If Management sign a new Coach, then we know the Ownership group is interfering

[*Buzzsaw*]

There is no logic to signing a new coach and hoping for a bump miracle that will squeak the team into the playoffs.

 

Canucks are missing their #1 goalie, their defense is a mess and the chances of a playoff position are close to zero... even if they did make it in, they'd die in the first round, probably in 4 games.

 

Any competent management team will know it is a worthless move.

 

If management does sign a new coach, then we definitely know the Ownership group is interfering.

 

Then it would be clear they are prepared to sacrifice the future of a decent pick for a couple home playoff games.  If they are that desperate for revenue, then they should sell the team.

 

Ownership has to bite the bullet, think long term and let management make the moves which give them CAP space and options for next year.

[Ghostsof1915]

Or the players have tuned the coaching staff out, and it's making a bad situation worse. 

 

Personally just ride out the season. 

 

Start making changes before or at the TDL. See how the team does with bodies being moved out. 

 

Then hire a real coach, not Tocchet. 

 

I'd even take a gamble on Phil Housley. It would tick off Calgary. And at least he can teach defence. 

[Alflives]

Owner went to Vegas to meet with Tocchet. Not sure that’s interfering, but more needing to talk to the guy JR has wanted for the job since he arrived.  

[Angry Goose]

Why do you assume its about getting a bump?

 

I think its more about hitting the ground running for next year/getting a plan in place and trying to mitigate a toxic work environment.  

 

There has been numerous reports that ownership has no hand in hiring/firing the coach-JR has full autonomy if/when.

[DrJockitch]

I hope they are essentially working on the staff for next year. 
‘JR made it clear he has given up on this year. I think he is happy to let Bruce finish his deal and bring in the crew he has assembled at the end of the season. 

[Provost]

… or the President always wanted to hire Tocchet after last season, but was surprised when he was told Boudreau had another year.

 

It could well be the opposite and the only reason we haven’t already had a coaching change is interference from ownership not wanting to pay for 3 head coaches and a bunch of assistants who aren’t working for the team.

[grumpyone]

fire the assistant coaches, keep Boudreau 

[NUCKER67]

32 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

If management does sign a new coach, then we definitely know the Ownership group is interfering.

No we don't. Hiring a new Coach will cost the owner, and so will buying out a player this offseason. JR had seen enough (a year) watching Boudreau to know he was out of answers and the team wasn't responding. Boudreau wasn't their hire either, so naturally they want to get their guys to coach. The owner wants a winning team and specifically hired JR to run the team. This is JR's decision. He's trying to win games.  

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

I always saw Bruce Boudreau as a short-term coach. It’s too early to tell, but I don’t see Rick Tocchet as a long-term fit, either. I would rather see them be patient, do their due diligence and pick someone that would be a long-term fit.

[rawkdrummer]

I disagree with OP

[Crabcakes]

I don't understand the narrative of ownership trying to avoid paying for another coach or desperately trying to get into the playoffs for the revenue.  It just doesn't go along with their willingness to spend money on facilities, expanding management staff, and moving their AHL club to the West Coast.   Ownership has willingly spent money IF they have felt that it would do the team good in the long term.

 

The owner certainly approves strategy as they should but that doesn't mean that they are coming up with it.  Rutherford made a point of saying that ownership doesn't meddle.  He doesn't strike me as a man who tells lies.

 

This is the best draft in more than a decade.  If they're going to do poorly, let's go with it.  We know that they're going to be sellers at the deadline which is certainly not going to improve play.  The only thing that might help the teams record is that their schedule is relatively easy after this week.

[lmm]

 

I voted yes

Travis Green

[lmm]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Or the players have tuned the coaching staff out, and it's making a bad situation worse. 

 

Personally just ride out the season. 

 

Start making changes before or at the TDL. See how the team does with bodies being moved out. 

 

Then hire a real coach, not Tocchet. 

 

I'd even take a gamble on Phil Housley. It would tick off Calgary. And at least he can teach defence. 

.haha, put a ball cap on that guy and you can't tell them apart

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I don't understand the narrative of ownership trying to avoid paying for another coach or desperately trying to get into the playoffs for the revenue.  It just doesn't go along with their willingness to spend money on facilities, expanding management staff, and moving their AHL club to the West Coast.   Ownership has willingly spent money IF they have felt that it would do the team good in the long term.

 

The owner certainly approves strategy as they should but that doesn't mean that they are coming up with it.  Rutherford made a point of saying that ownership doesn't meddle.  He doesn't strike me as a man who tells lies.

 

This is the best draft in more than a decade.  If they're going to do poorly, let's go with it.  We know that they're going to be sellers at the deadline which is certainly not going to improve play.  The only thing that might help the teams record is that their schedule is relatively easy after this week.

Depends on one’s definition of “meddle”?  Does our owner get his nose into the hockey ops of the specifics in trade return?  No.  But does our owner set the direction to define the parameters of what the trade return should look like?  Absolutely. Hence the Allvin comments this club is not going to make rebuilding moves.  And JR’ comments they are looking for returns that have NHL guys who are coming off underwhelming ELCs that have upside.  That’s our owner’s direction.  Has been since he bought the team.  So he’s not meddling in the actual trades, but he set the what the return must be.  JR has autonomy within those guidelines.  So JR isn’t lying.  He’s just not saying he’s restricted by the owner’s direction in what he can focus on in return for trades.  

[Toews]

18 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I don't understand the narrative of ownership trying to avoid paying for another coach or desperately trying to get into the playoffs for the revenue.  It just doesn't go along with their willingness to spend money on facilities, expanding management staff, and moving their AHL club to the West Coast.   Ownership has willingly spent money IF they have felt that it would do the team good in the long term.

Spending is relative, how much is ownership spending out of its pocket, ie. what does their profit margin look like? How much are they spending out of their pocket compared to other NHL organizations? I don't expect our owner to spend like Toronto, New York, Montreal etc., but relative to market size how much are they spending? Its difficult to answer those questions based on the information that is available publicly. We have not made any high profile hires at President of Hockey Operations, GMs, HCs, maybe Tortorella was our most expensive coaching hire. It seems our ownership group is happy to spend money when it stays on the ice but off of it that remains a question mark. I also remember Benning remarking that it was a difficult conversation with the owner when it came down to sending a player with a relatively high salary down to the minors.

 

People ragged on Eugene Melnyk for being "cheap" but he needed to be considering the size of the Ottawa market, now of course Melnyk took it a step too far, like yelling at players for their Uber bills lol. Don't think our owner is quite on that level but money is a consideration. FWIW the Canucks ranked 14th on the most Forbes list, and just recently crossed the 1bil mark, and that's with the team not performing nearly as well on the ice over the last several years. At their peak which I believe was around 2011/2012, they were as high as 7 or 8. 

[ilduce39]

3 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

Why do you assume its about getting a bump?

 

I think its more about hitting the ground running for next year/getting a plan in place and trying to mitigate a toxic work environment.  

 

There has been numerous reports that ownership has no hand in hiring/firing the coach-JR has full autonomy if/when.

People are so short sighted.  It happened last year so it’ll happen again!

Not with Martin and Delia in net.

[Crabcakes]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Depends on one’s definition of “meddle”?  Does our owner get his nose into the hockey ops of the specifics in trade return?  No.  But does our owner set the direction to define the parameters of what the trade return should look like?  Absolutely. Hence the Allvin comments this club is not going to make rebuilding moves.  And JR’ comments they are looking for returns that have NHL guys who are coming off underwhelming ELCs that have upside.  That’s our owner’s direction.  Has been since he bought the team.  So he’s not meddling in the actual trades, but he set the what the return must be.  JR has autonomy within those guidelines.  So JR isn’t lying.  He’s just not saying he’s restricted by the owner’s direction in what he can focus on in return for trades.  

Ya, that comment (that JR made) bothered me to be honest.  When he said that he was going to be looking for players who were running out of time on their ELC and not yet a regular NHL player sounded like Benning.  How did that work out.  Ask Sven Baertschi, Linden Vey etc  It didnt.  Somebody said that Gillis used to do that.  I didnt really pay enough attention back then to notice.  Was that a Gillis thing

 

[Crabcakes]

2 hours ago, Toews said:

Spending is relative, how much is ownership spending out of its pocket, ie. what does their profit margin look like? How much are they spending out of their pocket compared to other NHL organizations? I don't expect our owner to spend like Toronto, New York, Montreal etc., but relative to market size how much are they spending? Its difficult to answer those questions based on the information that is available publicly. We have not made any high profile hires at President of Hockey Operations, GMs, HCs, maybe Tortorella was our most expensive coaching hire. It seems our ownership group is happy to spend money when it stays on the ice but off of it that remains a question mark. I also remember Benning remarking that it was a difficult conversation with the owner when it came down to sending a player with a relatively high salary down to the minors.

 

People ragged on Eugene Melnyk for being "cheap" but he needed to be considering the size of the Ottawa market, now of course Melnyk took it a step too far, like yelling at players for their Uber bills lol. Don't think our owner is quite on that level but money is a consideration. FWIW the Canucks ranked 14th on the most Forbes list, and just recently crossed the 1bil mark, and that's with the team not performing nearly as well on the ice over the last several years. At their peak which I believe was around 2011/2012, they were as high as 7 or 8. 

Good points.  But they are clearly spending more than they were.  Granted, there were cutbacks during covid

[King Heffy]

4 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

Why do you assume its about getting a bump?

 

I think its more about hitting the ground running for next year/getting a plan in place and trying to mitigate a toxic work environment.  

 

There has been numerous reports that ownership has no hand in hiring/firing the coach-JR has full autonomy if/when.

Rutherford is the root cause of the toxic environment and the convicted felon he wants as a coach won't help either.  

[I.Am.Ironman]

4 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

Why do you assume its about getting a bump?

 

I think its more about hitting the ground running for next year/getting a plan in place and trying to mitigate a toxic work environment.  

 

There has been numerous reports that ownership has no hand in hiring/firing the coach-JR has full autonomy if/when.

Because that worked for us this year