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[RUMOUR] Vancouver and Columbus in trade talks


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6 hours ago, Alflives said:

So with our highest pick in a long time we take a D bust.  Benning overruled his scouts because he saw OJ at one tournament and insisted that was “his guy”.  Tkatchuk was the clear choice with that pick.  BPA.  Big Benning mistake. 

So Bourdon was a bust too then eh? OJ didnt pan out because of a pile of unforeseeable injuries and that makes him a mistake? So Bourdon who died in an unforeseeable motorcycle crash, makes him a bust? 
 

How did BPA work out for us from 2008-2013? All those forward selections. Not a single 1st round dman after Bourdon passed away in that span. Who the f**k is thinking of the future?? Zero defence prospects in the pipeline and we keep selecting forwards.. its just brilliant. BPA has been so favourable from 2005-2013, that we could afford to put organizational needs to the side and who needs to develop defence in house anyway? We can just make trades or sign guys in free agency for their upcoming declining years and just keep slapping a bandaid on the blueline instead of stitching it up by drafting and developing dmen

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7 hours ago, Alflives said:

So with our highest pick in a long time we take a D bust.  Benning overruled his scouts because he saw OJ at one tournament and insisted that was “his guy”.  Tkatchuk was the clear choice with that pick.  BPA.  Big Benning mistake. 

even now I'd rather have juolevi than tkachuk. 

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6 hours ago, R3aL said:

Damn I lost my reply I was typing to you..

 

the top 3 d were juolevi Sergachev and chychrun.

 

all from the OHL.

 

and who won OHL defencmen of the year Sergachev. That does say soemthing.

 

for rankings their rankings weren’t a clear consensus and they changed throughout the year. By the end juolevi got ranking bumps for being on a memorial cup winning team and world jr gold winning team. So he got an extended look and looked pretty good. 
 

but he didn’t have a single trait that really stood out as NHL caliber asides from being a smooth skater.

 

chuchrun and serg both showed traits of franchise top pairing dmen. 
 

juolevi looked like a really safe pick though. Like he looked like he had an nhl regular as a floor but a lower ceiling then the other two. 
 

I was dead set on wanting serg on draft day. But made peace with the puck hoping he wasn’t just a product of his environment.

 

I think his biggest issue was his attitude and commitment to being a pro. Then injuries second. Many kids overcome injuries. I know it’s extra difficult but he wasn’t able to. 
 

when Salo was critical of him and that time didn’t go well in Finland I had really lost a lot of hope and optimism he’d be a player for us 

Skating is HUGE in the NHL and that is a very important trait to have. That and his passing are what stood out. He’s a very smart player, Chychrun and Sergachev are strong as an ox, but ultimately… did Van need another strong dman? Or did we need a puck moving dman? Kinda looked like we had our big strong dman with Tryamkin on the back end. 
 

Also I think you might be reading a little too deep into Salo’s comments. He actually praises OJ and then goes on to say its going to be a huge jump from SM-Liiga to the NHL, which is truthful.

 

 

after all it IS all about development.  Which OJ showed he was indeed developing and improving. There was commitment to improving his game and the trick with conditioning and building strength is health. Which unfortunately wasnt on his side. So how does a guy work on conditioning, when he has to take it slow and rehab for several years?

 

all in all OJ was more of a unfortunate pick, rather than a bad pick. Because had he not been injured several times and undergone multiple surgeries on his knees and his back and then the hip issues he developed from his knee problems, we wouldnt be having this debate. It was health that played a major role in his struggles to become an NHLer, not his on ice play.
 

Plus why is everyone so bloody critical of Benning for a very small amount of his picks not working out? We spent 7 fvxking years between 2006-2013 and only managed to find 1 first round NHLer. Gillis never thought to draft another dman, especially after Bourdon died. Its ridiculous that everyone is expecting home run hits and grand slams every single year at the draft table. There will be busts, there will be guys who will not want to play in that organization, there will be injuries/health issues and there will be busts. OJ was just an unlucky pick. Its in the past now, but I still think there is another chance for OJ to become an NHLer.

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7 hours ago, R3aL said:

A lot of rankings pre draft had Sergachev over Juolevi. I had him over him. And tkachuk is the obvious one especially since they were on the same team. So scouted him a lot. I wasn’t high tkachuk though but I really wanted Sergachev I was unsure about chychrun and thought it woulda been too high for mcavoy. 
 

but like you said I woulda taken PLD and the fins over tkachuk juolevi and Sergachev 

"I really wanted Sergachev" too, but was OK with OJ; I wanted PLD but didn't think we'd get him with our 5th overall.

I'm not any good at scouting etc, I wanted Ritchie over Virtanen that year; there were lots of choices which worked out better.

Still wince when I see Sergachev being exactly what we needed/need now.

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1 hour ago, Goal:thecup said:

"I really wanted Sergachev" too, but was OK with OJ; I wanted PLD but didn't think we'd get him with our 5th overall.

I'm not any good at scouting etc, I wanted Ritchie over Virtanen that year; there were lots of choices which worked out better.

Still wince when I see Sergachev being exactly what we needed/need now.

I wanted Nylander or Ritchie too haha SNYPERS was winning me over with his Ehlers love though 

 

But I was fed pushing for Ritchie when we were up to pick.

 

ya Serg woulda been great for us. I’m not sure if we would have been able to develop him the. Way needed though like Tampa has.

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1 hour ago, Goal:thecup said:

"I really wanted Sergachev" too, but was OK with OJ; I wanted PLD but didn't think we'd get him with our 5th overall.

I'm not any good at scouting etc, I wanted Ritchie over Virtanen that year; there were lots of choices which worked out better.

Still wince when I see Sergachev being exactly what we needed/need now.

Well in all fairness, at the time we thought we might have had that in Tryamkin, big strong crease clearing dman with a heavy shot.  Which is probably why JB felt taking a play making dman to go along with and was a safe bet to take and we needed a puck moving dman. Unfortunately Tryamkin dipped back to Russia and OJ piled up the injuries. How do you think Montreal feels right now, trading Sergachev for Drouin.

 

Jake Bean was selected before Chychrun by Carolina. 
 

Every year teams kick themselves in the a$$ for passing on certain players/needs. BPA is never a guarantee and its a high risk high reward type of pick. Look back at the go look at the Stamkos draft and see how that all panned out for most teams. Bogosian went 3rd overall, Karlsson, Carlson, Pietrangelo and Josi were all available  Pietrangelo was taken right after Bogosian… Erik Karlsson would challenge Stamkos for 1st overall, instead he was taken 15th overall. 


Gudbranson 3rd OA

Erik Johnson 1st OA

RNH 1OA

Yakupov 1OA
18 year old Sam Bennet 4th OA… 

 

It happens every single year

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1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Skating is HUGE in the NHL and that is a very important trait to have. That and his passing are what stood out. He’s a very smart player, Chychrun and Sergachev are strong as an ox, but ultimately… did Van need another strong dman? Or did we need a puck moving dman? Kinda looked like we had our big strong dman with Tryamkin on the back end. 
 

Also I think you might be reading a little too deep into Salo’s comments. He actually praises OJ and then goes on to say its going to be a huge jump from SM-Liiga to the NHL, which is truthful.

 

 

after all it IS all about development.  Which OJ showed he was indeed developing and improving. There was commitment to improving his game and the trick with conditioning and building strength is health. Which unfortunately wasnt on his side. So how does a guy work on conditioning, when he has to take it slow and rehab for several years?

 

all in all OJ was more of a unfortunate pick, rather than a bad pick. Because had he not been injured several times and undergone multiple surgeries on his knees and his back and then the hip issues he developed from his knee problems, we wouldnt be having this debate. It was health that played a major role in his struggles to become an NHLer, not his on ice play.
 

Plus why is everyone so bloody critical of Benning for a very small amount of his picks not working out? We spent 7 fvxking years between 2006-2013 and only managed to find 1 first round NHLer. Gillis never thought to draft another dman, especially after Bourdon died. Its ridiculous that everyone is expecting home run hits and grand slams every single year at the draft table. There will be busts, there will be guys who will not want to play in that organization, there will be injuries/health issues and there will be busts. OJ was just an unlucky pick. Its in the past now, but I still think there is another chance for OJ to become an NHLer.

Maybe my memory is failing me here but I recall Salo not being happy with OJ for quite a stretch. I know by the end he share that with Dhaliwal though.

 

true I’m sure the injuries were extremely tough but again tons of guys have overcome lengthy brutal injuries early in career and still found away to stay in shape or improve in other ways and become nhl stars or regulars.

 

maybe his injuries were way worse then I’m acknowledging though. 
 

I don’t think OJ was a bad pick btw I’m just saying he wasn’t who I wanted. 
 

and I agree outcome was unfortunate. It’s quite shocking he’s not even a 5-7 dman in the league at this point.

 

im not critical of bennings  drafting only critical of how many picks they traded away. 
 

there might be OJ looked okay in the bubble minny series. I just don’t understand how he didn’t follow that up with a big off-season and push to make camp after. He wasn’t hurt? And he came to camp not in great shape and looked pretty bad unless I’m mixing up camps here. My memory is not the same since Covid lmao

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9 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Actually OJ and Chychrun were consistently higher ranked than Serg. Sergachev ranged from 6th to 17th, Chychrun ranged from 4th to 17th and OJ ranged from 5th to 11th. But OJ was consistently higher than every other dman. I feel like had OJ not been hampered by injuries, there wouldnt be such a devestating feeling of loss from fans. The thing is there are ZERO guarantees in the draft, you can draft 1st OA and completely ruin them and another franchise can draft beyond 20th and slowly develop that player in to the best player of that draft class.


Maybe I’m getting my info from the wrong sources, but heres my link for rankings as they approached the 2016 draft.

 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/

 

 

Its not that OJ was a bad pick/off the board selection. Its that injuries are what derailed “what could have been”. 

you look back at every draft, “BPA” never goes in order. Guys flourish and guys flounder. OJ was neither, health was just never on his side right after being drafted, we desperately needed a dman and took the guy who most people had picked to go top 10, moreso than Sergachev and Chychrun

Ya but a couple more pieces outsider rankings / media aren’t the same as insiders public rankings. And a lot of people were really liking Sergachev.

 

https://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2016/05/31/13454265/One - ISS FINAL Top 30 060116.pdf

 

here’s one for you.

 

but for sure OJ extended runs and winning on the international stage and the memorial cup run inflated his rankings at the end of the season without a doubt.

 

I can’t remember when OJ first got hurt. But I’m pretty sure his D+1 year he wasn’t affected by injury was he? And he didn’t progress at all. That was a little bit of a red flag for me for him too. 
 

but ya not saying he was an off the board pick. Just wasn’t my guy. And it clearly didn’t turn out unfortunately. 

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10 hours ago, R3aL said:

I was dead set on wanting serg on draft day. But made peace with the puck hoping he wasn’t just a product of his environment. 

Me too, the idea of a large offensive defenseman who could play both sides just seemed too tantalizing to pass up. But I was also okay settling for Juolevi as it seemed like a safe bet to be a good Hamuis replacement. 

 

Also SNYPERS had me sold on Ehlers as well. His enthusiasm for Ehlers was pretty infectious and it looks like he had it right.

 

Edit: since this thread is about Columbus though, it really hurts that we took Jensen instead of his teammate Boone Jenner. I remember a lot of posters on this board saying we took the wrong Oshawa General immediately after the pick. 

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6 minutes ago, R3aL said:

Maybe my memory is failing me here but I recall Salo not being happy with OJ for quite a stretch. I know by the end he share that with Dhaliwal though.

 

true I’m sure the injuries were extremely tough but again tons of guys have overcome lengthy brutal injuries early in career and still found away to stay in shape or improve in other ways and become nhl stars or regulars.

 

maybe his injuries were way worse then I’m acknowledging though. 
 

I don’t think OJ was a bad pick btw I’m just saying he wasn’t who I wanted. 
 

and I agree outcome was unfortunate. It’s quite shocking he’s not even a 5-7 dman in the league at this point.

 

im not critical of bennings  drafting only critical of how many picks they traded away. 
 

there might be OJ looked okay in the bubble minny series. I just don’t understand how he didn’t follow that up with a big off-season and push to make camp after. He wasn’t hurt? And he came to camp not in great shape and looked pretty bad unless I’m mixing up camps here. My memory is not the same since Covid lmao

You wonder if COVID had any long term effects on OJ too though? I mean look what has happened to Sutter’s career. Perhaps OJ isnt able to recover quite as quick and the bag skates were overkill for him? I mean sh!t it had Garland puking and other guys out of the picture frame hurled over and ready to drop. Personally I do not agree with bag skates to that extent, its only asking for injury. Its fvcking brain dead dumb as fvck to bag skate players that hard. 

 

I know you werent being critical of JBs drafting, I was just speaking in general out loud. This fan base can be so frustrating and has been spoiled for a very long time going from one era to the next with very little stalling inbetween and now that our poor drafting has finally caught up to us from 2005-2013 we are now getting to experience what rebuilding is like and our rebuild has been nowhere near as painful as the Leafs, Florida, Buffalo, Arizona, Carolina, New Jersey Devils the past 11 years, Edmonton, Chicago from ‘97-08, Columbus from ‘00-16

 

Think of how many blown 1st round picks Edmonton has gone through, not just 1st rounders but 1st overalls. 
 

Landeskog, Scheifele, Huberdeau > RNH

Anyone>Yakupov

 

They are only a decent team because they landed a generational player, same with Toronto. You take Matthews and McDavid away and insert a bust of a player or anyone a tier below them and they are a basement team. They are held together by 2 drafts and they have yet to really find a legit goalie, barely anything worth mentioning on the blueline and after McDavid+Draisaitl, Matthews+Marner, their drafting has been pretty bad. Like how do you fvck up drafting Matthews or McDavid? You cant.  We have never been fortunate enough to draft top 3, which tend to be elite players. From 5th and beyond, we’ve snagged some of the best players in those drafts. I’d say from our chances of rebuilding outside the top 5 being very difficult, we’ve done a spectacular job overall considering what the rest of the league has done the last while. NJD has had 2 1sts a 2nd and 2 4ths  overall and they’ve been drafting top 10 7 of the last 11 drafts. They are now finally becoming a power house since their first top 5 pick 11 years ago.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, tas said:

even now I'd rather have juolevi than tkachuk. 

I actually agree.... watching a bit of the Panthers-Oilers last night..... that mouth guard chewing dirt bag was actually making me want the Oilers to win and that's saying something for me to want the Oilers to beat anyone else in this league..

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1 hour ago, R3aL said:

Ya but a couple more pieces outsider rankings / media aren’t the same as insiders public rankings. And a lot of people were really liking Sergachev.

 

https://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2016/05/31/13454265/One - ISS FINAL Top 30 060116.pdf

 

here’s one for you.

 

but for sure OJ extended runs and winning on the international stage and the memorial cup run inflated his rankings at the end of the season without a doubt.

 

I can’t remember when OJ first got hurt. But I’m pretty sure his D+1 year he wasn’t affected by injury was he? And he didn’t progress at all. That was a little bit of a red flag for me for him too. 
 

but ya not saying he was an off the board pick. Just wasn’t my guy. And it clearly didn’t turn out unfortunately. 

Yea that link is included in the page that I posted it. It has everyones draft rankings 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/ 


I believe his back was injured in 2017 training camp which lines up for his 2018 off-season microdiscectomy. So its quite likely he was okay for his D+1 season, however he did miss 10+ games in both OHL seasons, not exactly sure what was the result of that? Its quite possible he was battling back pain for quite some time and the inflammation over time became serious enough that he had a bulging disc that required corrective surgery. 
 

As much as Sergachev and Chychrun’s size and strength was very appealing, we lacked a puck moving dman big time. We had Tryamkin at the time as our big strong shut down dman, which is why I feel JB specifically went to watch OJ to see OJ in WJC. Chychrun got cut and Sergachev didnt go to WJC in 2016

 

As for Sergachev’s D+1 year on the world stage he didnt appear to show up to perform in 2017

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/mckenzie-sergachev-hasn-t-had-an-impact-at-the-world-juniors-1.640946

 

 

OJ may have plateau’d for a brief time, but his following season he took steps ahead and he had put up respectable numbers in the Finnish Elite League, carried the team as mentioned by Salo when their top guy went down. Ontop of that he also did well in the AHL and is continuing to do so and may get another crack at an NHL job

 

They were all so closely ranked together, but its the skill sets the offered that set them a part in terms of organizational needs. Which ultimately led to the OJ pick.

 

 

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2 hours ago, R3aL said:

true I’m sure the injuries were extremely tough but again tons of guys have overcome lengthy brutal injuries early in career and still found away to stay in shape or improve in other ways and become nhl stars or regulars.

 

maybe his injuries were way worse then I’m acknowledging though. 
 

The difference is the type of injury players sustain and the path to healing or overcoming that injury that make it either possible to return soon or is a big set back.

 

OJ started with back problems, which will have a wearing effect on other parts of your body. In the way that you move/favour the pain/stiffness. Which can lead to other issues. Much like OJ’s knee issues that led to his hip problems. These are by far the most important and impactful parts of your body in hockey. Knees, hips and back greatly reduces mobility, dexterity and stamina. For any human being that is going to have a serious effect on your daily living, think of how much that would effect a professional athlete who is competing at the highest level.

 

The back may not have been a major issue, because it took minor corrective surgery, but his knees were. Which stemmed from a hit in the AHL and it took 2 surgeries on the 1 knee to correct that problem and then he had another knee injury which all led to him having hip problems.

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5 hours ago, tas said:

even now I'd rather have juolevi than tkachuk. 

Agreed.  That turtle has no place on any respectable team and is a locker room cancer with his refusal to play like a man.  I'm grateful that we don't have that gutless coward disgracing our franchise every time he steps onto the ice.

 

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17 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Agreed.  That turtle has no place on any respectable team and is a locker room cancer with his refusal to play like a man.  I'm grateful that we don't have that gutless coward disgracing our franchise every time he steps onto the ice.

 

Not me I’d take MT 100% of the time because I prefer winning and I like skilled players that live up to there draft position. Oj was a terrible pick a total waste, probably the worst top ten pick in franchise history. 
MT might be all those things but you forgot one TRADE VALUE. 
tough to build a team when your top picks have no value. JV OJ zero value MT got Calgary a massive haul. But yeah good thing we went for nothing.  
 

People on here seem to think a crappy waste of draft picks is better than a highly skilled top tier player with a crap attitude that can be traded. I hated the OJ pick I still do. 



 

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11 minutes ago, combover said:

Not me I’d take MT 100% of the time because I prefer winning and I like skilled players that live up to there draft position. Oj was a terrible pick a total waste, probably the worst top ten pick in franchise history. 
MT might be all those things but you forgot one TRADE VALUE. 
tough to build a team when your top picks have no value. JV OJ zero value MT got Calgary a massive haul. But yeah good thing we went for nothing.  
 

People on here seem to think a crappy waste of draft picks is better than a highly skilled top tier player with a crap attitude that can be traded. I hated the OJ pick I still do. 



 

Calgary fans still had to see that worthless piece of $#@& in their jersey.  Just because their fans are inbred vermin does not mean that Tkachuk would have been tolerated here.  You don't want scum the turtle anywhere near young players.

 

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2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Calgary fans still had to see that worthless piece of $#@& in their jersey.  Just because their fans are inbred vermin does not mean that Tkachuk would have been tolerated here.  You don't want scum the turtle anywhere near young players.

 

He wasn’t worthless thou OJ was. 
Imagine if they have selected oj they wouldn’t even have a team Right now. Jb incompetence helped build the flames more than he built  the Canucks lilololol. 
 

remind me what did we get for OJ and what did they get for MT .

 

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Just now, combover said:

He wasn’t worthless thou OJ was. 
Imagine if they have selected oj they wouldn’t even have a team Right now. Jb incompetence helped build the flames more than he built  the Canucks lilololol. 
 

remind me what did we get for OJ and what did they get for MT .

 

They also had to deal with the turtle in their locker room ensuring they couldn't succeed due to his outright refusal to cut out the BS and act like a professional.  Tkachuk's misconduct helped create a culture where playing like a gutless coward was acceptable.  He had negative value and the Flames are lucky a team was stupid enough to allow that piece of garbage into their room.

 

OJ may not have value, but Tkachuk has negative value.

 

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1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Yea that link is included in the page that I posted it. It has everyones draft rankings 

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2016-draft/nhl-draft-rankings/ 


I believe his back was injured in 2017 training camp which lines up for his 2018 off-season microdiscectomy. So its quite likely he was okay for his D+1 season, however he did miss 10+ games in both OHL seasons, not exactly sure what was the result of that? Its quite possible he was battling back pain for quite some time and the inflammation over time became serious enough that he had a bulging disc that required corrective surgery. 
 

As much as Sergachev and Chychrun’s size and strength was very appealing, we lacked a puck moving dman big time. We had Tryamkin at the time as our big strong shut down dman, which is why I feel JB specifically went to watch OJ to see OJ in WJC. Chychrun got cut and Sergachev didnt go to WJC in 2016

 

As for Sergachev’s D+1 year on the world stage he didnt appear to show up to perform in 2017

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/mckenzie-sergachev-hasn-t-had-an-impact-at-the-world-juniors-1.640946

 

 

OJ may have plateau’d for a brief time, but his following season he took steps ahead and he had put up respectable numbers in the Finnish Elite League, carried the team as mentioned by Salo when their top guy went down. Ontop of that he also did well in the AHL and is continuing to do so and may get another crack at an NHL job

 

They were all so closely ranked together, but its the skill sets the offered that set them a part in terms of organizational needs. Which ultimately led to the OJ pick.

 

 

On your link there are quite a few that have Serg ahead of him? The three of them were very close in outsider rankings.

 

Yea Russias World Jr team in general was having a weird time if I am not mistaken?

 

I am not arguing with you that OJ was a wasted pick or the logic was flawed in taking him. I mad complete peace with the pick when we took him.

 

It was just my personal preference to take Serg at the time of the draft and still today. I just liked him more as prospect.

 

And it unfortunately didn't turn out. 

 

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2 minutes ago, R3aL said:

On your link there are quite a few that have Serg ahead of him? The three of them were very close in outsider rankings.

 

Yea Russias World Jr team in general was having a weird time if I am not mistaken?

 

I am not arguing with you that OJ was a wasted pick or the logic was flawed in taking him. I mad complete peace with the pick when we took him.

 

It was just my personal preference to take Serg at the time of the draft and still today. I just liked him more as prospect.

 

And it unfortunately didn't turn out. 

 

Yea but OJ ranks higher than every dman the majority of the time.

 

OJs avg rank was 8th overall

Sergachevs was 9th overall

Chychrun was 10th overall and

McAvoy was 16th overall

 

Yea I just want to be clear, I’m not arguing against your preference, I’m merely just highlighting the points that led to OJ’s selection at 5th overall.

 

I’d be p1ssed if they took a risk and it didnt pan out. But they went with a safe, logical and fair choice. A highly ranked, smooth skating puck moving dman. Didnt work out and JB wasted no time going back to find that organizational need by selecting QH, Dobson, Boqvist and Bouchard were all hovering around there too.

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