Nathancanuck Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 To San Jose: Brock Boeser 600K retained Conor Garland = 11M cap Jack Rathbone (minors) OR 2024 3rd, they choose To Vancouver: Erik Karlsson 2,5M retained Nick Bonino = 11M cap Aaron Dell (minors) Sharks do it to get worse this and next year (get higher draft picks) and get some pieces back that could either be flipped for picks or be part or their new core while getting rid of Karlsson's contract. Also they get a sweetener with the 3rd or Rathbone. Canucks do it to finally fix the RD and get a veteran 3rd line center for the rest of the season. And a backup goalie in case Delia fails. Because Bonino is UFA at the end of the year it frees up 2 million in cap to extend Bo. After this season try to trade Myers for the lost 3rd and use the cap to sign Kuzmenko and depth Dmen. Lineup would look like this: Miller - Horvat - Hogz/Podz Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko Pearson - Bonino - Studnicka Joshua - Aman - Lazar Hughes - Karlsson or Hughes - Schenn OEL - Schenn OEL - Karlsson Dermott - Myers Stillman - Baer Burr Very Deep Defense and more balanced Offense 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 We surely are a much better team defensively after this. We get EK! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Why do the Sharks do this, instead of selling Karlsson for a bunch of assets, now that he's shown himself to still be an offensive stalwart? Instead of 1st's and other good assets, who knows what they could really even get for Boeser/ Garland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 58 minutes ago, Nathancanuck said: To San Jose: Brock Boeser 600K retained Conor Garland = 11M cap Jack Rathbone (minors) OR 2024 3rd, they choose To Vancouver: Erik Karlsson 2,5M retained Nick Bonino = 11M cap Aaron Dell (minors) Sharks do it to get worse this and next year (get higher draft picks) and get some pieces back that could either be flipped for picks or be part or their new core while getting rid of Karlsson's contract. Also they get a sweetener with the 3rd or Rathbone. Canucks do it to finally fix the RD and get a veteran 3rd line center for the rest of the season. And a backup goalie in case Delia fails. Because Bonino is UFA at the end of the year it frees up 2 million in cap to extend Bo. After this season try to trade Myers for the lost 3rd and use the cap to sign Kuzmenko and depth Dmen. Lineup would look like this: Miller - Horvat - Hogz/Podz Mikheyev - Pettersson - Kuzmenko Pearson - Bonino - Studnicka Joshua - Aman - Lazar Hughes - Karlsson or Hughes - Schenn OEL - Schenn OEL - Karlsson Dermott - Myers Stillman - Baer Burr Very Deep Defense and more balanced Offense OMG Never make this trade !! Canucks want to get younger and free up cap so they can make good deals in the future.. Karlsson 32 - RD -- 5yr X 11.5 million averaging -- previous 4 yrs playing 52 games so lots of injuries and salary will kill any team.. Vancouver will never make this trade .. Free up cap space and this doesn't free up cap space and you have a old player.. Better ways trading One of Boeser 25 or Garland 25 separate.. Sharks would love this trade...Unless they retain 4--5 million they will have troubles trading injury prone Karlsson 32 years old.. Canucks want to get younger and free up cap... Myers easy to trade this summer after his 5 million signing bonus is paid in July.. Karlsson 32 ---11.5 million X 5 yrs --no no -- scary thought.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: Why do the Sharks do this, instead of selling Karlsson for a bunch of assets, now that he's shown himself to still be an offensive stalwart? Instead of 1st's and other good assets, who knows what they could really even get for Boeser/ Garland. Well that's exactly what they would do.. sell him for a bunch of assets.. Boeser/Garland/Rathbone or 3rd Which other team has cap to take him for a first? And would he waive his clause? I think with Pettersson, OEL, Hughes, Aman, Hogz, Sedins there is a chance he would waive to come here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 If we take Karlsson I want a 1st ++ and they take Myers + Brock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Nathancanuck said: Well that's exactly what they would do.. sell him for a bunch of assets.. Boeser/Garland/Rathbone or 3rd Which other team has cap to take him for a first? And would he waive his clause? I think with Pettersson, OEL, Hughes, Aman, Hogz, Sedins there is a chance he would waive to come here I think we view "assets" differently... Boeser's market value is currently in cap dump territory, Garland is fine, but Rathbone isn't making our shoddy defense core so his future's not really looking that promising. It's true that other teams may not have the cap to take him, but why would he waive for us? We're in no better shape than his Sharks are (also as much as the Swedish connection does seem to be a thing in the room, I hope that doesn't cause Vancouver to pick up another big contract for another area that we don't really need -- he's not the defensive partner for Hughes, and OEL - Karlsson looks both risky and expensive). For Vancouver, I hope we'd sell the 3 players we're moving separately, clear the deck, get some assets and cap space and re-jig the roster instead of locking into another long-term contract for a Swedish defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: I think we view "assets" differently... Boeser's market value is currently in cap dump territory, Garland is fine, but Rathbone isn't making our shoddy defense core so his future's not really looking that promising. It's true that other teams may not have the cap to take him, but why would he waive for us? We're in no better shape than his Sharks are (also as much as the Swedish connection does seem to be a thing in the room, I hope that doesn't cause Vancouver to pick up another big contract for another area that we don't really need -- he's not the defensive partner for Hughes, and OEL - Karlsson looks both risky and expensive). For Vancouver, I hope we'd sell the 3 players we're moving separately, clear the deck, get some assets and cap space and re-jig the roster instead of locking into another long-term contract for a Swedish defenseman. I think we view assets the same I agree on your valuation of Boeser, Garland, Rathbone but there is some upside in all of those players. Sure they most likely won't get a first out of these players but what if Boeser starts to score 30+ goals next year? Boeser's value right now is all time low but he isn't as bad as he looks right now. And if they don't like Rathbone they get a 3rd round pick instead and clear 1 contract spot (they are 49/50). I know it's risky but we won't fix the D without risk anytime soon.. In my opinion it should fix our D for the next 3 years (including this) and then we see.. The fact you don't value our assets high but still don't want to make that trade tells me it's fair value then haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 OEL and EK are the definition of Swedish house Cap Hell wed have the most expensive back end in the nhl I’m sure ? ek oel hughes myers ufffff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 4 hours ago, Nathancanuck said: Well that's exactly what they would do.. sell him for a bunch of assets.. Boeser/Garland/Rathbone or 3rd Which other team has cap to take him for a first? And would he waive his clause? I think with Pettersson, OEL, Hughes, Aman, Hogz, Sedins there is a chance he would waive to come here hahahah Did Huhges just become an honorary Swede? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 is this proposal HOF worthy or just ROH worthy? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Nathancanuck said: I think we view assets the same I agree on your valuation of Boeser, Garland, Rathbone but there is some upside in all of those players. Sure they most likely won't get a first out of these players but what if Boeser starts to score 30+ goals next year? Boeser's value right now is all time low but he isn't as bad as he looks right now. And if they don't like Rathbone they get a 3rd round pick instead and clear 1 contract spot (they are 49/50). I know it's risky but we won't fix the D without risk anytime soon.. In my opinion it should fix our D for the next 3 years (including this) and then we see.. The fact you don't value our assets high but still don't want to make that trade tells me it's fair value then haha The last bold tells me that you are confused and don't even understand what I said in my last post, so let me clarify. The reason the Sharks won't do it is Karlsson is their best trade asset, and they're clearly a rebuilding team, a.k.a. they'll tear down their roster to trade established stars like Karlsson to contenders (Vancouver is not one of them) for high-end draft picks to help them win in the future. Second, I don't value our assets high because the market doesn't value them high due to their poor performance. Boeser was going to be a healthy scratch (benched) and Rathbone is in the minors (not good enough to be at the highest level, even though he already played well in the minors before). Say what you want about there being "some upside in all of those players", NHL GM's of rebuilding teams don't trade stars with high-value (like Karlsson) for mediocre prospects (Rathbone), underachieving players on big contracts (like Boeser, whose value is worth pennies to the original dollar at this point) and then expect to flip said expensive contract on the belief that "he isn't as bad as he looks right now"; since the rest of the league likely doesn't see his value now, if they trade for Boeser they lose future potential of a high-end prospect that they could draft, and are instead stuck with a player who may never end up becoming worth the $6 million+ contract that he signed. That is bad business for the Sharks part, selling high to buy really, really low. In short, it's not that I "don't want to make that trade", it's just that there's such an imbalance in both the on-ice and trade value between these two players that it's unrealistic to expect Vancouver to be able to pull it off, and the Sharks know that they're better off selling Karlsson at high value to a team with championship aspirations (also, keeping it short, Karlsson just isn't the "fix" for the defense that you're wrongly hoping he will be). Edited December 9, 2022 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, lmm said: is this proposal HOF worthy or just ROH worthy? Is it ROFL worthy? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcam Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 4 hours ago, hammertime said: If we take Karlsson I want a 1st ++ and they take Myers + Brock Karlsson 32, with 5 years X 11.5 million are you kidding? OEL 31 -- 4 yrs X 7.2 million?? We already made one bad trade adding another old D man that averages 52 game over the previous 4 seasons GP -- 53 -- 56 -- 52-- 50 ??? Big Big No and team will not be better?? Put this rumour to bed???????? Management want to get young younger and free up cap ???? Adding 32 year old with 5 years @ 11.5 million just crazy... Sharks will have to retain 5 million and send 1st rounder to other team.. Maybe top 5 team might but doesn't make sense to teams that are not a contender.. Canucks are not a top 12 team .. If they get younger and make smart decisions they can turn this offensive machine around... 1. Trade Boeser or Garland 2, Trade Myers in summer after his 5 million bonus is paid in July.. 3. Horvat decision must come fast? Trade or sign before February .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Karlsson having a career resurgence that's for sure, but not worth the risk. There are still 4 more years after this one and it just scream OEL 2.0. If we were a cup contender maybe, but were not even a playoff team, so it helps short term, but screw us big time long term. Just another panicking move IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Seems like we make our problems worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Fixed for cap hell for a while yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Phil_314 said: Why do the Sharks do this, instead of selling Karlsson for a bunch of assets, now that he's shown himself to still be an offensive stalwart? Instead of 1st's and other good assets, who knows what they could really even get for Boeser/ Garland. Karlsson has a FULL NMC, he completely controls where he goes. It was rumored when Ottawa was trading him and again before he resigned with the Sharks, that Vancouver was one of his preferred landing spots due to his connection to the Sedins etc. The question is, does he still see Vancouver as a desirable enough destination to control the narrative and use his ability to dictate his destination. Personally, I would make this trade in a heartbeat. We might need to add minorly on this, maybe also send them the 4th rounder this year that we got from the Rangers for Motte? The size of contract limits teams and return that San Jose can expect to receive on this trade. I think what has been proposed is pretty close to what it would take to make the deal fly for both teams. Don't be surprised if this is the type of deal that is engineered partially by the agent for Boeser selling Karlsson's camp on pushing for the Canucks as a destination. Again, Yes I would do this and I believe that this is the type of deal that could happen. It's the type of deal, IMO, that Rutherford would engineer as a major shakeup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Just as a note, I believe I read that the NHL has floated an idea to the players about increasing the cap by as much as 3 million for next season and approximately the same again for the following. That would put us close to 90 million 2 seasons from now. You don't win the cup without swinging for the fences and this is something that Rutherford is known for. He's been quiet on the trade front for far too long for a guy who averaged a trade a month in Pittsburgh, don't be surprised if he's ready to show Hughes and Pettersson his commitment to chasing a cup by telling Allvin to swing away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathancanuck Posted December 9, 2022 Author Share Posted December 9, 2022 15 hours ago, lmm said: hahahah Did Huhges just become an honorary Swede? No but maybe he would like the idea to play with Hughes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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