[Report - LeBrun] Canucks will try to re-sign Andrei Kuzmenko as trade interest grows

[stawns]

19 minutes ago, Provost said:

He will be too expensive and too big a risk at full market value he could get as a UFA.  He could likely earn $6.5 million plus AAV with a 5-6 year term.  He is a fun player who is doing well, but that doesn't seem like a contract to shell out with his limited resume.  He should be in the Garland range of contract to make it palatable.  It is his only big contract for his career so I don't expect him to take a big discount even if he likes playing with Petterson.  He chose here for playing opportunity to put himself in the best position to cash in as a UFA.

He would also command a pretty darn good return to a contender wanting to beef up.  Easily a 1st round pick plus a prospect even just as a rental.  Most contenders don't have much cap space, so adding a guy who looks like he will score around 30 goals and 70 points for under a million dollars in cap hit and it has huge value.  Heck, I don't know if you can retain salary to make a guy cost less than league minimum (I don't see a particular rule against it), then trading him at 50% retained actually opens up extra cap for a contender as he would give hundreds of thousands in extra space compared with whatever depth player he would be pushing off the active roster.

$6.5 million in cap space for a defenceman next year, plus really good assets in a trade make it a pretty easy decision to trade him.  That would be the first time in years that the team made a move that actually bought low and sold high.

That's why they need to negotiate asap, to find out where they are at.  I don't see him getting a long deal.......I think most teams, teams he'd want to play for, would be only be comfy in the 3 year range.  He hasn't played a full season yet and still has a lot to prove. 

 

Hopefully he really likes playing with Petey.

 

[J-23]

Wonder what the offers are on him.

 

Fine either way, sign or trade, or sign and trade…

[King Heffy]

Either Kuz or Horvat needs to be traded for futures, plus we also need a hockey trade with another winger moved out for blueline help.

[rekker]

I love this player and his chemistry with EP is important. Hope he's re-signed. Only way I'd trade him is if it's a first round pick. Rather have this skilled,  smiling, character with Petey than a second. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Either Kuz or Horvat needs to be traded for futures, plus we also need a hockey trade with another winger moved out for blueline help.

Nope, no thanks.  Both need to be re-signed and miller and Boeser given the boot

[EddieVedder]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

Nope, no thanks.  Both need to be re-signed and miller and Boeser given the boot

Yup.  

Miller, boeser, garland, myers can all go.

[Alflives]

Just now, King Heffy said:

Either Kuz or Horvat needs to be traded for futures, plus we also need a hockey trade with another winger moved out for blueline help.

If not a hickey trade we could use some assets in a Bo trade to dumperoo Garland or Boeser clearing cap to sign a UFA D man.  That Tampa team that win two recent Cups (and got to the final) and boy had Hedman as a guy on D they drafted.  The rest were acquired by trade or signed as UFAs. They were all very stout defensively though.  Strong and physical guys (with some skill) who were very hard to play against.  
To be totally hinders we really only have one actual NHL top four D.  And we really have no nHL level D who make it hard on the other team.  Our D is way too easy to play against.  Hughes is great.  But he shouldn’t have to play 25 min a game.  We need three other D who are as tough as Schenn but that can play top four minutes.  
OEL and Schenn would be fine in a bottom pair role. 

[Canucks Curse]

retain 1 million on Boeser and I am sure you can move him before next season, boeser at 5.63 is a pretty good deal 

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

retain 1 million on Boeser and I am sure you can move him before next season, boeser at 5.63 is a pretty good deal 

Retaining any salary on a non-expiring contract cripples the team going forward.  Any member of management who thinks it should even be considered is unfit to work in hockey ops and needs to be fired on the spot.  Let's learn from the devestation caused by Gillis and Benning and not have more dead cap once we are finally free from it at the end of this season.

Edited January 12, 2023 by King Heffy

[Provost]

In a perfect world you could sign Bo for $7.5 million on a max term deal, and Kuzmenko for $5 million x 3 years… and then move off from Miller, Pearson, Myers, Stillman, Poolman, Garland and Boeser…. Without costing assets or taking any cap hit beyond this season back.  Just a blank slate to start over.

 

Then you have a chance to retool on the fly in the offseason.  It isn’t a perfect world though and that just isn’t going to happen in a flat cap system.

 

XX - Petterson - Kuzmenko

Mikheyev-Horvat- XX

XX - XX - Podkolzin 

XX - Lazar - XX

XX

 

Hughes- XX

OEL - XX

Schenn-Bear

Dermott

 

Demko

Spencer

 

That gives us about $32-33 million to sign two top six wingers ($12 million-ish); two top four D ($12 Million-ish); and five bottom six forwards $9 million-ish.

 

If there was actually a way to get from where we are to the above, I am all for it.  There just isn’t a path to do it, and I don’t think people suggesting we keep all these good players understand.  You can’t just drop bad contract without destroying your chances to compete in the future by giving up all your high draft picks over the next few years.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Kuzmenko definitely needs to stay.  He's Petey's wingman and 1/3 of our top line for the future.  Trading him only gets futures that may or may not pan out.  He's a top line winger who has great chemistry with our best player.

 

Keep Petey and Kuzy and you can ship out every other forward other than Mikheyev and Lazar who actually know how to play defence...

[Ronaldoescobar]

Don’t worry mgmt will screw this up somehow.

[billabong]

Kuz has been more effective than any of us thought and he drives play which is a rarity 

 

2yrs/6m? 
 

horvat, kuz and schenn all UFA’s 

 

Trade’em if no contract is in place…simple as that. 

[captainhorvat]

No chance this junk management will be able to extend him

[Ted Lasso]

41 minutes ago, Provost said:

In a perfect world you could sign Bo for $7.5 million on a max term deal, and Kuzmenko for $5 million x 3 years… and then move off from Miller, Pearson, Myers, Stillman, Poolman, Garland and Boeser…. Without costing assets or taking any cap hit beyond this season back.  Just a blank slate to start over.

 

Then you have a chance to retool on the fly in the offseason.  It isn’t a perfect world though and that just isn’t going to happen in a flat cap system.

 

XX - Petterson - Kuzmenko

Mikheyev-Horvat- XX

XX - XX - Podkolzin 

XX - Lazar - XX

XX

 

Hughes- XX

OEL - XX

Schenn-Bear

Dermott

 

Demko

Spencer

 

That gives us about $32-33 million to sign two top six wingers ($12 million-ish); two top four D ($12 Million-ish); and five bottom six forwards $9 million-ish.

 

If there was actually a way to get from where we are to the above, I am all for it.  There just isn’t a path to do it, and I don’t think people suggesting we keep all these good players understand.  You can’t just drop bad contract without destroying your chances to compete in the future by giving up all your high draft picks over the next few years.

 

 

 

 

 

Wonder if the Hoglander - Aman - Karlsson line could slot into the bottom 6. 
 

Also, aren’t Joshua & Studnicka signed for next year?

Edited January 12, 2023 by Kenny Powers

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

Wonder if the Hoglander - Aman - Karlsson line could slot into the bottom 6. 
 

Also, aren’t Joshua & Studnicka signed for next year?

They are all buriable contracts so could be slotted into roster spots or in the minors.

[Coconuts]

I mean, they were always going to make him an offer so they can at least say they tried to negotiate, that's a no brainer.

 

Whether they'll offer him an offer that's in the bracket Kuzmenko's camp wants is another thing. Could just be a token offer if we're really looking to bottom out, he'd bring in a haul. 

 

I'd trade him, and figure he will be traded. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Coconuts

[mll]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

He will be too expensive and too big a risk at full market value he could get as a UFA.  He could likely earn $6.5 million plus AAV with a 5-6 year term.  He is a fun player who is doing well, but that doesn't seem like a contract to shell out with his limited resume.  He should be in the Garland range of contract to make it palatable.  It is his only big contract for his career so I don't expect him to take a big discount even if he likes playing with Petterson.  He chose here for playing opportunity to put himself in the best position to cash in as a UFA.

He would also command a pretty darn good return to a contender wanting to beef up.  Easily a 1st round pick plus a prospect even just as a rental.  Most contenders don't have much cap space, so adding a guy who looks like he will score around 30 goals and 70 points for under a million dollars in cap hit and it has huge value.  Heck, I don't know if you can retain salary to make a guy cost less than league minimum (I don't see a particular rule against it), then trading him at 50% retained actually opens up extra cap for a contender as he would give hundreds of thousands in extra space compared with whatever depth player he would be pushing off the active roster.

$6.5 million in cap space for a defenceman next year, plus really good assets in a trade make it a pretty easy decision to trade him.  That would be the first time in years that the team made a move that actually bought low and sold high.

 

He has an 850K performance bonus target.  Some teams might be concerned about next season's cap space which could affect his trade value.  Teams in LTIR won't be able to avoid the overage.

30 goals - 70 points would typically have an ELC player hit part of his targets but who knows how the targets are structured.  Maybe it's a non-factor but to give an idea, if he somehow hits his full target, a team would need 3.85M in deadline cap space that they can no longer use to cover his bonus this season and avoid the overage.  

3.85M x 41 days left at the TDL / 185 day season = 850K.

 

No idea how that would work in a retained transaction - does the bonus still transfer in full to his new team.  

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by mll

[wildcam]

Its a tough balancing act to make the right decisions and also keeping your star core guys happy with trades you make..

The core guys have always been for me 1. Petey  24  - 2. Hughes 23.  3. Demko 27. 4. Horvat....

I was wrong management signed Miller 29  - W/ C because of a 99 point season -- Miller is really a 68--75 going guy

better winger then a centre..

Horvát a solid #2 centre. -- 28-- 34 G -- 64-70 point guy  -- great on face-offs .. This year he is heading for 56 G

1. Petey has to be signed 7 years X 9.3 AAV-- Have to have a good winger for Petey and keep him happy #1 centres are hard to find.

2. Kuzmenko - Great 1st year way better then I expected GP 75 -- 18-20 G -- 39--45 points.. I was way off

Signing him over 6 million X 5 years is risky looking a his previous years in KHL..Playing with Petey helps but Kuzmenko looks good.

3 yrs X 5.8 AAV - Try and sign close to 6 million if you can't we have to trade...1st rounder - top prospect -  younger bottom 6 player with upside.

 

3. Horvát or Miller - One has to be traded -- I would try to trade Miller -- then sign Horvat 7 yrs X 8 million

4. Myers - after 5 million dollar bonus is paid out July 1st - will only have 1 million owing X 1 year-- easy to move big RD man then.

5. Boeser  or Garland - One of these guys must be move - Move Boeser retain 1 million X 2 yrs will help move him with 6.8 million dollar contract.

[Lewlowned]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

In a perfect world you could sign Bo for $7.5 million on a max term deal, and Kuzmenko for $5 million x 3 years… and then move off from Miller, Pearson, Myers, Stillman, Poolman, Garland and Boeser…. Without costing assets or taking any cap hit beyond this season back.  Just a blank slate to start over.

 

Then you have a chance to retool on the fly in the offseason.  It isn’t a perfect world though and that just isn’t going to happen in a flat cap system.

 

XX - Petterson - Kuzmenko

Mikheyev-Horvat- XX

XX - XX - Podkolzin 

XX - Lazar - XX

XX

 

Hughes- XX

OEL - XX

Schenn-Bear

Dermott

 

Demko

Spencer

 

That gives us about $32-33 million to sign two top six wingers ($12 million-ish); two top four D ($12 Million-ish); and five bottom six forwards $9 million-ish.

 

If there was actually a way to get from where we are to the above, I am all for it.  There just isn’t a path to do it, and I don’t think people suggesting we keep all these good players understand.  You can’t just drop bad contract without destroying your chances to compete in the future by giving up all your high draft picks over the next few years.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I agree with this. Unfortunately, as you said, it's not very likely to be how all this shakes out in the end. And in my perfect world we somehow managed to offload OEL, too.

 

As for dropping bad contracts, who do you consider as having bad contracts on the team? OEL, obviously. Myers. Do you count Boeser's contract as bad? Miller? Do these guys cost us to move right now? Or can they be traded with a less sweet, sweetener?

 

I just hope if Bo goes they trade Miller, too. Because we'll win more games with him than without him, his attitude this season has been a let down, and he's going to be trending down when the rest of the team is good. But it's all about accumulating assets, so if you gotta add important assets to a deal for Miller it's not worth it.