The Rebuild (Proposals/Discussion/and Tears!) (Long Read)

[Ted Lasso]

6 minutes ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

Thanks again, Buds. LOL, Not everyone thinks my proposals are all that real.........but I only spitball in fantasy...........at least until I get the Canuck GM job, anyways! LOL

It’s pretty easy to criticize, or say some player is ‘untouchable.’ But for a player like Horvat or Kuzmenko, we could say the same thing. Another team should have to part with quality assets for these two, even if it’s a club’s  top prospect, like Iorio, Morrow, etc.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Agree with the general premise. Basically need to step back a yr or two, in order to leap forward. Some random points:

 

- Maybe we should follow Minny's case, buying out OEL? Even at it's height of cost, 2 seasons of about 4-5% of team AAV is a bitter pill we may have to take

- Probably Mgt's biggest concern is keeping the young stars(EP & QH, namely) on board. It might be better to receive some prospects(as opposed to only draft picks), in order to expedite the whole shebang. Draft picks take 3-5 yrs.

- If Demko played this season like last yr, we'd all be under the illusion that this team can compete. So his absence has underlined the changes we need to proactively undertake. All in a season where the '23 class is supposedly the Real McCoy. Might be perfect timing, in the grand scheme.

 

Personally, am all-in to trade BH, JTM, AK & LS by TDL, provided the return ranges anywhere from reasonable to excellent. Younger, bigger, tougher, faster & deeper(as a team) should be the mantra. Something like the Jets currently resemble.

[BPA]

For perspective, some of the bottom teams draft picks…

 

 

[Nucker 67]

Sounds like it's possible Bo could go to the Bruins and Luke could go back to the Lightning.

 

My guess:

 

Horvat to BOS for Lysell+ (because he's a smallish skilled Swede)

Schenn to TB for Perbix (I don't like this deal, but I don't have confidence Allvin will get Cal Foote in return) 

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Sounds like it's possible Bo could go to the Bruins and Luke could go back to the Lightning.

 

My guess:

 

Horvat to BOS for Lysell+ (because he's a smallish skilled Swede)

Schenn to TB for Perbix (I don't like this deal, but I don't have confidence Allvin will get Cal Foote in return) 

May get Foote for Kuzmenko. 

[DrJockitch]

17 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Agree with the general premise. Basically need to step back a yr or two, in order to leap forward. Some random points:

 

- Maybe we should follow Minny's case, buying out OEL? Even at it's height of cost, 2 seasons of about 4-5% of team AAV is a bitter pill we may have to take

- Probably Mgt's biggest concern is keeping the young stars(EP & QH, namely) on board. It might be better to receive some prospects(as opposed to only draft picks), in order to expedite the whole shebang. Draft picks take 3-5 yrs.

- If Demko played this season like last yr, we'd all be under the illusion that this team can compete. So his absence has underlined the changes we need to proactively undertake. All in a season where the '23 class is supposedly the Real McCoy. Might be perfect timing, in the grand scheme.

 

Personally, am all-in to trade BH, JTM, AK & LS by TDL, provided the return ranges anywhere from reasonable to excellent. Younger, bigger, tougher, faster & deeper(as a team) should be the mantra. Something like the Jets currently resemble.

Would add Brock and Garland to that list. 
‘I think OEL buyout is inevitable but if they can manage to move out some players and bring back some NHL quality right D it may be best to give him another season with a quality partner and see if he is at least serviceable. Another year before the buyout will reduce the length of the penalty.  Not really fair to judge any D who is mostly partnered with Myers but OEL looks surprisingly bad this year considering he was decent last year. 
‘We are probably going to be bad for at least another season so he can absorb the loosing before his buyout.  He has made a career of it. 

[Nucker 67]

3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

May get Foote for Kuzmenko. 

It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the Kuzmenko situation. I think they really want to re-sign him, but Kuz's agent said he won't talk contracts until after the season. He might want $6 million. Canucks can't let him walk for nothing. 

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

It's going to be interesting to see how they handle the Kuzmenko situation. I think they really want to re-sign him, but Kuz's agent said he won't talk contracts until after the season. He might want $6 million. Canucks can't let him walk for nothing. 

We really need to clear cap, JR understood this and still made the situation worse. 
I would really be looking to trade him to someone like TB who would not have a chance to sign him. At least if he gets to open market, he has had a year of playing with Pettey and really seems to like it here. 

[TripleSedins]

If anything the management has failed to build a hockey "club" in which players want to leave it on the line each and every game for each other.

 

You can't only just buy or trade for players and expect these kind of intangibles to work out development and on/off ice relationships are important too.

 

The more I watch the Canucks this year it is apparent that some players are not buying in.

 

We seem to be able to put the puck in the net, but... when it comes to working together on team defense and elevating play at key moments of the game we fail miserably, giving up large leads or starting the game down and clawing back. 

In this vein I think the following lineup are players who have shown commitment to each other, the coaching staff, and the overall direction of the franchise. Unfortunately the cupboard is loaded with bottom six players and bottom pairing defense. As you can see the team is not actually as strong as it appeared on paper and we were overvalued at the start of the year.

 

(*Denotes overpaid player)

IN:

 

Forwards:
Elias Pettersson

Bo Horvat

Andrei Kuzmenko
Ilya Micheyev

Vasily Podkolzin
Jack Studnicka

Curtis Lazar

Dakota Joshua
Will Lockwood

Lane Pederson

Sheldon Dries

Defense:
Quinn Hughes

Ethan Bear

Luke Schenn

Jack Rathbone

Travis Dermott

Kyle Burroughs

OUT:

J.T. Miller

Brock Boeser

OEL* 

Tyler Myers*

Connor Garland*

 

With those players leaving the team (and also at times under-performing) we look more like an AHL team than an NHL team. 

[Hairy Kneel]

On 1/13/2023 at 11:54 AM, Mr. Quacks said:

Shouldn't even be a consideration! This group is closer to competing than rebuilding. We've got a solid group of players with heart and battle it out every night. We will not get full value back on player like Horvat and Miller - they're just too good. Demko on his day is one of the best in the league and we gotta support Boeser into playing like goalscorer we know he is!

We're missing a goalie and one more big physical dman who can skate. 

We need him for the pk and to clear net front. And we need to tweak our 3rd line to be more physical and defense oriented, and can skate (Podz). 

I really hope Dem can fully heal. We don't have to risk him coming back too soon. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

We have a glorious opportunity to do a crash fast rebuild. We have a young set of Petey, Hughes, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Rathbone and Lekker who are all in their early 20s (and Lekk who's a teenager). Build around them. Everyone 25-32 can go. Luckily we have some of the league's best talents in their prime. We also have obviously weighty contracts who will be hard to move.

 

Bo can fetch us a bucket load. Miller could have scored us a huge load last year, maybe even some now still. Garland and Boeser are very tradeable. Schenn is a great piece. Kuzmenko may be the most perfect asset for a contender to acquire.

 

Then there's guys like OEL and Myers who will be too tough to move (although there's interest for Myers), as will injured Pearson. Our 4th line aren't worth anything for decent teams, and Bear probably isn't worth trading as we need someone to ride out the tank anyway.

 

I'd do something like this for a rebuild (not retool):

 

1) Bo to a contender for young player + top prospect + 1st. We'd likely have to take cap back to make it work though. Has to be a C and defenceman.

 

2) Miller for a prospect + 1st. Again, need a team with cap coming off the books next year or take some cap back.

 

3) Boeser and Garland can fetch us a couple of 2nd round picks easily, if not some B grade prospects.

 

4) Kuzmenko surely nabs us a 1st, no need for cap back, maybe a conditional 2nd or 3rd if he resigns with them?

 

5) Schenn is worth a 2nd for sure.

 

Suddenly we've acquired say a top young defenceman, two A grade prospects, a couple of B grade prospects, three 1sts and a 2nd. 

 

Plus with all that cap space I'd happily pull an Arizona for a year or two and eat other team's bad contracts for a first or second round pick and tank hard for the end of this year and we'll likely suck again next season.

 

Won't take long then before the kids are up and running, then in 2-3 years we start complementing our kids with UFAs or trades to get them competitive and away we go.

[Ted Lasso]

16 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

We're missing a goalie and one more big physical dman who can skate. 

We need him for the pk and to clear net front. And we need to tweak our 3rd line to be more physical and defense oriented, and can skate (Podz). 

I really hope Dem can fully heal. We don't have to risk him coming back too soon. 

Yep. We need a checking line with an identity, starting with a 3C

Edited January 23, 2023 by Kenny Powers