[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Colorado Avalanche | Nov. 23, 2022

[VanCan2023]

6 hours ago, Bad_BOI_pete said:

hoglander has not played great since BB took over and almost immediately their minutes were dropped from about 15 a game to about 10-11. it seems hoglander is in the doghouse.

 

another fact is that even though hoglander has been in the doghouse the entirety of the time BB has been here. Dries still has played less games and averages less minutes when he plays too.

 

Maybe Dries takes over from hoglander, but im guessing BB is just sitting him in the corner to think about what he has done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hogs got a bit of top line munuets earlier with injuries. However once he made a few bad plays that all growing young players do, he got thrown to the 4th, or wearing a suit watching in the players box. Basically it's here's your chance on the top 6 to prove yourself for a game, if you don't, your back to square one. How can a young player learn and grow with either all the pressure on the top 2, or little to no playing time?  I'm no player and development expert, but something tells me that is exactly what not to do. 

[Locke Lamora]

29 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Thinking they have to trade Miller.  All of those years invested in developing Bo Horvat, drafted as a Canuck and given the C from Henrik.  He might cost $9 in his next contract, but if he's producing like this and he's just entering his prime? Not to mention all of the crappy wingers he's had over the years, and never complained. Perseverance. 

 

On the other hand, trading him now would bring back a big return. Such a tough decision really.  Bo or JT.  I'm leaning towards Bo.

 

 

I agree with this. Initially I thought there was a snow balls’ chance in hell we’d be able to trade Miller and that contract. But after that wretched start - and since putting him on Bo’s wing - he’s been better and the points are coming for him now. Maybe you can find a taker. But after not being able to drum up adequate return last Summer….I still have doubts about sleepy Jim and his little helper Allvin.

[lmm]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

I like the “3 points for a regulation win” idea. 2 for an overtime / shootout win and 1 for the OT loser point… but it make reading standings look even uglier.

I have always thought that the better answer would have been

3 points for a win

1 point for a tie

 

you may or may not remember, before the OT started that the NHL was trying to stop teams, (Montreal, Buffalo, Chicago) from "Locking down" to protect the tie with 10 minutes to go in the third.

At the time I think Chicago was winning their division with 20 ties a year, while Montreal and Buffalo games would have 1 shot each way in the final 10 minutes of the game.

Then came overtime

4-4 overtime

3-3 overtime 

shootouts

and loser points

the irony is that when the Canucks are in a tie situation John says to John, "Both teams are going to lock down to ensure they each take home a point

 

So, in effect, all the rule changes are moot and the original problem is now considered responsible hockey

 

they used to say that "a tie was like kissing your sister"

now they say,  "Each team will put a point in their hip pocket and try for the "'extra point"' (I find it funny that John and John need to say this every game as if it is still 2013 )

They used to say "3 points for a win would ruin the historical points records"

but we now have .500 hockey that is not really .500 hockey,

so what is the gain or the rational ?

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, vancan2233 said:

What a steal of a trade pick if Robertson can produce like this for the next few years. 

Amazing what 2nd round picks sometimes turn into if you actually hold on to them and use them. 

[VanCan2023]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Amazing what 2nd round picks sometimes turn into if you actually hold on to them and use them. 

What is this second round pick you speak of??? 

[Qwags]

4 hours ago, -AJ- said:

It's honestly a bit tragic that we're in virtually the exact same position we were last year. Most people feel like our team can be a very good team, but we're underperforming. Even if we do go on fire again, we've set ourselves so far back that we need to be one of the top 5 teams from here until the end of the season just to ensure that we make the playoffs. It's crazy how far back a rough start can set you.

We've seen this song and dance every year the past 5 years. At what point does management realize that they simply have to reset?

[lmm]

1 hour ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Maybe, they get in and become the Cinderella team in the playoffs and afterwards, make another appearance a decade (or two) later (82, 94, 11 & ?).  

they went 12 years 

12 years 

17 years

if we did a proper rebuild starting today,

we might just get there in 2028

17 years

so all that farting around ol Jimmer did "short circuiting the rebuild was actually "KEEPING THE STARS ALIGNED"

Remember the hyperbaric chamber and sleep doctors?

This is good old fashioned Numerology

 

Maybe they just need to hire a good astrologist  https://sallybrompton.com/ and wait until 2028

 

 

and people thought the ol Hockey Gaud was flakey

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, VanCan2023 said:

What is this second round pick you speak of??? 

The ones we’ve been trading away for the last decade.  The cost of Vey, Baer, Gudbranson, Sutter, OEL, and this year to dumperoo Dickinson.  And likely I’ve missed some.  

[lmm]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The ones we’ve been trading away for the last decade.  The cost of Vey, Baer, Gudbranson, Sutter, OEL, and this year to dumperoo Dickinson.  And likely I’ve missed some.  

I'M SURE YOU HAVE MISSED A FEW AS WELL

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html

 

the thing is, this team doesn't do much better when we keep our 2nds

but there sure is a lot of holes in that^ list

[ShawnAntoski]

3 minutes ago, lmm said:

they went 12 years 

12 years 

17 years

if we did a proper rebuild starting today,

we might just get there in 2028

17 years

so all that farting around ol Jimmer did "short circuiting the rebuild was actually "KEEPING THE STARS ALIGNED"

Remember the hyperbaric chamber and sleep doctors?

This is good old fashioned Numerology

 

Maybe they just need to hire a good astrologist  https://sallybrompton.com/ and wait until 2028

 

 

and people thought the ol Hockey Gaud was flakey

One & done rosters, for the most part; and your numbers are in par with Canucks history.  So the time line MIGHT fit or not ?  Who knows but 3 Stanley Cup appearance in 50+ years, with no cup..

[lmm]

1 minute ago, ShawnAntoski said:

One & done rosters, for the most part; and your numbers are in par with Canucks history.  So the time line MIGHT fit or not ?  Who knows but 3 Stanley Cup appearance in 50+ years, with no cup..

yup

you know I wa alright with trading Gaudette

but I think they should have signed his wife and her chrystals to a $6,X6 contract

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, lmm said:

I'M SURE YOU HAVE MISSED A FEW AS WELL

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html

 

the thing is, this team doesn't do much better when we keep our 2nds

but there sure is a lot of holes in that^ list

Yup.  We should have been adding top 100 picks and not trading them away in hopes of “winning” now.  

[Wayne Jetski]

-

Edited November 25, 2022 by Wayne Jetski

[lmm]

21 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Amazing what 2nd round picks sometimes turn into if you actually hold on to them and use them. 

you mean like Keith, Subban and Weber?

or Woo, Lind and Gadjovich?

[ShawnAntoski]

9 minutes ago, lmm said:

I'M SURE YOU HAVE MISSED A FEW AS WELL

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008756.html

 

the thing is, this team doesn't do much better when we keep our 2nds

but there sure is a lot of holes in that^ list

Probably, matter who is doing the pick and what happens when they get, in the system.  Ofcourse, the percentages are what they are but a GM that constantly believes or (contsantly) undervalues, draft picks is not a good GM - imo cause a team goes through various compete levels and a decent GM should know when to go all in or when to build up through the draft.  So far, all of Aquamans' GM's where working with a short term approach vs what Yzerman got with Illich, when they decided to move on from Holland.  After 3yrs of patiently rebuilding, Yzerman seems ready to turn the page.

Edited November 25, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[ShawnAntoski]

6 minutes ago, lmm said:

yup

you know I wa alright with trading Gaudette

but I think they should have signed his wife and her chrystals to a $6,X6 contract

Sure and why not. 

[stawns]

32 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Amazing what 2nd round picks sometimes turn into if you actually hold on to them and use them. 

they can turn into great things if you use them in trades as well.  In fact, I'd bet they turn out better as an asset more than they do as an actual pick

[Gawdzukes]

22 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Wouldn't surprise me to see this management group sign BoHo to a 7 year deal , then have him, Petey and Miller playing in front of 9 AHL guys and the EXACT same defence as we have right now for the foreseeable future. 

 

JR should never have hinted that 'big changes' were coming if he had neither the intentions or ability to enact them. 

My biggest fear. These guys seem to have trouble with simple math. I'm sure they'll just trade away our 23 and 24 firsts to get themselves cap compliant.

[Coconuts]

33 minutes ago, lmm said:

you mean like Keith, Subban and Weber?

or Woo, Lind and Gadjovich?

Sometimes you get column A, sometimes you get column B. But you've gotta have them to be able to roll the dice. Some of the blame can also be allocated to our in-house development. Or to Benning not being the super scout we thought he was while running the Canucks. 

 

24 minutes ago, stawns said:

they can turn into great things if you use them in trades as well.  In fact, I'd bet they turn out better as an asset more than they do as an actual pick

They can, but for this team they usually don't. Not in recent memory anyway. We moved a 2nd to dump Dickinson, we also moved one in the OEL trade (that one's a matter of opinion), gave one up to rent Toffoli (got some playoff experience out of that at least), gave one up alongside Jared McCann+ in the Gudbranson deal, gave up another when trading Bonino for Sutter, traded one for Baertschi, gave up another for Vey, gave up another for Roy baby too. And that's just the last ten years. 

 

Not exactly a bunch of wins. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[Crabcakes]

18 hours ago, bad alice french said:

So you don’t agree with the Miller signing but you would support signing Horvat?

Think I'm contradicting myself?  I thought somebody might.  They're very different players imo.

 

Horvat is a natural centre, team captain, solid 2 way player, superior on the dot and wow is he ever coming into his own as a dominant force.  I think it would be a big mistake to let him go.

 

Miller is definitely not the same quality and needs a defensively responsible player to hold his hand.  He has only been his best when playing with Petey or Horvat and cannot carry a line on his own.  He is very good when he wants to be but particularly on the defensive side he is inconsistent and he throws up far too many blind passes.  I just hope that it's not too late to move on from Miller because Horvat is the asset they should be keeping. 

 

I think that management needs to look very closely at some top of the roster players and some hard decisions need to be made.  Miller is top of the list for me.  Others I would finger would be Boeser and Garland.  I'm not thrilled with OEL or Myers either but I think they need to wait a year to act on them (if they can do anything with OEL).  Horvat needs to be signed as I say but I also think that they need to sign Kuzmenko for next season as well.  Kuz will come in around the same price as Mikheyev (4.75) and Horvat around $8M imo.  Long term we'll see Petey and Hughes north of $9M.