[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Colorado Avalanche | Nov. 23, 2022

[Bad_BOI_pete]

27 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

OK... let's just strictly look at individual production, Dries vs Hoglander.... who's helping us more now so far this season?? 

 

I don't mean Dries is going to be our long term solution at 3C but I would much rather have him help the team on 3rd or 4th line than have Hoglander not doing anything

how do you want to measure that production?

 

Points?

Corsi?

Xgf?

Xga?

+/-?

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, vancan2233 said:

I forgot , people on here think any trade they think of can be done. It so easy to trade with 32 other NHL teams. 

[chon derry]

2 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Yeah, it’s not so bad overall if you look at those two trades taken together as a single transaction:

 

Dickinson + 2nd + 5th for Bear (400K AAV retained) + Stillman + Pederson

 

There’s also an element of “having to lose to win.” Sometimes you need to be willing to lose a trade or two as part of the overall transactional process designed to improve a roster. This is especially true when a team is under cap pressure and needs to dump salary. 

Carolina had similar cap problems with keeping chatfield , with all the moving parts leading up to the final acquisition of bear. Kudos to brind’amour for facilitating bears desire to land were he wanted, him knowing van would be a less hostile/ toxic environment. 

[chon derry]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

[vancan2233]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

 

Do I win for the better image?

[Bad_BOI_pete]

35 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who really understands the Stillman trade?

I can tell you it was almost with 100% certainty that it was done to maximize the ASCL and also in the hopes of dermott returning before the 14 game mark. if they didn't trade dickinson both poolman and dickinson would have been waived plus dermott would have to been placed on LTIR.

 

The fact that we got a perfect ascl calculation paints a big picture for me.

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

 

Do I win for the better image?

Only in your mind. 

[mordekai]

11 minutes ago, chon derry said:

Carolina had similar cap problems with keeping chatfield , with all the moving parts leading up to the final acquisition of bear. Kudos to brind’amour for facilitating bears desire to land were he wanted, him knowing van would be a less hostile/ toxic environment. 

Are you being sarcastic or just talking about the team because you know our media is pretty toxic. Some even wanted us to be mad 

[chon derry]

3 minutes ago, mordekai said:

Are you being sarcastic or just talking about the team because you know our media is pretty toxic. Some even wanted us to be mad 

Edmonton 

[vancan2233]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Only in your mind. 

Which is in a much better state then yours 

For real how old are you? I mean I feel like he may be a know it all teenager.  Any how this is my last immature post for both or sides. Just wasteing memory for this site. Peace.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

Which is in a much better state then yours 

For real how old are you? I mean I feel like he may be a know it all teenager.  Any how this is my last immature post for both or sides. Just wasteing memory for this site. Peace.

[R3aL]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

People need to remember that Stillman is still young and developing.  I'm sure they're looking ahead to what he could be more than what he is and that means he needs to play 

 

I know one thing, the Bear deal is better than most of us expected.

I’ve been pretty pro the bear transaction since start and I understand that about stillman but at the same time we’ve got a guy we drafted and developed who’s young and at age he needs to play games and he’s Sitting. And then we have a guy who’s actually playing better than some vets and working his ass off and getting sat.

 

it’s just hard for me to get behind 

[R3aL]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

That was a terrible call......poor officiating on the night, in general 

Something we are use too 

 

but we still went 0-5 On the pp

 

felt bad for garland cause he needed that goal inthink but oh well crap happens and we still found a way to win against a better team so overall prettt cool 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

42 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

 He brings offense to the bottom 6, and plays well away from the puck. He may not be a bruiser, but he back checks and is in position defensively. I too at first was upset about him in the line-up. I then said to myself pay attention to what he does, and guess what he is helping the team. Watch the kid without blinders on, because you have it in the back of your mind he only an  Ahler. He does good things on the ice.  

I am not going to get in a 3 way argument.

 

My intentions were never to compare hoglander vs dries. in fact i purposely left hoglander out. and said i would much rather studnicka or pearson over dries.

 

Hoggy is not the same since BB took over.

 

 

 

[RakuRaku]

30 minutes ago, Bad_BOI_pete said:

how do you want to measure that production?

 

Points?

Corsi?

Xgf?

Xga?

+/-?

 

 

Yes all the above please... What ya got?

[Canucks Curse]

2 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

dude is playing lie a legit top 4 Right shot D, imagine if demko, OEL and Myers were playing like they did last season, we would be in a playoff spot, throwing roses at Bruce, jumping up and down and sharing candy

[jyu]

45 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

 He brings offense to the bottom 6, and plays well away from the puck. He may not be a bruiser, but he back checks and is in position defensively. I too at first was upset about him in the line-up. I then said to myself pay attention to what he does, and guess what he is helping the team. Watch the kid without blinders on, because you have it in the back of your mind he only an  Ahler. He does good things on the ice.  

Dries did score some key goals and he generally plays hard, which makes him a likable player. 

 

But his line is a defensive liability. I notice the line of Garland/Hoglander/Podkolzin-Dries-Boeser being in our own zone more often than not and having difficulties defending the point, the front of the net, and winning the board battles.

 

Dries has GA/60 of 6.17 while the expected GA/60 is 2.96. When the actual GA/60 is that much worse than xGA/60, it's usually a sign of weak defensive player who is prone to letting in goals that shouldn't go in (i.e., shots from the point or perimeters).

 

Guess who has the worst GA/60 on the team?

 

Brock Boeser with 6.25. Brock's xGA/60 is 4.11, which is a sign that he is a very poor defensive player since high xGA/60 tells you that you give up many good scoring opportunities. Having GA/60 > xGA/60 means the opponents are converting those chances that they are expected to convert and also on those chances that they normally shouldn't convert. 

 

I don't think it's a good idea to play Dries and Boeser together; but if Boeser must be in the line up then we need stronger defensive player to mask away his deficiencies. Dries is not it unfortunately.

 

Of course no stat is perfect and there is goaltending effect and teammate effect on the actual GA/60. 

 

But look at Petey's numbers in comparison. He is the only elite two way center that we have. Petey's GF/60 > xGF/60 and his GA/60 < xGA/60.  Meaning that he converts more often relative to what's given up by the opponents and allows less than what is expected. Most importantly, his GF/60 > GA/60 by quite a margin. So if a player is truly good at both ends of the ice, it will show up in the numbers regardless of goaltending and teammate effects.

 

I think Dries is OK as a temp fill-in but we need someone better that will help us in terms of preventing goals against. I think it's time to give Lazar another shot at playing center and insert Podz into the lineup on the 4th line.

 

Source: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20222023&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=y&team=VAN&pos=C&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

 

 

[Harold Drunken]

20 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

Which is in a much better state then yours 

For real how old are you? I mean I feel like he may be a know it all teenager.  Any how this is my last immature post for both or sides. Just wasteing memory for this site. Peace.

[Harold Drunken]

1 hour ago, chon derry said:

Your last paragraph Is the second worst strawman argument , the first being Lemieux would have out paced Gretzky had he remained healthy. But that can’t be argued by virtue of the fact he NEVER remained healthy whereas gretzky DID. Both examples moot points  because in both examples neither one actually happened. Try harder. 

I think we're going for a CDC record of how many times, from different angles someone can be proven wrong lol. @wai_lai416might want to move on to the next topic buddy, you're argument has more leaks than a blind plumber.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Harold Drunken