Focus on defence

[Canucks-12]

The point of discussion is the focus (or lack thereof) on defence. 
 

It may be that the players just aren’t good enough to play solid D, but I believe there’s more to it. It’s about playing defensively as a 5-man unit.
 

I think the main problem with this team is defensive structure. The D-man aren’t so strong which is why structure is even more important. It doesn’t appear there is a good structure is place for the players to defend. 
 

What’s the solution to this? 
 

Obviously better D-man but more so I think it’s the coaching staff. I hope next season the coaching staff is fully replaced with defensive minded coaches. Our forward group is strong enough to produce on their own. 
 

This team can be so much better than what they show if their focus was on defence. This is obvious but let’s see if management does something about it. 

[Alflives]

Yup. We have too many top minute forwards who are just friggin’ terrible without the puck.  They don’t support the 

D side of the game much at all.  And the two worst are Miller and Bo.  

[Coconuts]

The solution is clearly adding more forwards, the larger the cap hits the better 

[Viper007]

They're just slow to react to a lot of things going on in the defensive zone.  Every time there should be a switch, there's a hesitation which lets the other team players get open.  I don't know if they don't know what to do, or they're just overthinking it too much.  Gaps are too big, not strong enough in front of them.  Too many easy seam passes.  So many things to name.

[Elias Pettersson]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. We have too many top minute forwards who are just friggin’ terrible without the puck.  They don’t support the 

D side of the game much at all.  And the two worst are Miller and Bo.  

You forgot to add Boeser to that list...

[higgyfan]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You forgot to add Boeser to that list...

And Kuze.  Really, in the top 6, there is only Pete + Mik that play much of a defensive game.

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You forgot to add Boeser to that list...

And the tiny tot (Garland) is a total suckeroo defensively too.  No wonder we give up so many high danger chances and goals.  

[King Heffy]

We had a similar group last year that was fine under Shaw.  Yeo has a proven track record of being a problem everywhere he goes.  It's no coincidence that our structure has been poor after this scumbag was put in charge of it. 

[Crabcakes]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yup. We have too many top minute forwards who are just friggin’ terrible without the puck.  They don’t support the 

D side of the game much at all.  And the two worst are Miller and Bo.  

Boeser -14

Pearson -9

Miller -8

 

I'm not going to worry about others but these guys are some to worry about

[ShawnAntoski]

14 hours ago, King Heffy said:

We had a similar group last year that was fine under Shaw.  Yeo has a proven track record of being a problem everywhere he goes.  It's no coincidence that our structure has been poor after this scumbag was put in charge of it. 

Good point: Shaw vs Yeo or Baumer.  Fans tend to focus too much on players but forgets the importance of the coach, implementing the system.  Very stark difference with the same roster and the results. 

[ButterBean]

16 hours ago, King Heffy said:

We had a similar group last year that was fine under Shaw.  Yeo has a proven track record of being a problem everywhere he goes.  It's no coincidence that our structure has been poor after this scumbag was put in charge of it. 

Was it really fine tho? Demko playing at a Vezina level helped to mask a lot of those issues. 

[iceman64]

23 hours ago, Canucks-12 said:

The point of discussion is the focus (or lack thereof) on defence. 
 

It may be that the players just aren’t good enough to play solid D, but I believe there’s more to it. It’s about playing defensively as a 5-man unit.
 

I think the main problem with this team is defensive structure. The D-man aren’t so strong which is why structure is even more important. It doesn’t appear there is a good structure is place for the players to defend. 
 

What’s the solution to this? 
 

Obviously better D-man but more so I think it’s the coaching staff. I hope next season the coaching staff is fully replaced with defensive minded coaches. Our forward group is strong enough to produce on their own. 
 

This team can be so much better than what they show if their focus was on defence. This is obvious but let’s see if management does something about it. 

The solution is, and I have no idea why coaching can't see it but I'm pretty sure (99%) that this is still a Travis G hangover still.. 

 That was D trying too many stretch pass attempts which can work IF it's done fast enough, if it's not then it gives opportunity for the other forwards to close and cause turnovers, until we get a faster team so stretch passes work we need to keep players back and play tic tac toe out of the zone. 

 Until that happens it's really putting on pressure on Demko and Martin to be super human and stand on their heads to keep us in games is hardly sustainable. 

 Plus forwards covering the point properly, keep your eye on it next game and see if you notice it, Boeser is the worst at it.. that's why his D game suffers but a lot of the whole problem is positioning but that takes more playing time for the new guys. 

 Anyway until that system that's killing us because it doesn't work is changed... Well you know.. 

[Eddie]

Lots of valid comments on size and D of the forward group. 

Under Green / Baumgardner we got penned in our zone for years at a time. 
Under Bruce and Yeo / Shaw we have been better at getting out the zone. The one thing i have noticed is that Shaw tended to keep it simpler and more direct where as Yeo seems to be preferring higher risk passes across the D zone which is leader to lots of high quality Pizza's for the opposition. 

I think we need to go back to simplifying a bit more on D Zone details that way. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Shaw was the lynchpin. He was a smart defensive coach whose record with guiding defensive corps in St. Louis and Columbus spoke for themselves. 
 

In my opinion, management should have done whatever they could have to keep Shaw, as the succession plan from Boudreau. Shaw’s grown his resume throughout his career whereas Yeo’s proven to have worn out his welcome with multiple teams. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Yes, I agree. The coaching seems to be the biggest difference from last year. 

[iceman64]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:08 PM, Eddie said:

Lots of valid comments on size and D of the forward group. 

Under Green / Baumgardner we got penned in our zone for years at a time. 
Under Bruce and Yeo / Shaw we have been better at getting out the zone. The one thing i have noticed is that Shaw tended to keep it simpler and more direct where as Yeo seems to be preferring higher risk passes across the D zone which is leader to lots of high quality Pizza's for the opposition. 

I think we need to go back to simplifying a bit more on D Zone details that way. 

It's better but not by much, but it's the system that needs to go. 

 Thing is, there's too much hesitation trying for find a better pass up the middle and try it but opposing players pick it up, when the solution is soooo simple just to make the first easy pass and don't wait ala Green with the take a longgggg look, stretch pass attempts with forwards not getting themselves free from their checks instead of getting closer to the D for a easy pass option. 

 And I don't know who came up with the idea of wingers hanging around the d-zone circle and leaving the point open came from, yes that's supporting the D more but that's the centers job. 

 I don't know why this hasn't been addressed a long time before now but whatever, we need to change it before we can hope to get anywhere. 

 Side note! Great to see TD back in the lineup, he's one of our best guys making the best short fast passes to open guys and him back will show a nice difference!

[GB5]

On 12/7/2022 at 7:34 PM, Canucks-12 said:

Obviously better D-man but more so I think it’s the coaching staff. I hope next season the coaching staff is fully replaced with defensive minded coaches. Our forward group is strong enough to produce on their own. 

I disagree.

 

Travis Green was very systems orientated. The team tuned him out. 

 

There was a short boost from Boudreau when he came in who allowed a free wheeling style with defensive awareness but selfish play started appearing this season.

 

Truth is its not the coaches... Some changes/trades or at least deeper benching or reduction on icetime to core guys who are not performing as a team needs to happen.

Miller was benched in OT last game as an example of what I'm saying.

[cuporbust]

We just need to " retool " . Lol

[IBatch]

On 12/7/2022 at 10:10 PM, higgyfan said:

And Kuze.  Really, in the top 6, there is only Pete + Mik that play much of a defensive game.

Trotz.   He's got no neck because IF a player won't play a defensive game, he sticks it right up you know where.    Joking aside, in all my years following the NHL, i've never seen a team lose their star player (who plays both sides of the puck), and 40 or so goals .... Go from 280 plus GA all the way down to around 200 in one season.  Plus barely take an hit on GF.    And take then take them to back to back conference finals, almost making it to the final (losing to eventual cup champs too!) .   With the same forward group really minus their star.    If you look at those guys, nobody really pops out of the page.   Barzal that's it.    Lots of blue collar types though.    

 

Those forwards obviously had it in them to back check etc.    Sure Barzal's offense was partially neutered but also had to take over top line duties and did admirably considering.    Green was trying to do this ... and it was starting to work before he got canned.   Sloppy mental lapsed cross ice passes were all cleaned up aside from Miller a bit still, by the time Bruce came in.   Then he unleashed those shackles and the team exploded.    Have to have both to succeed.   And play a full sixty minutes.   Trotz can go anywhere so doubt he's picking Vancouver.    But I wouldn't  complain if he did that's for sure.   And don't think it's coaching, it's the team. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by IBatch

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, GB5 said:

I disagree.

 

Travis Green was very systems orientated. The team tuned him out. 

 

There was a short boost from Boudreau when he came in who allowed a free wheeling style with defensive awareness but selfish play started appearing this season.

 

Truth is its not the coaches... Some changes/trades or at least deeper benching or reduction on icetime to core guys who are not performing as a team needs to happen.

Miller was benched in OT last game as an example of what I'm saying.

Maybe Trotz could sort them out.   Agree, Green actually had them playing responsible 5 x 5 hockey with his systems last season, and kept them on their toes effort wise.   Remember how sloppy the play was at the start?  It wasn't just Miller with cross slot passes, it was a lot of players.    That was cleaned up.   A lot of one goal losses, and the PK killed us, plus our PP sucked too.   Lotto line lost its way.    

 

They could play a more responsible two way game for sure.    But it won't change the players themselves.   We could improve modestly maybe with Dermott instead of Stillman.   That's about it.   Burroughs too.   

 

MIN faced a ton of shots.   Lots of blocks.   They've seemed to have kept that going for decades now.    Our team hopefully starts the ball rolling with a hockey trade.   Matt Boldy was the player i had my eyes on going into his draft year.   Ugh.    No matter which way things go, our GM needs to draft well and trade well if we are going to make it with EP and QHs.