HorvatToBaertschi Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said: A similar finish to last year: NHL Purgatory or Playoff fodder = no Stanley Cups. Same MO, whilst some of the rebuilding clubs, that did it right will be SERIOUSLY CONTENDING FOR A CUP. I would hope my comment will be wrong but if you had been paying attention - winning a regular season game, is very different than winning a playoff series. I get it and let's enjoy the rise to NHL Purgatory... This group knows the difference and what it takes to go the distance in the playoffs against good teams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, Crabcakes said: Think I'm contradicting myself? I thought somebody might. They're very different players imo. Horvat is a natural centre, team captain, solid 2 way player, superior on the dot and wow is he ever coming into his own as a dominant force. I think it would be a big mistake to let him go. Miller is definitely not the same quality and needs a defensively responsible player to hold his hand. He has only been his best when playing with Petey or Horvat and cannot carry a line on his own. He is very good when he wants to be but particularly on the defensive side he is inconsistent and he throws up far too many blind passes. I just hope that it's not too late to move on from Miller because Horvat is the asset they should be keeping. I think that management needs to look very closely at some top of the roster players and some hard decisions need to be made. Miller is top of the list for me. Others I would finger would be Boeser and Garland. I'm not thrilled with OEL or Myers either but I think they need to wait a year to act on them (if they can do anything with OEL). Horvat needs to be signed as I say but I also think that they need to sign Kuzmenko for next season as well. Kuz will come in around the same price as Mikheyev (4.75) and Horvat around $8M imo. Long term we'll see Petey and Hughes north of $9M. Bo is not a defensive minded player. He’s a shoot first centre, who is excellent on face offs. He’s a great guy and a good captain. I hope we can get him to sign the Landeskog deal (7 mil x 8) of 56 mil. Miller is a 80-90 point power forward. He has way better playmaking skiing skills than Bo. But Miller, like Bo, isn’t very good defensively. Petey is by far the better defensive player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said: Maybe, they get in and become the Cinderella team in the playoffs and afterwards, make another appearance a decade (or two) later (82, 94, 11 & ?). Didn’t realize the best team in franchise history was a Cinderella team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Bo is not a defensive minded player. He’s a shoot first centre, who is excellent on face offs. He’s a great guy and a good captain. I hope we can get him to sign the Landeskog deal (7 mil x 8) of 56 mil. Miller is a 80-90 point power forward. He has way better playmaking skiing skills than Bo. But Miller, like Bo, isn’t very good defensively. Petey is by far the better defensive player. Petey is the best defensively, Horvat has been used as a match up player but he's only ok at it. To say that he's not responsible though would be misleading. That's what I'm saying. Nobody complains about his play on the defensive side. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Crabcakes said: Petey is the best defensively, Horvat has been used as a match up player but he's only ok at it. To say that he's not responsible though would be misleading. That's what I'm saying. Nobody complains about his play on the defensive side. On 650 guys like Drance are often spouting statistics that indicate Bo is a very average defensive player. I love Bo and want him to sign a Landeskog deal to stay with us, but he’s definitely not defensive minded. He tries hard, and we need his face off skills. Saravelli said this morning, on 650, that Bo was number one n guys likely to get moved before the TDL. I would have traded Miller at the 2022 TDL and signed Bo last summer. But that’s me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: This group knows the difference and what it takes to go the distance in the playoffs against good teams Sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Pears said: Didn’t realize the best team in franchise history was a Cinderella team. Didn't you hear about the name change ? Edited November 25, 2022 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanCan2023 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Petey is the best defensively, Horvat has been used as a match up player but he's only ok at it. To say that he's not responsible though would be misleading. That's what I'm saying. Nobody complains about his play on the defensive side. With Petey once again getting attention outside of BC, the comparison to Datsyuk are getting hot. Id say he is our best bet for an trophy other then Stanley with a future Selke. Flip a coin with Demko- Vezna or Hughs- Norris. Obviously either 3 will not be within the next 2 or so years. So long as Bo keeps scoring there will be no complaints. Never heard a TBL fan bitch about Stamkos's defensive game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said: Big IF, moving forward but the 2011 was a good team that got Betmanned, in the playoffs Nope. 54 wins. President’s Trophy. Nothing Cinderella about it that run was expected, the runs in 82 and 94 were not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: On 650 guys like Drance are often spouting statistics that indicate Bo is a very average defensive player. I love Bo and want him to sign a Landeskog deal to stay with us, but he’s definitely not defensive minded. He tries hard, and we need his face off skills. Saravelli said this morning, on 650, that Bo was number one n guys likely to get moved before the TDL. I would have traded Miller at the 2022 TDL and signed Bo last summer. But that’s me. In a previous post, I was talking about how moving the right 3 players would do wonders for the Canucks. I suggested starting with keeping Bo and moving JT. JT can be brilliant but he's also a give away machine. JT has also proven that he's not a centre. You don't give away top 6 centres particularly if you only have 2 of them. A lot of people want to move on from Horvat but to me, that is the easy way out and a mistake. I think Seravelli's comments are based on the amount of talk going on. And Drance, well we all know why Drance has no hair. It's because he set it all on fire long ago . He's closer to Chicken Little than anything I'm sure glad we don't have reactionary's like Drance in the front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Sometimes you get column A, sometimes you get column B. But you've gotta have them to be able to roll the dice. Some of the blame can also be allocated to our in-house development. Or to Benning not being the super scout we thought he was while running the Canucks. They can, but for this team they usually don't. Not in recent memory anyway. We moved a 2nd to dump Dickinson, we also moved one in the OEL trade (that one's a matter of opinion), gave a 2nd+ to rent Toffoli before letting him walk, gave one up alongside Jared McCann+ in the Gudbranson deal, gave up another when trading Bonino for Sutter, traded one for Baertschi, gave up another for Vey, gave up another for Roy baby too. And that's just the last ten years. Not exactly a bunch of wins. that is actually brutal I like to go with the next 5 picks because sometimes a good GM sees things differently than just the pick we could have had Here is is some of what we missed Roy, 16 games - Lekkonen, Carrier, Bertuzzi ( didn't Lekkonen and Carrier score on us this week?) Vey, 14 goals - Montour R shot D Baertschi, 58 goals, parts of 5 seasons - R Andersson, Dunn, Siegenthaler ( 3 NHL defensemen) Sutter. 56 goals, parts of 6 seasons - Gustavson, Dube, Grundstrom, Radysh Gudbranson, 139 games - Aplund, Peeke (much talked about future canuck), Koyrou, Hajek Tofoli. 17 games, and insurance that Tampa didn't get our unprotected pick 1st pick in 2020 - Niederbach, Bloomqvist (another Girraffe),Ponomarev OEL, and his $7+M til 2028 - Haight, Sapoviliv, Nyman and that is my venture down the Rabbitt Hole-Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda for today 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, lmm said: that is actually brutal I like to go with the next 5 picks because sometimes a good GM sees things differently than just the pick we could have had Here is is some of what we missed Roy, 16 games - Lekkonen, Carrier, Bertuzzi ( didn't Lekkonen and Carrier score on us this week?) Vey, 14 goals - Montour R shot D Baertschi, 58 goals, parts of 5 seasons - R Andersson, Dunn, Siegenthaler ( 3 NHL defensemen) Sutter. 56 goals, parts of 6 seasons - Gustavson, Dube, Grundstrom, Radysh Gudbranson, 139 games - Aplund, Peeke (much talked about future canuck), Koyrou, Hajek Tofoli. 17 games, and insurance that Tampa didn't get our unprotected pick 1st pick in 2020 - Niederbach, Bloomqvist (another Girraffe),Ponomarev OEL, and his $7+M til 2028 - Haight, Sapoviliv, Nyman and that is my venture down the Rabbitt Hole-Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda for today Yup, the last ten years of how we've utilized our 2nd round picks are exactly why I'm so bullish on keeping them. We don't even really have much to show for all the 2nd rounders we've moved out over the past decade, it's sad. Alternatively, we've only acquired three 2nd round picks over the last decade and one of them was because Columbus hired Torts, they did away with that compensation bit shortly after. Otherwise it was our getting a 2nd back for Bieksa and Garrison. If you back beyond 2012 it doesn't look great either. We've had some pretty shit luck trading away 2nd round picks for the most part, capfriendly goes back to 2003. https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/canucks?round=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 30 minutes ago, Pears said: Didn’t realize the best team in franchise history was a Cinderella team. the first trip was a total Cinderella, all the best teams lost in the first round, I remember thinking we could go far after the first round that year, ( I was much hopeful and less jaded back then) the second trip was a good team that dipped that year (94) but was better in 92+93, many players peaked including Pat Quinn as Manager/Coach and even the Griffiths' as owners the third trip was an older team that also peaked and didn't have much to offer after their only big run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, lmm said: that is actually brutal I like to go with the next 5 picks because sometimes a good GM sees things differently than just the pick we could have had Here is is some of what we missed Roy, 16 games - Lekkonen, Carrier, Bertuzzi ( didn't Lekkonen and Carrier score on us this week?) Vey, 14 goals - Montour R shot D Baertschi, 58 goals, parts of 5 seasons - R Andersson, Dunn, Siegenthaler ( 3 NHL defensemen) Sutter. 56 goals, parts of 6 seasons - Gustavson, Dube, Grundstrom, Radysh Gudbranson, 139 games - Aplund, Peeke (much talked about future canuck), Koyrou, Hajek Tofoli. 17 games, and insurance that Tampa didn't get our unprotected pick 1st pick in 2020 - Niederbach, Bloomqvist (another Girraffe),Ponomarev OEL, and his $7+M til 2028 - Haight, Sapoviliv, Nyman and that is my venture down the Rabbitt Hole-Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda for today And with some of those seconds we attached young players like McCann. This philosophy to move futures in hopes to “win now” has to stop. I thought JR would tell the owner what we truly need to do, but it seems he’s blindly following the same marching orders as the previous GMs. Gillis pushed back and got fired. JR needs to push back too. No way our owner could get away with firing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Yup, the last ten years of how we've utilized our 2nd round picks are exactly why I'm so bullish on keeping them. We don't even really have much to show for all the 2nd rounders we've moved out over the past decade, it's sad. Alternatively, we've only acquired three 2nd round picks over the last decade and one of them was because Columbus hired Torts, they did away with that compensation bit shortly after. Otherwise it was our getting a 2nd back for Bieksa and Garrison. If you back beyond 2012 it doesn't look great either. We've had some pretty shit luck trading away 2nd round picks for the most part, capfriendly goes back to 2003. https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/canucks?round=2 yes I use Hockey DB they go back so far it makes you want to cry 1979, 3rd round, Canucks #47 Ken Ellicott Oilers #48 Mumble mumble Messier 4th round Canucks #68 Art Rutland (played on a team with Paul Coffey)[ ONLY ONE PLAYER MADE THE nhl, GUESS WHO] Oilers #69 Glenn Anderson that's about 10 Stanley Cups right there 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Pears said: Nope. 54 wins. President’s Trophy. Nothing Cinderella about it that run was expected, the runs in 82 and 94 were not. Did say 2011 team was a good team - but still still a one & done team. Based on the 10 to 20 year cycle, Cinderella might be making an appearance within the next 10 years - so there is a reason to be optimistic despite all the current mess ??? TRUST THE PROCESS - whatever it means cause by default the Canucks will be there Edited November 25, 2022 by ShawnAntoski 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Harold Drunken said: When opinions are proven wrong with facts and examples, then the people providing the facts aren't giving their opinion - they're proving your opinion to lack evidence and merit. It may be your opinion that the earth is round, it doesn't make it true. And those that disagree with your opinion aren't haters or ignorant, they are correct. Of course you're allowed to have an opinion....that's free speech, but when you're opinion is proven wrong time and time again you have to have some self awareness and come to the conclusion that it IS possible your opinion may not be accurate, you are human after all. How do you prove an opinion wrong? It’s an opinion there’s no right or wrong. Stop being self centred and think you guys are right and everyone else is wrong. I don’t think Martin have been great this season he’s been slightly below average that’s a f**ing opinion who the h*** are you to say nope I’m right you are wrong? Stop being full of yourself. My opinion is not facts just like your opinion ain’t facts it’s your opinion Edited November 25, 2022 by wai_lai416 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Just now, ShawnAntoski said: Did say 2011 team was good but still still a one & done team Yup. Was it about 3 years we were really good? Sure Gillis build our best team ever, but it cost futures to do so. I guess that’s okay, because it worked, but no FRIGGIN’ way should ?Bennington had the same orders from our owner. But he did. And so does JR. It’s about time we rebuild this mess. Tear it back to Petey. That’s our corner stone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, lmm said: yes I use Hockey DB they go back so far it makes you want to cry 1979, 3rd round, Canucks #47 Ken Ellicott Oilers #48 Mumble mumble Messier 4th round Canucks #68 Art Rutland (played on a team with Paul Coffey)[ ONLY ONE PLAYER MADE THE nhl, GUESS WHO] Oilers #69 Glenn Anderson that's about 10 Stanley Cups right there I'm glad someone understands my pick frustration We've def had misses but if we actually held on to our 2nd rounders we'd probably get more hits 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. Was it about 3 years we were really good? Sure Gillis build our best team ever, but it cost futures to do so. I guess that’s okay, because it worked, but no FRIGGIN’ way should ?Bennington had the same orders from our owner. But he did. And so does JR. It’s about time we rebuild this mess. Tear it back to Petey. That’s our corner stone. Yeah: those 2-3 years were SURPRISINGLY some of the best years to be a Canuck fan. Long wait from inception: 3 years out of 52, is better than zero. But there were some good teams led by Linden and Naslund, but still no cup vs some of Bettmans pet projects: FLA teams Edited November 25, 2022 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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