Just Because There Was No Management Thread

[R3aL]

23 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'd prefer not to hire someone who is clearly not qualified to have any involvement in talent evaluation.  If he's being hired to take care of the business side with zero input into hockey ops, fine.  Otherwise, that idiot has already done more than enough damage.

 

I meant just on the operations / business side in a presidents role.

 

it’s not going to happen.

 

but I’m not very confident In JR. I don’t like a lot of the moves he made in pits and I don’t like the communication he’s directly had control over so far in our org.

 

im not feeling confident in the way he’s handles the contracts and team dynamics of miller and Horvat too.

 

Very worried with him at the helm 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

Had a moment of confusion where I was trying to figure out if this was a new thread about Canucks management that had been created to fill a void, or if this was an anti-JR/PA thread about how the current Canucks have “no management.” 

[King Heffy]

21 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

From December 2021 to December 2022, we went from being the laughingstock of the NHL to something a bit more promising, and then back to being a laughingstock.  At face value, the Mikheyev and Miller contracts are decent for a team with cap space.  But we have no space!  The bizarre part is that everyone (and I mean anyone who follows the NHL) seems to know what is wrong with the team EXCEPT the ones in charge.  Our defence is the worst in the league.  We likely need to rebuild in earnest and start tanking.  Instead we need to brace ourselves for yet another futile playoff push, as management has clearly stated.

 

It's driving fans nuts how other teams that didn't even mean to tank (ie. CBJ, ANA) are still tanking better than we are.  It is insane that the team vision was and still is to make the playoffs.  Move over, Philly... we are about to give Hughes and Petey the Claude Giroux treatment - an entire decade of depressing mediocrity.

Our D is still nowhere close to being as bad as Toronto or Edmonton.  We need a couple of high end guys, but this teams have 3 NHLers between them.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by King Heffy

[Fred65]

To my way of thinking management put a higher opinion of the defence than the fans. So then  went to sign more forwards during the summer rather than shoring up the "D" Basically a bad read of the roster. When I heard Allvin waxing poetically about Poolman fired a warning to me

[PlanB]

4 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Here's my thoughts on current management:

 

-said the team needs more structure and discipline and they'd be fine  -  absolutely nothing changed.

 

-said this team lacks picks/prospects in the organization then traded a 2nd for a fringe NHL'er.

 

-said they didn't have enough high end young defenceman in the organization and then drafted another winger

 

-said they wanted to get cap flexibility - the re-signed Boeser and gave JTM an untradeable career-defining contract.

 

-said they needed to address the defence last offseason and came back with the exact same group expecting different results 

 

-acknowledged they needed to improve the PK yet we sit dead last in the league in this area 

 

-publicly went on record saying if things didn't turn around 'hard decisions' would need to be made - then they sent a couple peripheral guys to the AHL.

 

-backed themselves into a corner with their Captain who's having a career season and is unlikely to be re-signed leaving a potential gaping hole in the lineup 

 

Needless to say, my confidence in this current management group is not high. 

How anyone is supposed to understand the direction this team is headed after all of these glaring contradictions is beyond me?  

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

26 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Our D is still nowhere close to being as bad as Toronto or Edmonton.  We need a couple of high end guys, but this teams have 3 NHLers between them.

That is the most ridiculous comparison I've heard in a while.  How delusional can one be to think Toronto's blueline is somehow worse than ours.  We give up around 4 goals a game and they give up 2.5.  They are at the top of the league (just below Boston) and we are at the bottom (just above Anaheim).  If you can't name 3 solid d-men on Toronto, that is probably because you just don't follow the NHL that much.

 

As for Edmonton, expect Holland to make a big move at the deadline.  Everyone knows where the Oilers need help.  They have four reliable, albeit overpaid d-men who are either struggling (Nurse) or forced to play too many minutes (Ceci, Kulak, Barrie).  In any case, I've just named four NHLers on Edmonton that would probably replace players on our blueline, cap hit notwithstanding.  Again, it just seems like you're not watching enough hockey to pay attention.

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

That is the most ridiculous comparison I've heard in a while.  How delusional can one be to think Toronto's blueline is somehow worse than ours.  We give up around 4 goals a game and they give up 2.5.  They are at the top of the league (just below Boston) and we are at the bottom (just above Anaheim).  If you can't name 3 solid d-men on Toronto, that is probably because you just don't follow the NHL that much.

 

As for Edmonton, expect Holland to make a big move at the deadline.  Everyone knows where the Oilers need help.  They have four reliable, albeit overpaid d-men who are either struggling (Nurse) or forced to play too many minutes (Ceci, Kulak, Barrie).  In any case, I've just named four NHLers on Edmonton that would probably replace players on our blueline, cap hit notwithstanding.  Again, it just seems like you're not watching enough hockey to pay attention.

The only actual NHLers Toronto has are Brodie and Giordano.  Edmonton only has Nurse.  The remainder on both teams would struggle to get ice time in Abbotsford. Just because Yeo is sabotaging the team doesn't mean that the AHL trash on those teams is any better.

[Gurn]

Rielly, Morgan "A"		NMC	LD	NHL	Draft	28	9.1	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000
Holl, Justin		M-NTC	RD	NHL	Signed	30	2.4	$2,000,000	UFA
Liljegren, Timothy			RD	NHL	Draft	23	1.7	$1,400,000	$1,400,000	RFA
Sandin, Rasmus			LD	NHL	Draft	22	1.7	$1,400,000	$1,400,000	RFA
Timmins, Conor			RD	NHL	Trade	24	1.0	$850,000	RFA
Giordano, Mark		35+	LD	NHL	Trade	39	1.0	$800,000	$800,000	UFA
Benn, Jordie			LD/RD	NHL	Signed	35	0.9	$750,000

 

Compared to 

Hughes, Quinn			LD	NHL	Draft	23	9.5	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	UFA
Ekman-Larsson, Oliver		RSNMC	LD	NHL	Trade	31	8.8	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	UFA
Myers, Tyler		M-NTC	RD	NHL	Signed	32	7.3	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	UFA
Bear, Ethan		RS	RD	NHL	Trade	25	2.2	$1,800,000	RFA
Dermott, Travis			LD/RD	NHL	Trade	26	1.8	$1,500,000	RFA
Stillman, Riley			LD	NHL	Trade	24	1.6	$1,350,000	$1,350,000	RFA
Schenn, Luke			RD	NHL	Signed	33	1.0	$850,000	UFA
Burroughs, Kyle			LD/RD	NHL	Signed	27	0.9	$750,000	UFA

 

Honestly- the Canuck D compared to Toronto's is about equal

The way the entire Vancouver team plays defensively is not as good as the way Toronto plays, though

[DSVII]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

The only actual NHLers Toronto has are Brodie and Giordano.  Edmonton only has Nurse.  The remainder on both teams would struggle to get ice time in Abbotsford. Just because Yeo is sabotaging the team doesn't mean that the AHL trash on those teams is any better.

Right, you'd bench Morgan Reilly for Stillman/Dermott/Myers/OEL?

 

Bouchard and Broberg I'd take over our current blueliners not named Quinn Hughes. 

 

[DSVII]

2 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Rielly, Morgan "A"		NMC	LD	NHL	Draft	28	9.1	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000	$7,500,000
Holl, Justin		M-NTC	RD	NHL	Signed	30	2.4	$2,000,000	UFA
Liljegren, Timothy			RD	NHL	Draft	23	1.7	$1,400,000	$1,400,000	RFA
Sandin, Rasmus			LD	NHL	Draft	22	1.7	$1,400,000	$1,400,000	RFA
Timmins, Conor			RD	NHL	Trade	24	1.0	$850,000	RFA
Giordano, Mark		35+	LD	NHL	Trade	39	1.0	$800,000	$800,000	UFA
Benn, Jordie			LD/RD	NHL	Signed	35	0.9	$750,000

 

Compared to 

Hughes, Quinn			LD	NHL	Draft	23	9.5	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	$7,850,000	UFA
Ekman-Larsson, Oliver		RSNMC	LD	NHL	Trade	31	8.8	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	$7,260,000	UFA
Myers, Tyler		M-NTC	RD	NHL	Signed	32	7.3	$6,000,000	$6,000,000	UFA
Bear, Ethan		RS	RD	NHL	Trade	25	2.2	$1,800,000	RFA
Dermott, Travis			LD/RD	NHL	Trade	26	1.8	$1,500,000	RFA
Stillman, Riley			LD	NHL	Trade	24	1.6	$1,350,000	$1,350,000	RFA
Schenn, Luke			RD	NHL	Signed	33	1.0	$850,000	UFA
Burroughs, Kyle			LD/RD	NHL	Signed	27	0.9	$750,000	UFA

 

Honestly- the Canuck D compared to Toronto's is about equal

The way the entire Vancouver team plays defensively is not as good as the way Toronto plays, though

Eh we see things differently, the only thing equal thing about it is that the entire Toronto D core ($14.7m) almost equals OEL and Myers combined (13.26).

 

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Right, you'd bench Morgan Reilly for Stillman/Dermott/Myers/OEL?

 

Bouchard and Broberg I'd take over our current blueliners not named Quinn Hughes. 

 

Absolutely.  At least they're willing to attempt to play acceptable defence in their own zone, unlike Rielly who has shown zero sign at any point in his career that he's capable of playing like an NHLer without being a massive defensive liability.  I wouldn't even let Bouchard play in Abbotsford until he makes a real commitment to learning how to play defence.  Broberg still has hope of developing if you put him in the AHL and shelter his minutes.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

The only actual NHLers Toronto has are Brodie and Giordano.  Edmonton only has Nurse.  The remainder on both teams would struggle to get ice time in Abbotsford. Just because Yeo is sabotaging the team doesn't mean that the AHL trash on those teams is any better.

Just absolute nonsense, and it really shows you haven't paid any attention.  Sandin/Liljegren have been lights out this season and are EASILY the best bottom pairing in the league.  Morgan Rielly is essentially the Toronto version of Quinn Hughes - super deadly on-puck, scary to watch off the puck defensively.  Your hatred of him and offensive d-men in general is super annoying.  He is an excellent player, both to watch and on paper.

[DSVII]

16 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Absolutely.  At least they're willing to attempt to play acceptable defence in their own zone, unlike Rielly who has shown zero sign at any point in his career that he's capable of playing like an NHLer without being a massive defensive liability.  I wouldn't even let Bouchard play in Abbotsford until he makes a real commitment to learning how to play defence.  Broberg still has hope of developing if you put him in the AHL and shelter his minutes.

Agree to disagree, the numbers from our Dmen right now speak for themselves, I'd go as far as to say that the standard that Edmonton and Toronto have for acceptable defense is higher than our team right now, and that is not meant as a compliment to them either. 

 

To say you think Riley Stillman is more of an NHLer than Morgan Reilly, we really have no common ground to agree on. So i'll leave it at that.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by DSVII

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Eh we see things differently, the only thing equal thing about it is that the entire Toronto D core ($14.7m) almost equals OEL and Myers combined (13.26).

 

Hughes

Reilly

Giordano

OEL

Holl

Myers

Liljegren

Sandin

Schenn

Timmins

Poolman

Dermott

Bear

Burroughs

 

To me not much to pick or choose here. However, the overall team defensive play is better on Toronto, they've also had better goaltending this season.

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

19 minutes ago, Gurn said:

 

Honestly- the Canuck D compared to Toronto's is about equal

 

The way the entire Vancouver team plays defensively is not as good as the way Toronto plays, though

Not even close, man... Sandin, Liljegren, and Giordano are all playing like $4+ million defencemen on bargain contracts.  Vancouver is backwards, where our highest paid guys are playing like fringe NHLers.

17 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Right, you'd bench Morgan Reilly for Stillman/Dermott/Myers/OEL?

 

Bouchard and Broberg I'd take over our current blueliners not named Quinn Hughes. 

Broberg and Bouchard have been very problematic for Edmonton.  Those two, along with Murray, Niemelainen, have all been playing like a 7th d-man.  Four players who have failed to step up their game and led to a disappointing start for the Oilers.  If I were to combine the best of both Oilers/Canucks, I would have Hughes-Schenn, Nurse-Ceci, Kulak-Barrie, with Dermott-Bear as backup.  It's not a strong blueline by any means, but it will at least distribute the puck better to our forwards.

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

where our highest paid guys are playing like fringe NHLers.

Our highest paid guy is doing fine.

Gio is still a decent d man, but father time has reduced his game.

I'd take Quinn over Reilly.

 

Truly- swap all their defensemen for ours and Toronto would be meh, the Canucks, on the other hand would still suck; because our forwards play worse defensively than Toronto- which is scary all by it self. And as I've said- Toronto's goal tending has been better this year.

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

9 minutes ago, Gurn said:

 

To me not much to pick or choose here. However, the overall team defensive play is better on Toronto, they've also had better goaltending this season.

Again - you are grossly understating the quality of Toronto's defencemen.  If I were to combine both bluelines, I don't even know where to put Hughes.  They are stacked on the left side, with Rielly-Giordano-Sandin.  What Toronto could use is a reliable RHD.  We... actually have one guy who could fill a familiar role for them... How ironic would it be if Luke Schenn returned to wear #2 for the blue and white?

[Gurn]

Just now, Bob.Loblaw said:

Again - you are grossly understating the quality of Toronto's defencemen.  If I were to combine both bluelines, I don't even know where to put Hughes.  They are stacked on the left side, with Rielly-Giordano-Sandin.  What Toronto could use is a reliable RHD.  We... actually have one guy who could fill a familiar role for them... How ironic would it be if Luke Schenn returned to wear #2 for the blue and white?

If you don't know where to put Hughes, then it is you grossly over estimating the Toronto D.

But your mileage may vary.

Schenn would help them, and if they sent a 2nd rounder to the Canucks, I'd send Schenn to them.

Have a great day.

[DSVII]

12 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Not even close, man... Sandin, Liljegren, and Giordano are all playing like $4+ million defencemen on bargain contracts.  Vancouver is backwards, where our highest paid guys are playing like fringe NHLers.

Broberg and Bouchard have been very problematic for Edmonton.  Those two, along with Murray, Niemelainen, have all been playing like a 7th d-man.  Four players who have failed to step up their game and led to a disappointing start for the Oilers.  If I were to combine the best of both Oilers/Canucks, I would have Hughes-Schenn, Nurse-Ceci, Kulak-Barrie, with Dermott-Bear as backup.  It's not a strong blueline by any means, but it will at least distribute the puck better to our forwards.

Not saying Broberg and Bouchard are not without flaws, but their cheap contracts make them more appealing than our guys lol. It's my bias for sure, it's hard for me to remove return on $ spent when evaluating players. 

[DSVII]

4 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Again - you are grossly understating the quality of Toronto's defencemen.  If I were to combine both bluelines, I don't even know where to put Hughes.  They are stacked on the left side, with Rielly-Giordano-Sandin.  What Toronto could use is a reliable RHD.  We... actually have one guy who could fill a familiar role for them... How ironic would it be if Luke Schenn returned to wear #2 for the blue and white?

Hughes would be their top LHD IMO.