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Fire Rutherford & Allvin

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MtnHockeyGuy

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Can this board stop changing sentiment for every other game?

 

When I was writing, don't be too positive this team should go into rebuild, that was 8 games ago 6-2 vs SJS, I get bashed for continuing to advocating rebuild lol.. 

 

Now after a string of horrible losses everyone's suddenly looking at what's in the top 4 draft pick. Most frickle fans in the league lol. 

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1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

You mean the Seattle that is 2 points back of Vegas for the Pacific Division lead, and with two games in hand? That Seattle?

I'm talking about first year Seattle, obviously. Cammi Granato switched ships prior to this season under JR.

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Just now, Dazzle said:

I'm talking about first year Seattle, obviously. Cammi Granato switched ships prior to this season under JR.

Yet she leaves and Seattle and in year two shows actually what it can do. 

I think there's more than enough blame to go around just to make Cammi a scapegoat. 

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Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

Doesn't matter who the GM is. 

Benning has painted us into a corner. 

Brock and JT contracts haven't helped anything. 

The other signings have been ok. 

It's almost like Benning is still running the show. 

 

Benning didn't paint the team into a corner. This management who re-signed Miller did. They absolutely had the chance to trade him for futures. Despite how good they were with the UFA signings, they spent money as if we were a playoff team. They did not save any cap space in case we could pick up players on waivers.

 

More importantly, they did not plan to fail.

 

Failure to plan = planning to fail

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40 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Can this board stop changing sentiment for every other game?

 

When I was writing, don't be too positive this team should go into rebuild, that was 8 games ago 6-2 vs SJS, I get bashed for continuing to advocating rebuild lol.. 

 

Now after a string of horrible losses everyone's suddenly looking at what's in the top 4 draft pick. Most frickle fans in the league lol. 

Don't paint everyone here with one brush strokes. Loads of peeps on here were full tank way before last Christmas.

 

You see posters that come out of the back woods during wins and also those that come out only after losses. Individuals on here are not flip flopping. 

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Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

Yet she leaves and Seattle and in year two shows actually what it can do. 

I think there's more than enough blame to go around just to make Cammi a scapegoat. 

Granato was hired by Seattle in the first season. They had a disastrous year mixed in with a bad expansion draft. After she left, Seattle filled the void.

 

Granato was hired by Vancouver early on, and as such, this is proof that she had some responsibility for the state of this team.

 

Maybe Granato had a different idea of what this team was supposed to be, but it doesn't matter. Two bad teams in a row and she was part of management for both. Not a coincidence, imo.

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6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Yet she leaves and Seattle and in year two shows actually what it can do. 

I think there's more than enough blame to go around just to make Cammi a scapegoat. 

I agree Cami is the least of management's problem. Even Castongay has more drama with the 'human rights' lawsuit. Cami also at least ain't a JR nepotism hire. 

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Just now, Dazzle said:

Benning didn't paint the team into a corner. This management who re-signed Miller did. They absolutely had the chance to trade him for futures. Despite how good they were with the UFA signings, they spent money as if we were a playoff team. They did not save any cap space in case we could pick up players on waivers.

 

More importantly, they did not plan to fail.

 

Failure to plan = planning to fail

I would argue the OEL contract has. 

There would have been one more season the team would be free and clear and a lot of salary would have been off the books.

But he gives up a top 10 first, brings in Garland and OEL. 

No one is going to touch OEL so we're stuck with him.

His signing of players prior to the bubble killed our salary cap. 

So he let's Tanev and Toffoli go. 

Benning was patching and creating new holes all the time.

 

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1 minute ago, 24K PureCool said:

I agree Cami is the least of management's problem. Even Castongay has more drama with the 'human rights' lawsuit. She also at least ain't a JR nepotism hire. 

The hirings are part of this mess.

 

Management brought in these people to bring in fresh ideas. Do we see fresh ideas at all? I don't think so. Management made lots of mistakes, and most of these were probably due to poor planning. Was it inexperience? Was it ego?

 

Rachel Doerrie was a terrible hire from day 1. Anyone who was aware of her online presence was NOT happy with this hire. She had a lot of red flags that management just didn't seem to be aware of. Yikes.

 

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1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I would argue the OEL contract has. 

There would have been one more season the team would be free and clear and a lot of salary would have been off the books.

But he gives up a top 10 first, brings in Garland and OEL. 

No one is going to touch OEL so we're stuck with him.

His signing of players prior to the bubble killed our salary cap. 

So he let's Tanev and Toffoli go. 

Benning was patching and creating new holes all the time.

 

The salary cap was actually freed up.

What does this management do? We spent more than most teams during UFA. It seemed that management was preparing this team to be playoff bound. That wasn't on Benning. That's on current management not assessing this team properly.

 

Did current management upgrade defense? Not at all. They made two trades: Bear (a good one) and Stillman.

 

What is our team struggling with? Defense.

 

The real blame should really go to Gillis, to be perfectly honest. If we had the depth from the draft picks, we may or may not have spent money on UFAs and/or made dumb trades.

 

The costliest trade wasn't the OEL one. It's the Forsling one. He's proven himself to burn the Canucks every single time he's here. Most importantly, we could've used him.

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10 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I would argue the OEL contract has. 

There would have been one more season the team would be free and clear and a lot of salary would have been off the books.

But he gives up a top 10 first, brings in Garland and OEL. 

No one is going to touch OEL so we're stuck with him.

His signing of players prior to the bubble killed our salary cap. 

So he let's Tanev and Toffoli go. 

Benning was patching and creating new holes all the time.

 

I blame Tanev and Toffoli leaving more on Aqua than JB. The owner cheaped out during the pandemic preventing Benning from having money to navigate through creating cap to re-sign those two. 

 

Though JB shouldn't have put himself in that poilsition to start with so I say 70% on Aqua and 30% on Jimbo. 

Edited by 24K PureCool
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4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

The hirings are part of this mess.

 

Management brought in these people to bring in fresh ideas. Do we see fresh ideas at all? I don't think so. Management made lots of mistakes, and most of these were probably due to poor planning. Was it inexperience? Was it ego?

 

Rachel Doerrie was a terrible hire from day 1. Anyone who was aware of her online presence was NOT happy with this hire. She had a lot of red flags that management just didn't seem to be aware of. Yikes.

 

I meant Cami there not Rachel. 

 

Anyways JR went too far in his diversity campaign and created an environment where there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

Kind of explains the paralysis of this team. Too many differing opinions leads to stagnation especially if Allvin is one of those consensus builder manager.  

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4 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

I meant Cami there not Rachel. 

 

Anyways JR went too far in his diversity campaign and created an environment where there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

Kind of explains the paralysis of this team. Too many differing opinions leads to stagnation especially if Allvin is one of those consensus builder manager.  

Cami is part of this. She is responsible for THIS iteration of the team, which includes hiring Rachel. Cami is assistant GM.

 

And I agree, Allvin looks like he is a newbie and absentee GM. JR is the voice of the GM, but is kinda retired? Don't know what's going on here, but this mess is everyone's fault.

 

None of them were present at the STH meeting, which is just BAD. As I mentioned before, Cami was partly responsible for year one Seattle (bad). She comes over to this team and look what happens. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but that's two bad teams in a row.

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Just my opinion. 

 

Too early.  I have some anxiety over this medical handling issue!  We'll see what comes of that. And if management, for which Rutherford is responsible, had any blame. 

 

I don't panic, otherwise, any of the moves management have made.  I don't like that defense was not prioritized!  Mikheyev & Lazar were billed by some as improving our defense, by having better defensive forwards?  I never bought that.  However, some things are opportunity driven the chance may not have been there. I did not like Miller's re-signing.  I also did not like his acquisition.  But again I don't know if we had the opportunity to move him.  Still, we had other priorities before spending $60 mill on him. And we had until this deadline to move him. Not everything perfect, the last a clear mistake IMO...

 

I LOVE the acquisition of Kuzmenko. He is what you come to pay and see. I like Dakota Joshua.  I like that Hoglander & Podkolzin are in Abby. If they are not killing it, development is a better priority.  Even if they ''made'' the team out of camp.  I like that Abby is doing well! To me, it also suggests that, cough remember when Jake was sent down & we had Megna / Chaput, signal LOUD & CLEAR that we are actually re-tooling. Living down, plan to live through the bad contracts, which is what is badly required. 

 

And the rumors about Bruce's departure relate to us not adding the development and structure needed. I don't disagree, as much as, There it Was, our run last Spring was fun.

 

Vancouver fans are fair-weather fans.  Fans say they want a rebuild, but the town riots, and everybody bitches and moans when we lose. Example, this thread. We were going to lose with Myers as our best RHD.  We are going to lose with Studnika, Dries, Pederson. & Corey Stillman. That is REBUILDING / Re-TOOLING

 

Does it have to be said out loud?

 

       

 

  

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Just my opinion. 

 

Too early.  I have some anxiety over this medical handling issue!  We'll see what comes of that. And if management, for which Rutherford is responsible, had any blame. 

 

I don't panic, otherwise, any of the moves management have made.  I don't like that defense was not prioritized!  Mikheyev & Lazar were billed by some as improving our defense, by having better defensive forwards?  I never bought that.  However, some things are opportunity driven the chance may not have been there. I did not like Miller's re-signing.  I also did not like his acquisition.  But again I don't know if we had the opportunity to move him.  Still, we had other priorities before spending $60 mill on him. And we had until this deadline to move him. Not everything perfect, the last a clear mistake IMO...

 

I LOVE the acquisition of Kuzmenko. He is what you come to pay and see. I like Dakota Joshua.  I like that Hoglander & Podkolzin are in Abby. If they are not killing it, development is a better priority.  Even if they ''made'' the team out of camp.  I like that Abby is doing well! To me, it also suggests that, cough remember when Jake was sent down & we had Megna / Chaput, signal LOUD & CLEAR that we are actually re-tooling. Living down, plan to live through the bad contracts, which is what is badly required. 

 

And the rumors about Bruce's departure relate to us not adding the development and structure needed. I don't disagree, as much as, There it Was, our run last Spring was fun.

 

Vancouver fans are fair-weather fans.  Fans say they want a rebuild, but the town riots, and everybody bitches and moans when we lose. Example, this thread. We were going to lose with Myers as our best RHD.  We are going to lose with Studnika, Dries, Pederson. & Corey Stillman. That is REBUILDING / Re-TOOLING

 

Does it have to be said out loud?

 

       

 

  

 

 

Oh jeez, I know Ryan Stillman is bad at D, but if we bring back a 50 year vet, that is really a big brain move.

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7 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

Ive thought for awhile Ill be patient till the TDL / off season.  Allvin has problems inherited from the previous roster, decisions made before was hired (I do think it’s fair to say PA didnt get to choose his coach) but a lot of problems created as well.  

 

So Im still on the fence at this point.

If these guys are indeed moving on from Horvat are you comfortable with these guys making such a franchise changing move?

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Cleaning management out this offseason wouldn't be an embarrassment, it'd be the right decision. I hope FA bites his bride and just cleans house, starts from scratch. What would be more embarassing is sticking to the same process, likely lose a couple of good players, fire the coach and keep a very similar squad going into next year for more of the same thing.

 

We have such a good forward group, good injured goalie and pathetic defence. We are a couple of smart trades away from becoming a playoff team (ie. Getting a couple of top 4 defencemen) or a couple of trades away from starting a proper rebuild and gaining some great picks and prospects. However right now when the team needed it, management's done neither.

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Too early. Things take time.

 

Not a good start but if they clear space space, tank and get bedard and hire a decent coach NEXT year then i'll be on board. If they did a mid-season change to tocchet, push for wins and draft crap then i'd want a clean slate.

Edited by OldFaithfulCap
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