Canucks Management "NO-SHOW's" at STH/Memebers only meeting.

[VforVasili]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

And hours later we get someone trying to re stoke the fire, out of the embers that where still glowing.

Thanks for proving my point, given the 8 posts on the topic on this very same page by those continuing to make fun of "wokeness".

[ToTellTheTruth]

Rutherford is doing the job Aquilini wanted Quinn to do and also be the mentor for Linden as VP but ..... RIP.

 

Rutherford will end up being Scotty Bowman in Vancouver not president but the mentor without the president title.

 

Rutherford had to do an about face when Allvin signed Miller that early. Fan reaction must have been quite the surprise for Allvin who probably got advice from the Sedins' about long term deals. The Sedins were quietly shuffled to a much lower management level.

 

Why were the Sedins not there at least?

 

[24K PureCool]

7 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Rutherford is doing the job Aquilini wanted Quinn to do and also be the mentor for Linden as VP but ..... RIP.

 

Rutherford will end up being Scotty Bowman in Vancouver not president but the mentor without the president title.

 

Rutherford had to do an about face when Allvin signed Miller that early. Fan reaction must have been quite the surprise for Allvin who probably got advice from the Sedins' about long term deals. The Sedins were quietly shuffled to a much lower management level.

 

Why were the Sedins not there at least?

 

Why would the Sedins be there? They are development coaches.

[kilgore]

On 1/11/2023 at 9:04 AM, Canuck Surfer said:

Part of our problem is ''this mess!'' The pressure, or noise of our market. The gall to demand a championship in a 3 year stretch.

 

Yup, we are a middling team. There are good parts on this team, cough Pettersson. One problem is the lack of patience from, cough, fans.

 

People say they want a rebuild.  But hang out in a Post Game Thread after a loss. Too ''messy!'' The volume of manic depression is deafening.

 

 

Historically, teams like the Canucks could be fixed.  Admittedly, the trade market has been very stunted these last few years. Re the dead cap growth? But a Jim Rutherford in Carolina found pieces to make a cup winner at least once amongst historically worse performance.  Made Sid competitive every year. Vancouver, and other Canadian markets, don't have that said patience. Rebuild?

 

We are scared sh!tless if a Miller walks, or gets traded.  Then cry 6 months later when he was re-signed. People say it is the owner meddling.  It is the fans. Who should just enjoy the team, Hughes, PETEY!  It would make the atmosphere a lot easier if the team had honest support.

 

Instead we riot after any loss.

 

What a load of #$%&

 

"One problem is the lack of patience from, cough, fans" 

Its been 52 freakin years Surf. I've been a loyal fan for about 30 of those years. Such a BS meme perpetrated mostly by Vancouver sports media. 

 

For one, its not up to the fans to hire the front office, the scouts, the coaches or trade for players.  Its also not the fans that SHOULD because they do not have the connections or positions, experience, and are not payed big bucks to do that job.  Why do I have to state the obvious?  But all that means is ......so what if some fans do have an unreasonable "lack of patience"?  Its not going to change anything so why dwell on those fans?  The media loves to say that to get a rise, but if there are any pro Aqua/Benning visionaries of "just get into the playoffs and anything can happen" fans left they are dwindling fast.

 

The most important thing is improving the team.  Whining about fans whining is like whining about a child's whining about going to the dentist to fix an aching tooth.  You as a parent know that in the end, the kid will be happy and not whining sooner if you grit your teeth and get er done. The dumbest thing to do is to decide  not to go the dentist with your kid based purely on that your kid is whining too much about it.  And most kids are smart and don't whine much because  they know that the short term pain at the dentist will result in long term pain free gain.  You don't run the town dentist out of town because a few of the kids are crying about what he does for a living.  Just like most fans in Vancouver are smart enough to know, especially in hindsight, that a rebuild should have been done during the first years of Bennings tenure.  And if it had been done, who would care today, that there were some fans crying about losing their favorite player back then?  Continually blaming whiny fans for inaction by management takes them off the hook, when its they who are precisely the ones who are the most responsible for turning this team around and should feel pressure.

 

But besides that fact, there may be a lack of patience from Canucks fans, but its not a lack of patience in being able to watch a post season Canucks game, and that they will pout if they have to watch draft prospects play instead of veterans for a few years. Its a lack of patience for a Plan!  And if that plan is to strip the team down and rebuild with an eye towards a 5 year road to contention....guess what? most real fans will be good with that. Or at the very least accept it.

 

Yes...fans were worried that Miller would walk during last season. An American born player who hit 99 points for us, and who looked to be a real leader in the dressing room according to the coach.  Pretty rich in hindsight to criticize fans for being supportive of Miller and worried about the team without him here.  And yes Captain Obvious, many are unhappy with the Miller signing now, after our disastrous start, when it doesn't look good for the team especially if we are going into a rebuild phase.  What do you expect? Fans don't have a crystal ball.

 

[Gurn]

53 minutes ago, kilgore said:

And yes Captain Obvious, many are unhappy with the Miller signing now,

Many were unhappy with him being re-signed at all.

More are now unhappy, joining a bunch that were already dismayed.

[ToTellTheTruth]

1 hour ago, 24K PureCool said:

Why would the Sedins be there? They are development coaches.

They are the face of the franchise and were not development coaches to start off with. Besides fans came out to the very end so wouldn't an appearance be warranted?

[24K PureCool]

1 minute ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

They are the face of the franchise and were not development coaches to start off with. Besides fans came out to the very end so wouldn't an appearance be warranted?

They are development coaches now so appearance ain't warranted. Doesn't matter what they were before. 

[Toews]

On 1/11/2023 at 1:14 PM, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

 

I always imagine the positive effects of what would happen if the players and team received (at least some level of) unconditional support from across the entire fan base. Kind of like what has shown to be very effective in addiction or mental health situations. Alas, our toxic fan base and media will never let that happen, as many seem to feel the need to break others down to build themselves up.

 

Nothing in life is worthy of "unconditional support", what you are advocating for is irrationality. That never leads to any good. Kids turn into spoiled brats when their parents refuse to admit that the child can ever do wrong. Political leaders become unaccountable to their electorate when the people refuse to admit fault with their chosen party. Only organized religion and cults ever advocate for "unconditional support" and those are some of the worst, most toxic institutions in the world. Even in situations of addiction or mental health, you should still be critical and scrutinize the words and actions of the people you are trying to help. Otherwise all you are doing is being an enabler, especially in situations where addiction is involved.

[ToTellTheTruth]

1 minute ago, 24K PureCool said:

They are development coaches now so appearance ain't warranted. Doesn't matter what they were before. 

So the fewer Canuck management types the better? Are they kept in a closet with ear muffs on? I was not there but what questions were asked and answered?

[arsenalian]

20 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

I wonder if mafia man is gonna renew

 

LOL, yeah. He only has tickets so his son can go to the game wearing the oppositions jersey, so doesn't matter what the on-ice Canucks product is

[24K PureCool]

2 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

So the fewer Canuck management types the better? Are they kept in a closet with ear muffs on? I was not there but what questions were asked and answered?

You asked about the Sedins. They are not in mangement full stop. There is no reason for them to be in this event if there is even one as they don't have a say in management decisions as they are coaches. 

[ToTellTheTruth]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

Yes...fans were worried that Miller would walk during last season. An American born player who hit 99 points for us, and who looked to be a real leader in the dressing room according to the coach.  Pretty rich in hindsight to criticize fans for being supportive of Miller and worried about the team without him here.  And yes Captain Obvious, many are unhappy with the Miller signing now, after our disastrous start, when it doesn't look good for the team especially if we are going into a rebuild phase.  What do you expect? Fans don't have a crystal ball

Wow, quite a thread.

 

Everything from gender to religions.

 

I quoted this part because I couldn't find 1 in 7 posters that wanted Miller resigned a full year before he was needed to be especially after the Rutherford's warning about signing older players to long term contracts. Pretty sure most figured he would be traded this year at least because the cap dictated that something had to happen. IMO Miller is the worst type of player to have in the room for a group of young players. Kris(t) he is 31 next year in his first year. 30 yrs old in March of this year.

 

It was keeping Horvat, Boeser and Miller or Pettersson, Demko and others leaving.

Sticking with the same core and expecting something different was truly insanity.

 

What do you need a crystal ball for? Hope?

 

The cap is listed, player cap hits and length of contracts are posted, player bio's (injuries) are public although there is some interpretation required, future draft players are known for 2 years ahead, the CBA and NHL bylaws are public, NHL rules public. Even so many stats now probably even for how many bathroom calls during a game no doubt.

 

It isn't rocket science. The biggest stumbling block is the old boys network and back room unwritten rules. 

[kilgore]

7 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Many were unhappy with him being re-signed at all.

More are now unhappy, joining a bunch that were already dismayed.

Its pretty easy to say that now though.

 

I remember it more as a sense of shock and confusion from some fans.  As we were expecting Bo to be signed first. And the shock from many was more that an American born player who was scoring at an elite level, and looking for his retirement contract, was willing to do that in a Canadian city.

 

As I recall, we had a great final half, one of the best teams in the league during those months. Things looked to be going up.  We didn't need a full rebuild. How many fans were calling for that then? You? Especially after landing Kuzmenko too. 

 

Were some questioning the move for cap hit reasons? Sure. But most hockey analysts didn't consider the contract to be overpriced for what he was bringing to the table. And based on the belief that this season would be a continuation of the Boudreau bump, and Miller was a big part of the teams upwards swing, it wasn't illogical to see why management did it at the time. A little risky for sure. I remember seeing it from both sides back then. but I too was fooled by the false gold I saw in the team last season, and trusted the pickups on D would get us through, Dermott, Poolman, if Demko kept up his game, and we had more offensive ability up front. 

 

Too many times good US players don't want to sign in a Canadian city. And fellow Americans like Tkachuk and Gaudreau proved it. So in some ways it was a win for the organization.  And if this team had continued on last October as they left off before Demko was injured at the end of last season, and we were in a playoff position, not too many people would be complaining about Miller's contract IMO.  At least he's producing, unlike some of the players. 

 

Now in hindsight....which is 20/20 as you know....if its looking more and more like we need an actual bare bones rebuild, then no, the timing is off, and his contract while it's maybe fine for another team on the rise, it's not right for a a rebuilding team.  The real mistake, and bad timing, was JB trading a first and a third for him in the first place, (I don't remember too many complaints then) when we should have been in a rebuild mode. Instead of gathering draft picks we traded them for a top point producer who gave management the excuse to keep on their mindless no-plan plan.

[ToTellTheTruth]

21 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

You asked about the Sedins. They are not in mangement full stop. There is no reason for them to be in this event if there is even one as they don't have a say in management decisions as they are coaches. 

It is okay but I don't think they should be sheltered considering the effect of keeping them till the end had.

 

So at a fan invited meeting the faces of the franchises SHOULD BE ABSENT right? 

 

Just exactly what is they do?

 

What team events are they qualified to attend where there are fans? Stand in the middle of the ice and get more applauds for play a decade ago?

 

Anyway what questions were answered at the meeting?

[Harold Drunken]

On 1/11/2023 at 4:21 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

JR signed a 3 year deal from last year.  So he has one more year after this year to fix this mess...

Wondering if Sakic would ever want to come back home and manage him hometown team? One can dream...

[kilgore]

8 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Wow, quite a thread.

 

Everything from gender to religions.

 

I quoted this part because I couldn't find 1 in 7 posters that wanted Miller resigned a full year before he was needed to be especially after the Rutherford's warning about signing older players to long term contracts. Pretty sure most figured he would be traded this year at least because the cap dictated that something had to happen. IMO Miller is the worst type of player to have in the room for a group of young players. Kris(t) he is 31 next year in his first year. 30 yrs old in March of this year.

 

It was keeping Horvat, Boeser and Miller or Pettersson, Demko and others leaving.

Sticking with the same core and expecting something different was truly insanity.

 

What do you need a crystal ball for? Hope?

 

The cap is listed, player cap hits and length of contracts are posted, player bio's (injuries) are public although there is some interpretation required, future draft players are known for 2 years ahead, the CBA and NHL bylaws are public, NHL rules public. Even so many stats now probably even for how many bathroom calls during a game no doubt.

 

It isn't rocket science. The biggest stumbling block is the old boys network and back room unwritten rules. 

 

I said fans thought Bo would be re-signed first. That's what I thought. And I thought Miller might still sign, but he probably wouldn't. And we'd see it play out during the season, much like Bo is now.

 

But when that deal was signed, I was one who was already resigned to to fact that we were on a re-tool not a rebuild. After we landed Kuz, and had a good trajectory from the latter half. So I was looking at that signing through that lens. Maybe I'm just too optimistic. But I was of the belief that it was a risky move cap wise, with hopes  it would go up, but that it could  also be a good  thing for the team. He was after all our most productive forward. What team wouldn't want to retain that player? Especially if they believed that they could make the playoffs next season? 

 

I didn't love or hate the signing at the time, but understood that it could go really good, or really bad. Depending on how the team as a whole played the following season.  Meh, the gamble didn't pay off with immediate results.  But I'm still okay with Miller on the team as long as he's contributing.

[GB5]

1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Rutherford had to do an about face when Allvin signed Miller that early.

If Rutherford as team president didn't know about the Miller signing at the time the deal was made to commit 56 million dollars to him then there are bigger issues with the management of this team than anyone could have very anticipated.

 

In other words, there is no way in hell Jimmy wasn't in on the signing.

[Gurn]

22 minutes ago, kilgore said:

Its pretty easy to say that now though.

Yes, the truth should always be easy to say.

much easier to remember what was actually happening at the time, than try to make it up later.

 

Many, many people were not happy when the deal was done, and more are unhappy now.

[awalk]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

What a load of #$%&

 

"One problem is the lack of patience from, cough, fans" 

Its been 52 freakin years Surf. I've been a loyal fan for about 30 of those years. Such a BS meme perpetrated mostly by Vancouver sports media. 

 

For one, its not up to the fans to hire the front office, the scouts, the coaches or trade for players.  Its also not the fans that SHOULD because they do not have the connections or positions, experience, and are not payed big bucks to do that job.  Why do I have to state the obvious?  But all that means is ......so what if some fans do have an unreasonable "lack of patience"?  Its not going to change anything so why dwell on those fans?  The media loves to say that to get a rise, but if there are any pro Aqua/Benning visionaries of "just get into the playoffs and anything can happen" fans left they are dwindling fast.

 

The most important thing is improving the team.  Whining about fans whining is like whining about a child's whining about going to the dentist to fix an aching tooth.  You as a parent know that in the end, the kid will be happy and not whining sooner if you grit your teeth and get er done. The dumbest thing to do is to decide  not to go the dentist with your kid based purely on that your kid is whining too much about it.  And most kids are smart and don't whine much because  they know that the short term pain at the dentist will result in long term pain free gain.  You don't run the town dentist out of town because a few of the kids are crying about what he does for a living.  Just like most fans in Vancouver are smart enough to know, especially in hindsight, that a rebuild should have been done during the first years of Bennings tenure.  And if it had been done, who would care today, that there were some fans crying about losing their favorite player back then?  Continually blaming whiny fans for inaction by management takes them off the hook, when its they who are precisely the ones who are the most responsible for turning this team around and should feel pressure.

 

But besides that fact, there may be a lack of patience from Canucks fans, but its not a lack of patience in being able to watch a post season Canucks game, and that they will pout if they have to watch draft prospects play instead of veterans for a few years. Its a lack of patience for a Plan!  And if that plan is to strip the team down and rebuild with an eye towards a 5 year road to contention....guess what? most real fans will be good with that. Or at the very least accept it.

 

Yes...fans were worried that Miller would walk during last season. An American born player who hit 99 points for us, and who looked to be a real leader in the dressing room according to the coach.  Pretty rich in hindsight to criticize fans for being supportive of Miller and worried about the team without him here.  And yes Captain Obvious, many are unhappy with the Miller signing now, after our disastrous start, when it doesn't look good for the team especially if we are going into a rebuild phase.  What do you expect? Fans don't have a crystal ball.

 

Heck of a good post

[kilgore]

5 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Yes, the truth should always be easy to say.

much easier to remember what was actually happening at the time, than try to make it up later.

 

Many, many people were not happy when the deal was done, and more are unhappy now.

 

I agree with your first paragraph. But it hardly supports your position IMO.

 

Many, many people are saying......

I agree there were many questioning the signing as I recall, including myself.  But the angst about it wasn't as profound as now, for obvious reasons. Because the team is losing. As I remember, many, many fans were questioning what Bo brought to the team as Captain. His point production didn't look like it would be more than his usual 50 points give or take. He wasn't very fast or all that great defensively, and many questioned his lack of defending teammates and using his size better. So for many, many, fans like me, I wasn't all that unhappy or confused why they signed Miller first, before Bo, when they surprisingly came to a number both sides had agreed to.  That is closer to the truth for most fans.