it's just let's go and score some goals and hit some people.  Kinda like Mike Keenan.  Keenan was successful and did win a cup but, just like Boudreau, bounced around alot of teams and never stuck with a team for a long period of time.  I think might have coached for every team in the league, lol...

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Think this is the OPs thinking.   He's a gambler that's for sure...it's a hypothetical, who are these players we are swapping?    

 

Would you do Horvat for Dobson and switch firsts?   That would be awfully tempting wouldn't it.  

That is exactly what we need to do.  Or Horvat to Detroit for Seider and switch firsts.  With our luck though, we would end up in last place, win the lottery and either NYI or Detroit would end up with Bedard while we draft a 3rd Elias Pettersson...

[IBatch]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think Bruce has gotten the most he can out of this bunch.  His motivational speeches don't work anymore.  We need a coach that has a much better system in place, like Carolina or New Jersey.  I don't think Bruce is that type of coach which is why he has never went far in the playoffs.  At the end of the day, the rah rah and f bombs can only take you so far.

 

If you look at our team we don't really play a system that we can duplicate each and every game.  Lines are changed almost every game, our defencemen are always caught out of position.  I think this is why Demko is having such a bad year. His rhythm is completely thrown off.  There is just too much chaos around him.

 

For all the ripping Green got, he did play a system that the players could understand.  The system just didn't work well enough to succeed.  With Boudreau it's just let's go and score some goals and hit some people.  Kinda like Mike Keenan.  Keenan was successful and did win a cup but, just like Boudreau, bounced around alot of teams and never stuck with a team for a long period of time.  I think might have coached for every team in the league, lol...

Green is a very cerebral guy and coach.   Personally felt he overachieved modestly   

most of the time he was here with us.   Also was good with our young players, when someone was playing well, rewarded them with the minutes, EP, Brock and QHs owe him some meals.   Some coaches wouldn't be so gracious with the minutes he threw at them early...didn't take long before Brock was added to our first power play unit, about nine games, and once he was our PP, which had been predictable and stale for years, went from 23rd to 9th. 

 

EP of course you know what you did ... Green didn't start him on the third line and make him work his way up.   QHs took over the power play as a rookie too, finally relieving Edler of a job he hadn't done well for years.    

 

Keenan was a big personality.   Almost beat the Oiler's in 87, one of the best finals ever.   Kerr was out, otherwise it might have had a different outcome, but Hextall was unreal too.   PHI has a great team, but it was also coached extremely well.    Iron Mike got the reputation honestly, he was all business, and if you didn't earn your minutes, you didn't play.  Then of course he helped make the Rangers a top team in the East.   Folks might not be aware of this, but despite being first in power play and penalty kill, and leading the league again points wise, mid-way in 93-94, Keenan helped orchestrate a dozen or so trades completely changing that team and culture from regular season and younger guys, to a more veteran team with tons of playoff ability.   They mortgaged their future heavily.   

 

As an aside, does anyone re-call a regular season game against the Rangers, and Keenan and Quin started raging at each other?   It was quite the show ... Odjick was standing on the bench and tried to spear Keenan ... the announcers to this day it still gives me chills "Keenan better watch out or Pat might throw him into the rafters"  and "wouldn't it be great if these two teams met in the finals"... didn't even occur to me right away that would mean we'd be in the cup final.    Quin was upset at Keenan putting his goons out against our skilled players multiple times, and they were running Bure and Ronning.   Sound familiar?  Torts vs CAL putting out their goon squad to start a game.  

 

Torts is the closest thing we have to Keenan these days.   Both guys got results, but eventually their methods get tiresome, Torts adapted to millennial and gen z players, Keenan only could get away with it with boomer and gen x players.   Even Hitchcock had to change his methods (another hard ass), he talked about it in the 2000's, now these days you have to be a better communicator, a therapist, a friend even to get results, couldn't get away with how he coached Dallas to a cup and then a final appearance after.   

 

THN used to use quadrant page - with four equal sized boxes.   And then place each NHL coach on it.   Each box has a different name : Disciplinarian, Tactical, Flexible, Players Coach.   Something like that.   And then place a coach something on the page.   Keenan was always as set right at the far side of disciplinarian, and tactical.     In other words a total hard ass that also very good at adjustments in the game.     Quin was a players coach.   Guys totally respected him right away, and wanted Dad to love them back, and were willing to go through walls as a result. 

 

Positive reinforcement has replaced tough love, and has for some time.    Keenan couldn't find work in the NHL, because he couldn't adjust, and his methods became less effective.   Fear can be a powerful motivator ...  but it eventually stops working.    All these NHL coaches are brilliant at some things, it's rare you get the total package ... Bowman was the total package.   He wasn't star struck by that 2002 team that had 11 or so HHOFers on it... how could he be given he coached the 70's Habs.    Had zero issue splitting up the minutes and putting all-star's on a third line. 

[IBatch]

37 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That is exactly what we need to do.  Or Horvat to Detroit for Seider and switch firsts.  With our luck though, we would end up in last place, win the lottery and either NYI or Detroit would end up with Bedard while we draft a 3rd Elias Pettersson...

I actually almost added Seider, but i think Yzerman wouldn't even make that trade for you, that's how highly they feel about Moritz.   Was a gamble that paid off, and somewhat made up for not picking Quin and instead Zadina (that was BPA drafting ... Seider was just as risky as when MTL picked too many vowels who now plays in CAR)... funny how the draft works sometimes.   

 

Horvat of course isn't getting us either Dobson or Seider on his own.   In reality if we did this sort of trade, those teams would counter with either QHs or EP, then they'd trade their firsts.    I sure wouldn't take that gamble.