Popular Post J.I.A.H.N Posted November 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Ok, with the very unbalanced roster, cap restraints, frozen cap space (OEL), and general poor team make up, I just do not see where this team, and it's current parts, ever becomes an elite, top 10 team. (Not long term anyways.) It is with this in mind, I feel a rebuild is in order! No one is safe! Here we go! #1 Trade Pettersson and Hoglander .................for..................... Jenner, Juricek and 2023 1st Columbus gets a #1 center and we get a standin, in Jenner, but Juricek and 2023 1st are the plums #2 Trade Hughes...........................for .......................Nemec and a 2023 1st We get our 2nd top RHD and NJ gets Hughes, this is a no brainer for New Jersey #3 Trade Horvat..............................for.......................Edvinsson and Detroit's 2023-1st Detroit is getting ready to compete. (Horvat would be a sign and trade) Horvat gives Detroit a huge upgrade now. #4 Trade Demko..............................for........................Gustavsson, Lambos and 2023-1st Demko is still thought of as a top 5 goalie with a crap defense in front of him, He is on an incredible contract #5 Trade Kuzmenko at 50%.............for.........................Lappierre, Lars Eller (Expiring Contract) and 2024 1st Kuzmenko is a UFA at the end of the year, is a great TDL pick up for a team full of Russians and OV may be able to convince him to stay for a couple more years. The Caps get $3 million in cap relief to add more. #6 Trade Miller................................ for............................Lafreniere and 2024-1st The Canucks retain 50% on Miller for the 2023 season. Laffrieniere is not working out as well as expected and the Rangers are ready to go for it now. Trade Comments Yes, this leave us barren and at the bottom of the heap. I would expect a bottom 4 finish, if the moves are made early. There certainly isn't much left in terms of talent, but there is not much to destroy either. Garland, Boeser and Myers can be moved next year. Assets Acquired Veterans..............Jenner, Eller, and Gustavsson Prospects.............Nemec, Juricek, Lafreniere, Lambos, Lappierre, and Edvinsson 2023 Picks...........Columbus 1st, New Jersey 2023-1st, Detroit 2023-1st and Minnesota's 2023-1st 2024 picks............New York Rangers 1st, and Washington's 1st Team Tank Lafreniere..............Jenner..............Boeser OEL...................Bear Martin Podkolzin.................Eller.................Garland Stillman.............Schenn Gustovsson Mikheyev..................Lazar...............Joshua Rathbone..........Burroughs Pearson...................Aman...............Studnika Dermott.............Poolman Dries Cap Space After Trades: Approx. $14,100,000 Asset Evaluation: 2023 Moves tore the team down to the bone. Yes, there are still players to move (Jenner, Boeser, Myers, Garland, and Mikheyev) all can garner late first's, 2nd's at the 2024 TDL, which would give us another Approx. $19,000,000 in Cap space. So, what do we do with the $14,100,000 million cap space in 2023? Short term player dumps from other teams, of course! At the TDL or in the summer. Anything in the 1 to 2 year range is fine, as we do not want to move up the standings for minimum 2 to 3 drafts.................. Now, you ask why did we focus on our Defencemen in trades. In short, they take longer to develop and are harder to develop. But, our 2023, 2024, and 2025 1st's will be focused on forwards. 3 of the 4 top 4 2023 picks are Centers, and 6 out of the top 10, so unless we pick the "generational" Russian winger (Michkov), we will be getting a 1st line center with the Canucks 2023-1st round pick. Now taking into consideration we received Lafreniere (LW/C) (1st OA) in trade , and having the chance at a top 4 OA center, and having drafted Lekkerimakki (RW/C), we would have the first line built within a year. (This is not taking into consideration the other 4 1st we acquired in trade for the 2023 draft. Now, there is one last piece, in which I would be focussing on and that is taking the best goalie in the draft in both the next 2 drafts, and then using proceeding drafts to do very much the same thing. I also would not be adverse to trading asset down the road (year 3/4) for a higher ranked goalie prospect if the need be, or a already developed young goalie, but not until we have built our stocks up. PS, I still believe in Silovs, but would like to have a solid goalie stable. Conclusion: Regardless, if all the trades are as big as I suggest, the key is to restart the rebuild and pull their grouping closer together in age. This allows a GM to see where his team is going and how the team is coming together (Look at NJ, Ottawa, Detroit, and LA for examples). This does not exclude trading for veterans down the road, or signing UFA's as budget allows, but there should be no over-reach in budget. In most cases Prospects should be given preference unless they are pricing themselves out of our Cap control. A special note should be made to have size and aggression on the team. Lappierre is that type of pain in the Arse (aka Kesler)....we need more, but a few Wilson, Greenaway, Lucic types, will be a very welcome addition. Offer Go ahead and roast me now! Thanks for reading this far! Edited November 11, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Do these teams even have the cap space to obtain these guys? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 2 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Go ahead and roast me now! Thanks for reading this far! On the contrary, good post that displays a great deal of thought. I would keep Petey, Quinn and Kuzmenko. Everybody else would be on the table. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 I like the idea of trading Kuzmenko to the Rangers or Washington for a first round pick, a b level prospect, and a younger project who needs a fresh start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 hey @J.I.A.H.N I can see CBJ being very happy to land Petey, but I think they would want to keep Jenner. Can also see NYR being interested in Miller, but Laffy might be untouchable as well. I could see Kappo and Chytil being the return for Miller. On the Miller ideas, I don't understand whats possible - can Vancouver retain 1/2 on his expiring year before the extension kicks in? not sure on the rules there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Like the philosophy behind these moves, but our owner will not allow it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 12 minutes ago, Alflives said: Like the philosophy behind these moves, but our owner will not allow it. maybe the family is trying to win while Luigi is still around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogie Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Miller + Hoglander for 2023 1st + Nemec + McLeod Horvat + Rathbone for Edvinsson + 1st 2023 Boeser + Bear for Peeke + Nyquist Garland for Lysell + Foligno 2022-2023 Lineup Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko Foligno - McLeod - Podkolzin Pearson - Aman - Nyquist Studnicka - Lazar - Joshua Hughes - Peeke OEL - Myers Dermott - Stillman 2024 Lineup Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko Lysell - Bedard - Podkolzin Aman - McLeod - Karlsson Studnicka/Joshua - Lazar - Joshua/Lockwood Hughes Peeke Edvinsson - Nemec Dermott - Stillman/Woo Deadline Deals OEL (2.27 Retained) for 1st 2024 (BOS) Myers for 2024 2nd + 2024 3rd Edited November 11, 2022 by Doogie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 3 hours ago, JM_ said: hey @J.I.A.H.N I can see CBJ being very happy to land Petey, but I think they would want to keep Jenner. Can also see NYR being interested in Miller, but Laffy might be untouchable as well. I could see Kappo and Chytil being the return for Miller. On the Miller ideas, I don't understand whats possible - can Vancouver retain 1/2 on his expiring year before the extension kicks in? not sure on the rules there. Thanks Jim Yes, Vancouver can retain on this years contract only, as the next contract has not actually been activated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) So, thanks for not crucifying me guys. Just for fun you know. But the whole point of this excercise is to gain a certain amount of already drafted players, and collect picks in the next 2 drafts that are top heavy......... having the following picks would set us up, having already chosen our defensemen from the last couple of drafts............example 2023 draft.....................we have our 1st line in Lafreniere................??????...............Lekkerimakki ????????................??????................?????????? Podkolzin.................Lappiere..............?????????? 2023 draft Vancouver's 2023 1st (top 4)..........................Best Center available (1st line) Detroit's 2023 1st ( 12 to 16)..........................Forward Columbus's 2023 1st (12 to 16).....................Forward New Jerseys 2023 1st (16 to 24)....................Forward Minnesota's 2023 1st (20 to 24).....................Forward Vancouver's 2023 2nd (33 to 36)....................Best Goalie available (starting Goalie) This is not to say that a Goalie or defenseman does not get picked earlier, just that it illistrates exactly how far you are along in the process. But for shits and giggles, place them into the above roster and the top 3 lines are full. Now take into consideration that in 2024, you have 3 - 1st round picks, which again you take a Center more than likely with your first pick and again pick a great goalie and a Dman. Vancouver's 2024 1st......again top 4 OA.........Center Washington 2024 1st......20 to 24.....................Big Dman NY Ranger's 2024 1st.....24 to 32.....................Goalie This does not count any Cap dump picks or any picks acquired from Garland, Mikheyev, Boeser, Myers or Jenner ( but insert 2nds and 3rd round picks for these guys for kicks) The whole point of the exercise is to show you that a rebuild can bring back HUGE assets and be done over a very short time, if you jump in with both feet! This also does not include at the end of the day, any alterations to your now very young core, which could include signing a big name UFA (when it is time), or trading a future pick for an asset, you really don't have in your stable.............. But the point is you will have options.......................Something we do not have today. Edited November 11, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 15 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Ok, with the very unbalanced roster, cap restraints, frozen cap space (OEL), and general poor team make up, I just do not see where this team, and it's current parts, ever becomes an elite, top 10 team. (Not long term anyways.) It is with this in mind, I feel a rebuild is in order! No one is safe! Here we go! #1 Trade Pettersson and Hoglander .................for..................... Jenner, Juricek and 2023 1st Columbus gets a #1 center and we get a standin, in Jenner, but Juricek and 2023 1st are the plums #2 Trade Hughes...........................for .......................Nemec and a 2023 1st We get our 2nd top RHD and NJ gets Hughes, this is a no brainer for New Jersey #3 Trade Horvat..............................for.......................Edvinsson and Detroit's 2023-1st Detroit is getting ready to compete. (Horvat would be a sign and trade) Horvat gives Detroit a huge upgrade now. #4 Trade Demko..............................for........................Gustavsson, Lambos and 2023-1st Demko is still thought of as a top 5 goalie with a crap defense in front of him, He is on an incredible contract #5 Trade Kuzmenko at 50%.............for.........................Lappierre, Lars Eller (Expiring Contract) and 2024 1st Kuzmenko is a UFA at the end of the year, is a great TDL pick up for a team full of Russians and OV may be able to convince him to stay for a couple more years. The Caps get $3 million in cap relief to add more. #6 Trade Miller................................ for............................Lafreniere and 2024-1st The Canucks retain 50% on Miller for the 2023 season. Laffrieniere is not working out as well as expected and the Rangers are ready to go for it now. Trade Comments Yes, this leave us barren and at the bottom of the heap. I would expect a bottom 4 finish, if the moves are made early. There certainly isn't much left in terms of talent, but there is not much to destroy either. Garland, Boeser and Myers can be moved next year. Assets Acquired Veterans..............Jenner, Eller, and Gustavsson Prospects.............Nemec, Juricek, Lafreniere, Lambos, Lappierre, and Edvinsson 2023 Picks...........Columbus 1st, New Jersey 2023-1st, Detroit 2023-1st and Minnesota's 2023-1st 2024 picks............New York Rangers 1st, and Washington's 1st Team Tank Lafreniere..............Jenner..............Boeser OEL...................Bear Martin Podkolzin.................Eller.................Garland Stillman.............Schenn Gustovsson Mikheyev..................Lazar...............Joshua Rathbone..........Burroughs Pearson...................Aman...............Studnika Dermott.............Poolman Dries Cap Space After Trades: Approx. $14,100,000 Asset Evaluation: 2023 Moves tore the team down to the bone. Yes, there are still players to move (Jenner, Boeser, Myers, Garland, and Mikheyev) all can garner late first's, 2nd's at the 2024 TDL, which would give us another Approx. $19,000,000 in Cap space. So, what do we do with the $14,100,000 million cap space in 2023? Short term player dumps from other teams, of course! At the TDL or in the summer. Anything in the 1 to 2 year range is fine, as we do not want to move up the standings for minimum 2 to 3 drafts.................. Now, you ask why did we focus on our Defencemen in trades. In short, they take longer to develop and are harder to develop. But, our 2023, 2024, and 2025 1st's will be focused on forwards. 3 of the 4 top 4 2023 picks are Centers, and 6 out of the top 10, so unless we pick the "generational" Russian winger (Michkov), we will be getting a 1st line center with the Canucks 2023-1st round pick. Now taking into consideration we received Lafreniere (LW/C) (1st OA) in trade , and having the chance at a top 4 OA center, and having drafted Lekkerimakki (RW/C), we would have the first line built within a year. (This is not taking into consideration the other 4 1st we acquired in trade for the 2023 draft. Now, there is one last piece, in which I would be focussing on and that is taking the best goalie in the draft in both the next 2 drafts, and then using proceeding drafts to do very much the same thing. I also would not be adverse to trading asset down the road (year 3/4) for a higher ranked goalie prospect if the need be, or a already developed young goalie, but not until we have built our stocks up. PS, I still believe in Silovs, but would like to have a solid goalie stable. Conclusion: Regardless, if all the trades are as big as I suggest, the key is to restart the rebuild and pull their grouping closer together in age. This allows a GM to see where his team is going and how the team is coming together (Look at NJ, Ottawa, Detroit, and LA for examples). This does not exclude trading for veterans down the road, or signing UFA's as budget allows, but there should be no over-reach in budget. In most cases Prospects should be given preference unless they are pricing themselves out of our Cap control. A special note should be made to have size and aggression on the team. Lappierre is that type of pain in the Arse (aka Kesler)....we need more, but a few Wilson, Greenaway, Lucic types, will be a very welcome addition. Offer Go ahead and roast me now! Thanks for reading this far! Gave yea nice cold pint for the effort and layout of your proposal. This is an immense overhaul though. And I just don see us trading petey or Hughes. Trading Kuzmenko would have to be with his permission imo or else we will never sign a Russian free agent like him again too. Your final line up is very scary. Our Defence is atrocious. There is a chance Nemec and Lambos both dont amount to much too. I know Nemec is a young blue chip but he's not a sure thing. Lambos I like too and looking like a strong young leader. As much as I like Demko if we aren't going to be able to maximize his contract thats a trade I would really consider. But our goalie situation would be scary now and in the future. We would vault Martins development and probably ruin him. And Gustaavvson is not a number 1. We would be banking on signing a FA goalie when ready to compete or praying Silovs development goes amazing. And that would be scary for me If we did go wild on the proposals and that was our line up: Lafreniere..............Jenner..............Boeser OEL...................Bear Martin Podkolzin.................Eller.................Garland Stillman.............Schenn Gustovsson Mikheyev..................Lazar...............Joshua Rathbone..........Burroughs Pearson...................Aman...............Studnika Dermott.............Poolman Dries I would probably swap some of the lines around: Mikehyev-Jenner-Boeser Lafreniere-Eller-Garland Pearson-Studnika-Podkolzin Joshua-Aman-Lazar But its kind of like a 2nd Line, 3rd Line and 2 4th Lines regardless. And I believe Pearson is as good as gone once he is healthy. I am most nervous for what we do with Miller and Horvat. What JR and Alvin do with them will really show the direction of the team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 3 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: Thanks Jim Yes, Vancouver can retain on this years contract only, as the next contract has not actually been activated. damn that is interesting then. We could do Kappo for Miller 1/2 retained. NYR might have to go with 13 F's but thats an easy cap complaint trade. I don't think we can expect a big haul, but maybe something like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, JM_ said: damn that is interesting then. We could do Kappo for Miller 1/2 retained. NYR might have to go with 13 F's but thats an easy cap complaint trade. I don't think we can expect a big haul, but maybe something like this. We could have had Chytil, Lundquist and the Rag’s 2022 first if we did this back at the 2022 TDL. IMHAO our owner has no stomach for a rebuilding trade. So getting Kakko now would still be of no interest to him. Hard for JR to build us a better tomorrow with Aquilini refusing to take a ste back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Alflives said: We could have had Chytil, Lundquist and the Rag’s 2022 first if we did this back at the 2022 TDL. IMHAO our owner has no stomach for a rebuilding trade. So getting Kakko now would still be of no interest to him. Hard for JR to build us a better tomorrow with Aquilini refusing to take a ste back. who knows, maybe the Aquilini's will surprise us. Or maybe Luigi says fanculo to a rebuild. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) This was posted by @Canuckfanforlife82 . It is exactly why I posted the "Scorched Earth" proposal! Well said Canuckfanforlife82! Posted 7 hours ago (edited) I just don't understand why ownership thinks a retool can happen with the cupboards being so bare on the farm and with the lack of picks. I could understand and back it up if we had a lot more to give up to acquire players but right now it just seems like a dumb idea to everyone that has some knowledge about hockey. I know money is their main goal. It always has been but at some point you just have to say we can't retool. Our prospects and draft picks have to be rebuilt. That's where I think they need to start. I just think they are wasting time doing it this way. If they could prove me wrong that would be great but it's been a lot of years trying to do it this way. I think it's safe to say it won't work. Edited 7 hours ago by Canuckfanforlife82 Edited November 12, 2022 by J.I.A.H.N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV. Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 15 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said: This was posted by @Canuckfanforlife82 . It is exactly why I posted the "Scorched Earth" proposal! Well said Canuckfanforlife82! Posted 7 hours ago (edited) I just don't understand why ownership thinks a retool can happen with the cupboards being so bare on the farm and with the lack of picks. I could understand and back it up if we had a lot more to give up to acquire players but right now it just seems like a dumb idea to everyone that has some knowledge about hockey. I know money is their main goal. It always has been but at some point you just have to say we can't retool. Our prospects and draft picks have to be rebuilt. That's where I think they need to start. I just think they are wasting time doing it this way. If they could prove me wrong that would be great but it's been a lot of years trying to do it this way. I think it's safe to say it won't work. If $ is the main goal, they should realize that the real money comes during the playoffs. If this team continues play as they have, the ticket sales will drop. Imo, they need to make some tough decisions and make a few trades that have decent returns; targeting any combination of high picks, "A" prospects and young NHL players that fit the team needs. I'm talking about Miller, Hughes, Bo (if he can't be signed) and Boeser (wait to see if his game improves). Management need to wait for the optimum time to make a trade. Pears + 1M (1season) retained trade at TDL Meyers + 2M (1season)retained traded in the offseason (depending on the return of the previous trades, as the '23 UFA market is weak for RDs). Poolman buyout in the offseason (or wait to see if he's a permanent fixture on LTIR next season). Miller and Bo (if he can't be signed) should be traded as soon as possible as the team needs a top 5 pick (or better) at the draft. Next season another top 5 pick (or better) at the draft. The following season they slip into the playoffs but get edged out in the 1st round. 2yrs of dismal hockey and 1yr of mediocre hockey, but an exciting team filled with great young talent and a ton of potential. Could Nuck fans get behind a plan (or a variation) like this? Does the management have the wherewithal to undertake such a plan? And then there are the owners...well, maybe the fans can unite and express their demands by not showing up to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Book it do all these trades, win 1st pick the next 2 years. Draft the Vancouver kids. Stanley Cup 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 Refer to this if you want a complete rebuild. The values of course are off, but the premise is accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 For Reference the cap floor is $60.24 million, which is 22 million from the ceiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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