Harold Drunken Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, J-23 said: We will get him, once Rutherford realizes the only reason he won cups in Pittsburg was because of his two 1st overalls and two 2nd overalls. Yeah that's not even close to being true lol Go take a look at the Penguins top contributors during those playoff runs and tell me how many of those guys were acquired as free agents and via trade. Edited December 5, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, stawns said: Everyone seems to.tjink if we get rid of these guys there's going to be cap space. There won't be, imo, that's just a pipe dream people are hanging on. Any deal with any of those guys brings in as much cap.space as goes out, or close to it Trades with those players involved will most likely be hockey deals for established roster players .........best case scenario, they save a bit of cap and maybe get an expiring deal in there somewhere Yip. Same goes for trading Bo for some magical solution. It will be for some magic beans and an established prospect. Ok, and then we have a giant hole at center. The issues on this team are deep, and the equity to change it is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Harold Drunken said: Yeah that's not even close to being true lol Go take a look at the Penguins top contributors during those playoff runs and tell me how many of those guys were acquired as free agents and via trade. This is true. I haven't been a huge fan of the new management, but they did do an excellent job in Pittsburgh bringing in depth players. Even here, fourth line, Lazur, nice additions for reasonable cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, rekker said: Yip. Same goes for trading Bo for some magical solution. It will be for some magic beans and an established prospect. Ok, and then we have a giant hole at center. The issues on this team are deep, and the equity to change it is lacking. I am 100% against moving Bo, but he would bring a big haul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rekker said: This is true. I haven't been a huge fan of the new management, but they did do an excellent job in Pittsburgh bringing in depth players. Even here, fourth line, Lazur, nice additions for reasonable cost. Yeah, they brought in lots of guys who stepped up big time and were some of thier top scorers....Kessel, Hornqvist, Kunitz, Bonino, Perron, Dumoulin, Schultz, Rust (that's not all of them) were all guys that were brought in or late picks that were absolutely key in those cups and runs. Of course having Letang, Crosby, Malkin etc helps but saying they won cups because they also drafted elite franchise players isn't a negative lol I love how guys try and spin that as a knock on their achievements. That's like saying "Colorado only won the cup because they Drafted Mackinnon, Makar...sure that helped alot but it took more than those guys to win. Edited December 5, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 8 hours ago, CanucksJay said: If we trade bo and kuz, we better be trading millsy too. Id be so pissed if he was on our roster while we rebuild. Oh he'll be here You know he'll be here Burning $8 mil in our pockets and giving up on plays like no tomorrow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Yeah that's not even close to being true lol Go take a look at the Penguins top contributors during those playoff runs and tell me how many of those guys were acquired as free agents and via trade. No Crosby, Malik or Fleury. No cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, J-23 said: No Crosby, Malik or Fleury. No cup. Yeah you could say the same about Colorado, it still doesn't matter. You're just stating the obvious, and you can take away any cup winning teams top 3 players that won in the last 15 years and say the exact same thing lol I like how people try and spin the fact they drafted 3 elite franchise players as a negative - stupid argument. Edited December 5, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Just now, Harold Drunken said: Yeah you could say the same about Colorado, it still doesn't matter. You're just stating the obvious, and you can take any cup winning teams top 3 players that last 15 years and say the exact same thing lol Ya that’s the point… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, J-23 said: Ya that’s the point… So your point is if you take away a teams top 3 players they won't win the cup? Boy, that's some deep stuff there. Hot take. Edited December 5, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Just now, Harold Drunken said: So your point is if you take away a teams top 3 players they won't win the cup? Boy, that's some deep stuff there. Hot take. When you have guys like Crosby, Malkin and Fleury it makes life way easier building a team. Penguins had the luxury of building with 2 first overalls and 2 second overalls. One of them being a generational leader and player. Life is very easy when your starting point is that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, J-23 said: When you have guys like Crosby, Malkin and Fleury it makes life way easier building a team. Penguins had the luxury of building with 2 first overalls and 2 second overalls. One of them being a generational leader and player. Life is very easy when your starting point is that Again, you're just stating the obvious. Of course having those guys was huge - but trying to spin that as a knock on the management of that team is hilarious. the "Oh well they drafted 3 elite franchise players so of course they won" argument is such a lazy narrative. But when you look at the supporting cast and depth those teams had, those guys were huge in winning those cups. It's awfully hard to win a cup without depth thoughout your lineup and the right mix of guys. The majority of their top 5 playoff scorers both years were either traded for or free agents. Kessel was their leading playoff scorer in 15/16, Bonino and Hagelin were also top 5 (3 of 5 top playoff performers were added via trade or f.a) Edited December 5, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 26 minutes ago, stawns said: Everyone seems to.tjink if we get rid of these guys there's going to be cap space. There won't be, imo, that's just a pipe dream people are hanging on. Any deal with any of those guys brings in as much cap.space as goes out, or close to it Trades with those players involved will most likely be hockey deals for established roster players .........best case scenario, they save a bit of cap and maybe get an expiring deal in there somewhere Yeah I know you're dealing with reality so I appreciate your view but don't like that reality at the same time lol. You're completely right though. There is no way we're getting rid of all those guys and freeing up $17mil like EP suggests above. In my plan I'm looking to jettison these players slowly with no cap coming back or cap that expires sooner. This of course coincides with the league hopefully getting some breathing room as we progress and likely takes a year from now or longer to accomplish. In the meantime I would be targetting right D and trying to dump these guys 1 by 1. I think Boeser and Garland could be sold at the right time to the right club. They are both youngish, have intrinsic value, and can play a role for a team. Otherwise just ride them out. No use trading them for other crap just because it's different. Maybe we acquire a 3C that way but I think I'll puke if I see us acquire another #5 - #7 dman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Just now, Harold Drunken said: Again, you're just stating the obvious. Of course having those guys helped - but trying to spin that as a knock on the management of that team is hilarious. the "Oh well they drafted 3 elite franchise players so of course they won" argument is such a lazy narrative. But when you look at the supporting cast and depth those teams had, those guys were huge in winning those cups. It's awfully hard to win a cup without depth thoughout your lineup and the right mix of guys. The majority of their top 5 playoff scorers both years were either traded for or free agents. Yup. Added Kessel, as a steal of a deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. Added Kessel, as a steal of a deal. Kessel, Hornqvist, Kunitz, Bonino, Perron, Dumoulin, Schultz, Rust, Daley People forget Matt Murray was a big reason they won the second cup, he was drafted 83rd overall Edited December 5, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Again, you're just stating the obvious. Of course having those guys was huge - but trying to spin that as a knock on the management of that team is hilarious. the "Oh well they drafted 3 elite franchise players so of course they won" argument is such a lazy narrative. But when you look at the supporting cast and depth those teams had, those guys were huge in winning those cups. It's awfully hard to win a cup without depth thoughout your lineup and the right mix of guys. The majority of their top 5 playoff scorers both years were either traded for or free agents. Kessel was their leading playoff scorer in 15/16, Bonino and Hagelin were also top 5 (3 of 5 top playoff performers were added via trade or f.a) Not a knock on management group just pointing out the facts. Replace Crosby, Malkin and Fleury with Horvat, Pettersson and Demko. Those moves won’t help them win the cup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Drunken Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, J-23 said: Not a knock on management group just pointing out the facts. Replace Crosby, Malkin and Fleury with Horvat, Pettersson and Demko. Those moves won’t help them win the cup. Lol you're comparing the depth and supporting cast of that team to the depth of the Canucks????? That team would beat us right now with Malkin and Crosby out of the lineup lol Edited December 5, 2022 by Harold Drunken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 9 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: Yeah I know you're dealing with reality so I appreciate your view but don't like that reality at the same time lol. You're completely right though. There is no way we're getting rid of all those guys and freeing up $17mil like EP suggests above. In my plan I'm looking to jettison these players slowly with no cap coming back or cap that expires sooner. This of course coincides with the league hopefully getting some breathing room as we progress and likely takes a year from now or longer to accomplish. In the meantime I would be targetting right D and trying to dump these guys 1 by 1. I think Boeser and Garland could be sold at the right time to the right club. They are both youngish, have intrinsic value, and can play a role for a team. Otherwise just ride them out. No use trading them for other crap just because it's different. Maybe we acquire a 3C that way but I think I'll puke if I see us acquire another #5 - #7 dman. I have no issues with a hockey trade if it's the right players, especially with Boeser, who should be able to get a #4-5 dman or 3C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Harold Drunken said: Lol you're comparing the depth and supporting cast of that team to the depth of the Canucks????? That team would beat us right now with Malkin and Crosby out of the lineup lol Not comparing the depth of our team and theirs. Comparing the superstars. Edited December 5, 2022 by J-23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 9 hours ago, CanucksJay said: If we trade bo and kuz, we better be trading millsy too. Id be so pissed if he was on our roster while we rebuild. I don’t think Miller is movable. Also his NMC is kicking in I believe soon. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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