Fire Rutherford & Allvin

[ktcy2]

Stop blaming all of this mess on benning. He had 8 years in the helm and out of all the moves he made the only real long term damage was OEL. Now the new group should come in to fix that mess. No, they didn’t. All they did was add to the fire by pouring in gasoline. This is completely unacceptable. Rick Tocchet, the incompetent coach is coming in. I can’t believe how bad we are as a team. That starts with picking the right management and JR was the worst out of all the possible candidates out there to come in. An old man retiring bringing in all his friends so he can collect his pay cheque doing nothing. What a bummer this  has been. If you think Rick Tocchet can coach us into a playoff position you are insane. 

[ilduce39]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

The problems he inherited are short term, a season or two at the most.  They had an easy path to follow after JB and they botched it hard, by their own hand.  They have no one to blame but themselves.......as hard as they try to deflect the blame onto JB

No kidding.
 

Expiring deal on Boeser,  Year and a half left on Bo and Miller plus the Ferland Deal.  Half a year to dropping some buyout money for Holtby and Virtanen. 2 years on Myers. 
 

For taking over a struggling group, they had a lot of cap flexibility but shot themselves in the foot by immediately signing Mikheyev, Boeser and Miller to 20 million worth of contract.  
 

25% of the cap.
 

For 3 wingers.  

[24K PureCool]

14 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Yes.

 

Timing is everything with cap space it's not just OEL. It's Sbisa making us lose Hamhuis, Myers forcing out space for Tanev. It's Loui/Roussel/Beagle forcing us to walk away from Toffoli....JB just had a knack for loading up cap space at the wrong time.  

 

ignoring the damage Benning has done to this franchise not only from a locker room culture standpoint (losing leaders like edler, Tanev for nothing), front office standpoint,(Weisbrod's nepotism , letting Brackett/Burnstein/Gilman go) salary cap construction, prospect pool (picking just twice in the first two rounds in 3 years, 10oa and 12+ mil in cap for a deadweight OEL and underperformed Garland.) It's more disingenuous to forget taking that into context.

 

So yes. This management team gets a little more time from me. But not much. 

 

It's amazing how hyperfocused people are that they dug the hole five feet deeper when they started in a fifty foot trench. This is misplaced frustration over the realization that the last decade didn't work out. 

 

Of course, it probably doesnt matter who to blame, JR or JB as long as Aqua is the owner. Because even if they are fired. Will anyone competent and qualified even want to work under Aqua?

 

No

 

Miller re-signing is not a 5 feed hole in a 50 feet trench. It is another 30 feet trench. If it was only Boeser than sure 5 feet hole, inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 

 

But that aside, it is the constant drama that is more infuriating than anything else. This management just can't stop getting themselves into controversy making the while franchise look like absolute clowns. 

[Alflives]

Just now, ktcy2 said:

Stop blaming all of this mess on benning. He had 8 years in the helm and out of all the moves he made the only real long term damage was OEL. Now the new group should come in to fix that mess. No, they didn’t. All they did was add to the fire by pouring in gasoline. This is completely unacceptable. Rick Tocchet, the incompetent coach is coming in. I can’t believe how bad we are as a team. That starts with picking the right management and JR was the worst out of all the possible candidates out there to come in. An old man retiring bringing in all his friends so he can collect his pay cheque doing nothing. What a bummer this  has been. If you think Rick Tocchet can coach us into a playoff position you are insane. 

What?  OEL isn’t the only mistake.  Garland.  Boeser’s QO.  Myers. Ferland.  Capped out.  No picks.  Few prospects.  It’s a long list.  It’s actually what a team would look like that’s been at the top of the league and competing for the Cup.  So, Benning made moves like our team was competing for the Cup.  

But IMHAO our owner was pushing Benning to make short sighted moves in hopes of growing a winner quickly.  Benning was the perfect puppet.  He did as told.  

[Timråfan]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I'm fine with it, I think JB did a much better job and had a far clearer plan

Nah, he didn't have a plan hence the OEL trade.

 

Miller and Boeser is the only questionmarks regarding players and their contracts is standards in the league. 

So I don't have any problem with them and I don't want Miller and Petey on the same team.

 

[DSVII]

1 minute ago, 24K PureCool said:

No

 

Miller re-signing is not a 5 feed hole in a 50 feet trench. It is another 30 feet trench. If it was only Boeser than sure 5 feet hole, inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. 

 

But that aside, it is the constant drama that is more infuriating than anything else. This management just can't stop getting themselves into controversy making the while franchise look like absolute clowns. 

I think that's an exagerration. At least from what we see today. The cap is going to go up a few mil in a few years making contracts like JT more palpable.  It's whether his level of play really tails off. Of course we made a similar prognostication to justify OEL and Myers cap hits in favor of Benning so I can see how it'll sour quickly.

 

For the record I wanted him gone.

 

I mean if we wanna look like clowns. How about the Tampering charges Benning got laid on. Throwing Linden under the bus. The absence of leadership shown during the covid infection in 2021, where JT had to step up and get the league to cancel the games. ."Living day to day". Not communicating with pending UFAs. 

 

The managerial embarrassment of this franchise dates back before this regime.

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Nah, he didn't have a plan hence the OEL trade.

 

Miller and Boeser is the only questionmarks regarding players and their contracts is standards in the league. 

So I don't have any problem with them and I don't want Miller and Petey on the same team.

 

Of course he did or most of the deals he made (and gets flak for) expires in a year two, just when the young core will be starting their prime years.  That's called a plan.

 

I have zero issues with the OEL/Garland trade.  Both guys are solid players and they gave up very little to get them.

[24K PureCool]

4 minutes ago, DSVII said:

I think that's an exagerration. At least from what we see today. The cap is going to go up a few mil in a few years making contracts like JT more palpable.  It's whether his level of play really tails off. Of course we made a similar prognostication to justify OEL and Myers cap hits in favor of Benning so I can see how it'll sour quickly.

 

For the record I wanted him gone.

 

I mean if we wanna look like clowns. How about the Tampering charges Benning got laid on. Throwing Linden under the bus. The absence of leadership shown during the covid infection in 2021, where JT had to step up and get the league to cancel the games. ."Living day to day". Not communicating with pending UFAs. 

 

The managerial embarrassment of this franchise dates back before this regime.

Yes but those management embarrassment under Benning was spread out over 8 years. 

 

What we see right now is a constant barrage of drama one year in.  

[DSVII]

4 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

Yes but those management embarrassment under Benning was spread out over 8 years. 

 

What we see right now is a constant barrage of drama one year in.  

I think what we're seeing now is just the culmination of the degradation of the organizational habits that started at the end of Sedin era. Decline isn't linear. Just because it's more visible now doesn't mean it wasn't festering unnoticed before. The groundwork was certainly laid when we saw the departures of qualified front office staff under Benning.

 

I do agree though this is an embarassing string of news and something needs to change now. And this even has shades of Cody Hodgson when it comes to our medical staff evaluation. 

 

Again I think this goes back to ownership. They spend to the cap but are infamous for cutting costs everywhere else. 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by DSVII

[van_ws]

Bring back Gillis. Best GM this team has ever had other than Pat.  Can't be any worse than the bums in charge now.

[hammertime]

What boggles my mind is asset management. 

 

Millers Value was all time high. Career year they don't sell.....? Like really?????

 

Brock is Brock I think @EddieVedder and I slung enough mud at Brock last year before his extension.  He's a great team mate and a great guy. He is a super cerebral player who has been able to adapt to losing his shot, by gaining weight and collecting garbage around the net. But the reality is it's a cold winning driven business and he isn't able or willing to do enough else away from the puck to warrant anything close to 6.65m. Could they have gotten anything at all for him last year? do we have to pay to move him this year?   

 

Horvat this one is tough because they if they had any sense should have extended him las year but this year he is tipping the scales. I think the return on him at the DL should outweigh what he will cost to re sign. 

 

Kuzzmenko again his value will never be higher. Cash out he want's 6M please for the love of gawd don't!   

 

I think they had their opportunity and chose to have cake and eat it by doubling down on the FWDs.    

Edited January 15, 2023 by hammertime

[112]

Naw. Let's let it go. Rutherford is an exceptional GM.

[tas]

5 minutes ago, 112 said:

Naw. Let's let it go. Rutherford is an exceptional GM.

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

Nah, he didn't have a plan hence the OEL trade.

 

Miller and Boeser is the only questionmarks regarding players and their contracts is standards in the league. 

So I don't have any problem with them and I don't want Miller and Petey on the same team.

 

Lol addressing the D?? Adding a top 6 winger who consistently drew tons of penalties??? 
 

No instead JR and PA knew Demko was bailing us out and instead of bolstering the blueline.. “we’re going to be a fast team to play against” “we’re going to add speed” 

lmfao

[MeanSeanBean]

2 hours ago, ktcy2 said:

Stop blaming all of this mess on benning. He had 8 years in the helm and out of all the moves he made the only real long term damage was OEL. Now the new group should come in to fix that mess. No, they didn’t. All they did was add to the fire by pouring in gasoline. This is completely unacceptable. Rick Tocchet, the incompetent coach is coming in. I can’t believe how bad we are as a team. That starts with picking the right management and JR was the worst out of all the possible candidates out there to come in. An old man retiring bringing in all his friends so he can collect his pay cheque doing nothing. What a bummer this  has been. If you think Rick Tocchet can coach us into a playoff position you are insane. 

Do you not count no cap space, a bottom 5 prospect pool, and a complete loss in faith from the team and fans alike damage? I do.

[ktcy2]

14 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Do you not count no cap space, a bottom 5 prospect pool, and a complete loss in faith from the team and fans alike damage? I do.

I am not saying benning was good. He was just what he was, below average. Trades were crap, free agent signings were crap. But I just can’t stand the idea that this Rutherford team is coming in to save the day and how. How much better they are and how they are supposed to right the ship with their expertise or whatever. No, they are not better. If any thing they are worse.

[Alflives]

Just now, ktcy2 said:

I am not saying benning was good. He was just what he was, below average. Trades were crap, free agent signings were crap. But I just can’t stand the idea that this Rutherford team is coming in to save the day and how. How much better they are and how they are supposed to right the ship with their expertise or whatever. No, they are not better. If any thing they are worse.

Our owner has a very large publicity department.  They spin hires, signings, and trades to get the fans excited.  Sells seats. 

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, ktcy2 said:

I am not saying benning was good. He was just what he was, below average. Trades were crap, free agent signings were crap. But I just can’t stand the idea that this Rutherford team is coming in to save the day and how. How much better they are and how they are supposed to right the ship with their expertise or whatever. No, they are not better. If any thing they are worse.

Benning got this team into the majority of mess it's in. So far, JR and Alvin have only added to that mess. Both things can be true. But you said to stop blaming Benning, and I don't agree with that at all. Benning is to blame for a ton of the issues with this franchise.

[ktcy2]

GM search - No search at all, Alvin got the job as Rutherford’s AGM in Pittsburg. No transparency on the hiring process. 
 

Coach search - no search at all. Job gifted to Tocchet due to the Pittsburg connection. 
 

castlnguay and granato - they were clearly, mind you, clearly, brought in to fill the roles so no one would challenge them. These women are used to fill their roles so no other hockey voices 

 

boeser - complete lack of foresight to sign this guy. Good managers make tough decisions such as not resigning a certain player if it doesn’t make sense. Nope, couldn’t make the right move just because they had to take the safe route. 
 

Stillman - wasted a second. Nuff said. 
 

JR’s incompetency blamed on coaching - structure this structure that. Their philosophy is basically you don’t need good defensemen. This was literally what they said. Not even paraphrasing. Does this coincide with the current group being the worst defense in the league? You think? 
 

I can go on 

[Dazzle]

2 hours ago, Shayster007 said:

Benning got this team into the majority of mess it's in. So far, JR and Alvin have only added to that mess. Both things can be true. But you said to stop blaming Benning, and I don't agree with that at all. Benning is to blame for a ton of the issues with this franchise.

No one forced JR/Allvin to re-sign Miller. The new management literally had the chance to rebuild into the future.

All the good pieces are on this team (Hughes, Pettersson, Demko), and what does new management do? Locks us up like we are a playoff team.

 

The failure of this new management was not being able to assess what they had. Sure, Benning may have messed this team up, but new management kept the status quo for defense WHILE buying players through UFA.