Vancouver - Detroit (Proposal)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Simple and quick 

 

Boeser ($1,650,000 retained)   for  Detroits  2nd round and 5th round picks

 

Now you might think Detroit should pay more, especially with retention, but it is to our advantage

 

So that clears approx $5,000,000 per season

 

Look at this way............its a 2nd and a 5th , plus either money to resign Horvat or its money to resign Kuzmenko, or a RHD, or a part there of.

 

This deal can really be made with anyone who wants Boeser.

[hammertime]

I wonder what the conversion rate of cap dollars to picks is. How much dead cap is a 2nd worth?  

[Phil_314]

Why are we retaining?  Stevie Y's gonna recoup Boeser's value so well, it's probably going to look like highway robbery.

[hammertime]

Furthermore is this what its come to. Is this worth it? Signing him at all I mean?

[J.I.A.H.N]

28 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Furthermore is this what its come to. Is this worth it? Signing him at all I mean?

Yes, I think that is a conversation that is being had. Not that he is bad, because he is not, but his contract, amongst others is causing a real problem, as you know.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Simple and quick 

 

Boeser ($1,650,000 retained)   for  Detroits  2nd round and 5th round picks

 

Now you might think Detroit should pay more, especially with retention, but it is to our advantage

 

So that clears approx $5,000,000 per season

 

Look at this way............its a 2nd and a 5th , plus either money to resign Horvat or its money to resign Kuzmenko, or a RHD, or a part there of.

 

This deal can really be made with anyone who wants Boeser.

Management needs to be fired if they even consider retaining on any contract beyond this season.

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Management needs to be fired if they even consider retaining on any contract beyond this season.

Give me solutions then

 

[King Heffy]

13 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Give me solutions then

 

Trade Horvat for picks and do a proper rebuild.

[J.I.A.H.N]

14 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Trade Horvat for picks and do a proper rebuild.

I can't argue with you on that one, but I still think Boeser goes...1.6 M X2 isn't much

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I can't argue with you on that one, but I still think Boeser goes...1.6 M X2 isn't much

There's no excuse for any long-term cap dead.  We are finally free after this season from the devastation from Gillis and Benning making moves like this.  Let's learn from their mistakes.

Edited December 16, 2022 by King Heffy

[J.I.A.H.N]

5 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

There's no excuse for any long-term cap dead.  We are finally free after this season from the devastation from Gillis and Benning making moves like this.  Let's learn from their mistakes.

Well, it will be interesting what his return will be, with no retention. I mean, what is his real value? Especially at 6.65 Million per.....just how many teams do you see in on him?

 

Because, we have to look at Kuzmenko as a better option and we need that RHD..........one trade will not be enough.

[King Heffy]

Just now, J.I.A.H.N said:

Well, it will be interesting what his return will be, with no retention. I mean, what is his real value? Especially at 6.65 Million per.....just how many teams do you see in on him?

 

Because, we have to look at Kuzmenko as a better option and we need that RHD..........one trade will not be enough.

We could just keep Boeser and trade Kuzmenko for a haul.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just now, King Heffy said:

We could just keep Boeser and trade Kuzmenko for a haul.

You actually think that is a good idea?

 

[King Heffy]

23 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

You actually think that is a good idea?

 

Very much depends what a long-term deal looks like, but if we can get a good return, absolutely.   Better than wasting cap on players to not play for us.

[J.I.A.H.N]

28 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Very much depends what a long-term deal looks like, but if we can get a good return, absolutely.   Better than wasting cap on players to not play for us.

So hear me out.

Sure we trade Horvat for a prospect, a 1st and ?

 

Now we are down 1 top center..........do we draft him, or UFA search.........if its a UFA...........he costs............if he is drafted, he takes time

 

But then we trade Kuzmenko...........same as above

 

In either case we are not as good as we were before............maybe more balanced, but not as good.........so we wait for our draft picks to rippen........maybe if we are lucky 2 years

 

So for 2 years we are not as good, and but have cap...............ok, maybe we should Boeser with retention (not much) instead of Kuzmenko????

 

We shall see what JR and Alvin does, probably not as inventive as us pro's...........lol

[King Heffy]

15 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

So hear me out.

Sure we trade Horvat for a prospect, a 1st and ?

 

Now we are down 1 top center..........do we draft him, or UFA search.........if its a UFA...........he costs............if he is drafted, he takes time

 

But then we trade Kuzmenko...........same as above

 

In either case we are not as good as we were before............maybe more balanced, but not as good.........so we wait for our draft picks to rippen........maybe if we are lucky 2 years

 

So for 2 years we are not as good, and but have cap...............ok, maybe we should Boeser with retention (not much) instead of Kuzmenko????

 

We shall see what JR and Alvin does, probably not as inventive as us pro's...........lol

I prefer a full rebuild to a band-aid.  Regardless, if our management is stupid enough to consider retaining salary longer than one season, it is our duty as fans to make it clear that is completely unacceptable.

[48MPHSlapShot]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Management needs to be fired

ftfy

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, hammertime said:

I wonder what the conversion rate of cap dollars to picks is. How much dead cap is a 2nd worth?  

Well for us it was for one million or so.   Instead of Dickie, we got Lazar.    Let's say 1.5 so far is the going rate.    Brocks value has unfortunately gone into the negative space given his deal and cap constraints league wide.    What the OP suggests is fair.  

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, King Heffy said:

There's no excuse for any long-term cap dead.  We are finally free after this season from the devastation from Gillis and Benning making moves like this.  Let's learn from their mistakes.

Thing is Heffy, someone has to fix this mess right?    And if we are trading Horvat for picks like you suggest, we won't need that cap anyways.   The smart rebuilding GMs, take on bad cap.   In this respect we are taking responsibility for our own bad cap.   And getting value back for it.   The team shouldn't ever be spending to the cap during a rebuild.   So if we are rebuilding, Horvat, Brock, Kuzmenko, Miller, Schenn ideally all go.   

 

If we are "re-tooling" then we will have to spend some assets, or futures to get where we need to go too.   Instead maybe we could pay Detroit a second instead of retaining...would you prefer that?   It's about the exact same cost it was for a couple seasons of Dickie off the books right?    And then use that money for Horvat and Kuzmenko.   We'd also need to pray someone wants Pearson, and that cost isn't too high.   

 

We could retain on Myers, Brock and Pearson.   Trade Horvat, Schenn and Kuzmenko.  Sit on that bad cap until it's gone.  And enjoy that pile of picks.   That's a Sakic style re-set of their rebuild.    If EP doesn't want to sign with us, trade him later too.   Same with QHs.   Start from scratch.   It's what TO and OTT did.   Only anchor we'd have is OEL and by the time this team was becoming somewhat relevant again, as in new kids around 22, OEL will be almost done. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

So hear me out.

Sure we trade Horvat for a prospect, a 1st and ?

 

Now we are down 1 top center..........do we draft him, or UFA search.........if its a UFA...........he costs............if he is drafted, he takes time

 

But then we trade Kuzmenko...........same as above

 

In either case we are not as good as we were before............maybe more balanced, but not as good.........so we wait for our draft picks to rippen........maybe if we are lucky 2 years

 

So for 2 years we are not as good, and but have cap...............ok, maybe we should Boeser with retention (not much) instead of Kuzmenko????

 

We shall see what JR and Alvin does, probably not as inventive as us pro's...........lol

Janis also considered this early a couple times in November before the team dug themselves mostly out of another gigantic hole.      

 

We absolutely should consider retention on Myers, Pearson.  Brock or Miller (just this year) - 50% on all of them.   If we are going to rebuild, we won't need the cash anyways (and need an internal salary cap too).    Miller might want out fast too.   So maybe consider the return on him instead of Pearson.    We'd get out of a deal, and add assets.   A cup is the goal, and you can bet a middling team who needs a LW/C top line guy now, that plays on special teams, hits a lot, and is durable...will still be sought out, or an aging team risking the future for one big kick at the can (PIT?). 

 

NYR could still be interested in him, and we could take their worst contract on in return for a couple years and it wouldn't matter.   Still need someone to play. 

 

To me it's all in.   Half measures I keep saying, because that's exactly what's put us where we are today, need to stop doing that.   COL managed an incredibly quick turn around because Sakic was bold and patient with his analysis.   And very strategic about it.   We could trade for our own Girard as part of this.   Brock 50% retained instead of a pick, ask for a young promising D instead.     Myers retained for a second or the same.   Horvat a RHD or C prospect, a roster player with not much term left that's underperforming or redundant on that team, and a first.   Miller two seconds maybe (like COL got for Toews, solid player already signed to a good deal).    Schenn a second.    Kuzmenko two seconds or a first.    Trade Demko for two seconds as well and their worst goalie.   Stagger the picks over the next two drafts ... this draft comes with way too many question marks after the top five or so.   Covid, they all lost a ton of games and development time at the highest levels pre-draft.    

 

Whomever we do pick won't be on the team until the mid 2020's.   Consider this like building around the Sedins in 2003-2004 kind of.    We need to draft a goalie, a two-way center, a couple defenseman, wingers etc etc.  5 years later EP and QHs are peaking .... work with that.    Don't expect COL stuff - they won a cup five years after they drafted Makar, we're 20 points worse then second (us) with around 45 points lol.    
 

To me this should be done in the New Year if that's what they decide to do.   Rip it down completely.   Waiting for the TDL might be ok too.   Our team can go from middling to the bottom of the pack quick enough to get into a good lottery spot. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by IBatch