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It Is Time For A Fan Representative To Sit At The Table, Inclusion.

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ToTellTheTruth

An Advocate for Fans, Yes or No?  

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1 minute ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Where do they ever answer to fans? Season ticket holder meetings? Those folks who put out 20 g's a year? Nope they ignored them.

The idea is to get an answer and be able to ask the tough questions without worrying about losing a job.

How many teams have fans to their meetings/ press conferences? 

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1 minute ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Where do they ever answer to fans? Season ticket holder meetings? Those folks who put out 20 g's a year? Nope they ignored them.

The idea is to get an answer and be able to ask the tough questions without worrying about losing a job.

They would have their lawyers present etc. They lose their jobs they still get paid the next 3-5 years because they signed contracts. How many times do you see the important questions just get deflected and not answered, this would be no difference. 

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13 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Forums are for fans, media pressers are for them to explain stuff. Has there ever been a forum where a GM or management person has answered the easiest question fans have posted? Ever?

 

Professionals can be controlled just ask Jeff Pattersson who was banned from media pressers, a Fan Advocate banning would be news worthy around the world

 

Exactly, fan forums are for fans. I love CDC but I would trust like 2 people here to have any sort of meaningful interaction with professionals. 

 

Fans are given the chance to error their grievances through the media on the postgame. It's more often then not a shot show when you allow the average fan to speak freely on a microphone and pretty cringe inducing to listen to. I would expect what your suggesting to be no different.

 

Fans have no business talking to executives. The media is the middle man between the people and the bigs. That's why you can call and text in to multiple different programs to have that dialogue.

 

Fans simply do not understand the complex going ons of what it takes to run a billion dollar organization like the Canucks.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

no thx you and i and he and they have different opinions.. so are you representing me? him? her? or yourself?

Of course but not all fans want the team sold, extremist and already happened in the past. 

 

There is no way any person could represent every crack pot idea. But some questions could be pursued and answered or ignored but that would be telling too.

 

Whoever thought that trying to get fan input would be ridiculed by any fan especially ones that bother to post.

 

There are opinions common to every one, like is there a plan. The are ways to ask questions or represent fans without expressing personal opinions about individuals hate or disgust. 

 

An example might be Myers, a lightening rod since he got here mostly because a stupid GM over paid him and then put him in a no win position as a top 2 player. His salary is not his fault regardless of his play. Ditto with what happened with Eriksson. Even OEL now is being asked to play a different game than he has ever played. He didn't get that contract because he played like Tanev or Edler, he got that because he was THE PP quarter back and didn't play much on the PK. But trading for him was a disaster but not his fault, the stupid GM.

 

An advocate would not attack or place all the blame on ONE or TWO players. Some are just not good enough.

Same with coaches.

 

 

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I'm sure the team has staff reading these very forums to get a feel for what the fan base wants. There's a ton of ideas posted all the time by some pretty hard-core and knowledgeable people who probably spend way too much time thinking about hockey. I think finding a single person to represent the fans is a non-starter. But if it had to be someone... it'd be Vintage Canuck. He'd announce trades to the team that they haven't even made yet!

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12 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said:

They would have their lawyers present etc. They lose their jobs they still get paid the next 3-5 years because they signed contracts. How many times do you see the important questions just get deflected and not answered, this would be no difference. 

No they don't. Media folks that get canned have almost no work place protection. 

Questions get deflected because the pro's don't want to lose their jobs and quite often there is enough for them to put in their programs with half answers, that actually works better for a lot of programs, to be able to exploit the gray areas

9 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Exactly, fan forums are for fans. I love CDC but I would trust like 2 people here to have any sort of meaningful interaction with professionals. 

 

Fans are given the chance to error their grievances through the media on the postgame. It's more often then not a shot show when you allow the average fan to speak freely on a microphone and pretty cringe inducing to listen to. I would expect what your suggesting to be no different.

 

Fans have no business talking to executives. The media is the middle man between the people and the bigs. That's why you can call and text in to multiple different programs to have that dialogue.

 

Fans simply do not understand the complex going ons of what it takes to run a billion dollar organization like the Canucks.

 

 

People vote for politicians all the time, most of those have their own agenda's.

 

Meaningful interactions would be mostly along the lines of what the media types ask already but answering a fan is different than giving a person the message to give fans.

 

No offence but I laugh at what people think aa GM does or how a hockey team is different than most businesses that deal with the public, charities too.

 

Fans are NOT lesser humans, less educated in fact quite often have higher educations, know less than the stick boy. That kind of thinking is what keeps teams in the bottom and filling arenas. 

 

Sell a player instead of a game, sell a game instead of a season, sell hope of a prospect instead play on the ice

 

The number of company folks will be counted they will rush to stifle any concept of fans having a voice

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12 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

No they don't. Media folks that get canned have almost no work place protection. 

Questions get deflected because the pro's don't want to lose their jobs and quite often there is enough for them to put in their programs with half answers, that actually works better for a lot of programs, to be able to exploit the gray areas

People vote for politicians all the time, most of those have their own agenda's.

 

Meaningful interactions would be mostly along the lines of what the media types ask already but answering a fan is different than giving a person the message to give fans.

 

No offence but I laugh at what people think aa GM does or how a hockey team is different than most businesses that deal with the public, charities too.

 

Fans are NOT lesser humans, less educated in fact quite often have higher educations, know less than the stick boy. That kind of thinking is what keeps teams in the bottom and filling arenas. 

 

Sell a player instead of a game, sell a game instead of a season, sell hope of a prospect instead play on the ice

 

The number of company folks will be counted they will rush to stifle any concept of fans having a voice

Yeah I just think this is a terrible idea no matter how you try to justify it though. I dig you thinking outside the box though, but this takes just seems really entitled. 

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50 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Forums are for fans, media pressers are for them to explain stuff. Has there ever been a forum where a GM or management person has answered the easiest question fans have posted? Ever?

 

Professionals can be controlled just ask Jeff Pattersson who was banned from media pressers, a Fan Advocate banning would be news worthy around the world

 

You lost all credibility when you used he who shall not be named and professional in the same sentence.

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1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

The team this year is about inclusion so why not the most important participant?

 

There are advantage to a non paid fan representative, they could ask the really hard questions without worrying about losing their job.

 

The media, some of them, are doing a fairly decent to good job expressing fan angst but to management this might just be part of their schtick to create a following.

 

Rutherford has been pretty open but some of the questions while tough stop short. 

 

Questions about cap space, okay it is tough being capped out but with retention the Canuck existing spent cap space can be shared or lent to another trade partner. This is okay when a team is "building" but not if a team is a WIN NOW group.

 

What is the end goal, the target?, What is the expected window? A one and done cup appearance? Don't specify players but why would their choices be different than the previous 40 years of the same choices? Are they aware that for the most part the best players this team has ever had were selected in the first round of the draft? Linden, Sedins, Bourdon (RIP), Horvat, Pettersson etc... it didn't take ALL of them 5 or 6 years to be relevant. Why would it take longer for the Canucks to do a scorched earth or even large rebuild than Ottawa, Montreal, Buffalo (3 rebuild since 2012), Colorado and others? Do they think 5 bad years scares the fans? How can they not be aware that the fans have just gone through 9 years of wandering lost in the forest without a plan and are still loyal?

 

I just don't think they really listen to media types, to them they are just questions for paid show representatives.

 

But questions from the Advocate for the fans would be from the grass roots.

 

An Advocate could express direct opinions of fans to management. We do it all the time in forums and public but they can ignore that and change what is being the cause for frustration into what they want to do and then label it as what fans want.

 

Did you know that the fans just want a playoff game or two and that will be enough?

 

Do they know that when they are saying "It can be turned around in a couple of years" this statement is maybe the 5th or 10th time the fans in this market have heard this?

 

A question could be is why would doing the same thing over again change the outcome?

 

Why can't the team do a rebuild? What stops them?

 

Do they think fans aren't aware of what other teams are doing, how they are improving, why they passed the Canucks in the standings.

 

Inclusion across the board, WHY NOT A FAN ADVOCATE? A grass roots engagement not just season ticket holder meeting once a year unattended by any GM or higher.

 

IMO Allvin and the other 3 GMs aren't talking because their job is to run the team and Rutherford can say whatever because his job isn't to do that, his job was to hire these people to do that job. He can say anything to the media and fans it is only if he says something to those he hired to do the job those words probably start with "your" and end with "fired" and that will only come when there are more empty seats or players start being public about wanting out of this mess. Which IMO is happening now through agents. 

 

Any Advocate cannot be someone that is paid to do it, they can't want to be in the public eye, they should be older and experienced. They can't be small, I mean blame a player for poor performance or hold any player on a pedestal, they have to be a fan of the team not individual players. Players come and go but it is the team that sticks around .

 

The media can ask any question but they can be ignored but fans? Why was it necessary to get any attention by flying a banner, throwing $250 jersey's, wearing paper bags or chanting negativity? Why did it take so long?

 

In the long run ALL them work for fans. If we don't show up they get fired and changes happen.

 

An observation, American fans support winners, no a winner they don't go. Even Seattle was having concerns in their first year because they were not very good. Pittsburgh was bleeding fans even with winning until they lucked out with Malkin and Crosby, Washington until they got Ovechkin, Chicago got Toews and Kane the other thing is they also became winners. In the states if teams start having too many empty seats they get change in different ways than Canada. Even TO, Canada's team was starting to have some trouble ditto with Montreal then change.

 

Those teams did rebuilds and it didn't take a decade. Young players can make an impact immediately Toews and Kane were 21 with a cup, Crosby 20, Malkin 21, Stamkos & Hedman 23, Kucherov 20, Kopiter 22, Doughty 20 all these teams had less than four losing seasons after drafting them, some even became playoff teams earlier so the fallacy of taking "A REAL LONG TIME" is just that, Vancouver had enough time in the fog for two rebuilds and be in a better position now.

 

At any rate why not have a seat at the table? We are supposed to be the most important part of the team.

 

We just have to make sure it isn't a fanatic, blames individual players or has instant gratification expectations. They would need to be able to ask hard questions and be able to follow up with facts.

 

They are so afraid of the true fan opinion they will not even have a polling company do a poll with sensible questions. Even though polls can shape the opinion into what they want but they won't do it. But fans do have a vote, don't buy tickets and that is a powerful vote. If half the fans attending didn't go as a demonstration of the frustration of being taken advantage of what a message, international. It would be something never done before.

 

So inclusion eh! a Fan advocate at some of these pressers to ask questions

frank underwood politics GIF

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1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

The team this year is about inclusion so why not the most important participant?

 

There are advantage to a non paid fan representative, they could ask the really hard questions without worrying about losing their job.

 

The media, some of them, are doing a fairly decent to good job expressing fan angst but to management this might just be part of their schtick to create a following.

 

Rutherford has been pretty open but some of the questions while tough stop short. 

 

Questions about cap space, okay it is tough being capped out but with retention the Canuck existing spent cap space can be shared or lent to another trade partner. This is okay when a team is "building" but not if a team is a WIN NOW group.

 

What is the end goal, the target?, What is the expected window? A one and done cup appearance? Don't specify players but why would their choices be different than the previous 40 years of the same choices? Are they aware that for the most part the best players this team has ever had were selected in the first round of the draft? Linden, Sedins, Bourdon (RIP), Horvat, Pettersson etc... it didn't take ALL of them 5 or 6 years to be relevant. Why would it take longer for the Canucks to do a scorched earth or even large rebuild than Ottawa, Montreal, Buffalo (3 rebuild since 2012), Colorado and others? Do they think 5 bad years scares the fans? How can they not be aware that the fans have just gone through 9 years of wandering lost in the forest without a plan and are still loyal?

 

I just don't think they really listen to media types, to them they are just questions for paid show representatives.

 

But questions from the Advocate for the fans would be from the grass roots.

 

An Advocate could express direct opinions of fans to management. We do it all the time in forums and public but they can ignore that and change what is being the cause for frustration into what they want to do and then label it as what fans want.

 

Did you know that the fans just want a playoff game or two and that will be enough?

 

Do they know that when they are saying "It can be turned around in a couple of years" this statement is maybe the 5th or 10th time the fans in this market have heard this?

 

A question could be is why would doing the same thing over again change the outcome?

 

Why can't the team do a rebuild? What stops them?

 

Do they think fans aren't aware of what other teams are doing, how they are improving, why they passed the Canucks in the standings.

 

Inclusion across the board, WHY NOT A FAN ADVOCATE? A grass roots engagement not just season ticket holder meeting once a year unattended by any GM or higher.

 

IMO Allvin and the other 3 GMs aren't talking because their job is to run the team and Rutherford can say whatever because his job isn't to do that, his job was to hire these people to do that job. He can say anything to the media and fans it is only if he says something to those he hired to do the job those words probably start with "your" and end with "fired" and that will only come when there are more empty seats or players start being public about wanting out of this mess. Which IMO is happening now through agents. 

 

Any Advocate cannot be someone that is paid to do it, they can't want to be in the public eye, they should be older and experienced. They can't be small, I mean blame a player for poor performance or hold any player on a pedestal, they have to be a fan of the team not individual players. Players come and go but it is the team that sticks around .

 

The media can ask any question but they can be ignored but fans? Why was it necessary to get any attention by flying a banner, throwing $250 jersey's, wearing paper bags or chanting negativity? Why did it take so long?

 

In the long run ALL them work for fans. If we don't show up they get fired and changes happen.

 

An observation, American fans support winners, no a winner they don't go. Even Seattle was having concerns in their first year because they were not very good. Pittsburgh was bleeding fans even with winning until they lucked out with Malkin and Crosby, Washington until they got Ovechkin, Chicago got Toews and Kane the other thing is they also became winners. In the states if teams start having too many empty seats they get change in different ways than Canada. Even TO, Canada's team was starting to have some trouble ditto with Montreal then change.

 

Those teams did rebuilds and it didn't take a decade. Young players can make an impact immediately Toews and Kane were 21 with a cup, Crosby 20, Malkin 21, Stamkos & Hedman 23, Kucherov 20, Kopiter 22, Doughty 20 all these teams had less than four losing seasons after drafting them, some even became playoff teams earlier so the fallacy of taking "A REAL LONG TIME" is just that, Vancouver had enough time in the fog for two rebuilds and be in a better position now.

 

At any rate why not have a seat at the table? We are supposed to be the most important part of the team.

 

We just have to make sure it isn't a fanatic, blames individual players or has instant gratification expectations. They would need to be able to ask hard questions and be able to follow up with facts.

 

They are so afraid of the true fan opinion they will not even have a polling company do a poll with sensible questions. Even though polls can shape the opinion into what they want but they won't do it. But fans do have a vote, don't buy tickets and that is a powerful vote. If half the fans attending didn't go as a demonstration of the frustration of being taken advantage of what a message, international. It would be something never done before.

 

So inclusion eh! a Fan advocate at some of these pressers to ask questions

 

ie:  Make ME the fan advocate and I can air MY grievances and suggestions.

 

So many different opinions on CDC alone. It would be impossible to find a rep that would speak for all fans.

 

But just to play along, you could have a lottery or add it to one of the 50/50 draws to pick a random fan who gets to ask one, or maybe a few, questions at some upcoming press conference. There could even be suggestions for questions posted that the lucky fan could choose from, or make up their own.

 

The problem is that it could be anyone. Could be a fan who has the opposite opinion that you do. I'd not be whining about rebuilding for instance.  Its too late for that now IMO.  Or could be just a star struck fan who only asks soft ball questions. And even if the draw lands a more aware and angry fan, its more difficult than you think demanding follow up answers from seasoned managers that know how to answer questions without actually answering them. 

 

The advantage would be that a fan doesn't have to come back the next day, like a local reporter, and foster a relationship with the team and the players, in order to keep them on friendly terms in the future.  coughPatersoncough.  I'd love to see a news clip of one of us p'd off posters being dragged out by their heels yelling loudly about not getting answers and demanding the Aquilini's sell the team!

 

So yes, it would be great, but only if you landed the perfect fan, not intimidated, a good speaker, and who shares all of MY opinions on what questions are the most important.

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3 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

I'm sure the team has staff reading these very forums to get a feel for what the fan base wants. There's a ton of ideas posted all the time by some pretty hard-core and knowledgeable people who probably spend way too much time thinking about hockey. I think finding a single person to represent the fans is a non-starter. But if it had to be someone... it'd be Vintage Canuck. He'd announce trades to the team that they haven't even made yet!

Finding a person would not be hard, many would not want to do it.

 

Posting is not asking to have an answer. 

 

This isn't going to an extreme it isn't getting up there and asking some dumb idiotic question. There are lawyers that are fans, doctors, police, judges, professors, other business men. There even hockey people that have 3 times the experience of some of those GMs' Not everyone is a crack pot or have a hidden agenda.

 

Just hockey questions, nothing else, no special interest group stuff, no war stuff, nothing personal about any hockey personnel. 

 

That would likely eliminate most of those wanting to do it 

 

You know the Canucks own this forum right? You know they have posters here right? They even have a title in the front office. You can't have employees representing fans whoever cannot be worried about losing a job.

 

They, Benning, have also hired a public relations company in the past to put their agenda out there and suppress fan comments. All this stuff about how some companies influenced elections and other things was a business before they did that it was called marketing and selling

 

That is why they will go to the wall to prevent fans having a direct voice.

 

All they want from fans is their loyalty and their money. Fans are like the number of clicks a website gets worth money to advertisers. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

The idea is to be able to follow up on media statements in live time.

How many fans were put on alert with the "fix in two years" comment. To what end? What goal? For how long?

How about the "we will trade for young failures" AGAIN, almost a direct quote from Benning, a big RED FLAG? But not mentioned live on camera.

How about a rebuild takes a really long time? Why wasn't there past rebuilds mentioned for how fast they turned franchises around even if a jusdicial tank for super star players.

How about, Why were there no GMs at the season ticket holders meeting? That was plain disrespect for the fans as not that important.

 

Put them in position to account for some comments, as I posted there the cap. If buyouts are now being contemplated, Miller's contract amount not an issue in a few years, why can't retention be used if willing to throw away money for buyouts, sure there are no guarantees in tanking but then there are not a lot of super stars in the league drafted after the 1rst round, probably 15 to 1 ratios.

 

And yes the attendance but also public expression too. The movie Draft Day kind of showed a bunch of people outside protesting, has that ever happened in real life?

 

I really hope all this chaos is Rutherford managing up, embarrassing the franchise into doing what needs to be done and that there are many big changes in the works. They did fire Rachel because of a supposed leak so they want a tight silent office. That could be why they are also keeping those GMs from the public eye because sometimes a reaction is a telling as talking.

She shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Her reactions AFTER she was fired show someone who is immature. She can't help herself on social media.

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Fans seat at the table of any business is the same 

 

Go or Don't Go .....that's it

 

as long as fans keep buying gand or atattending games we are stuck with the product they are selling to us

 

Stop buying it and they will.change 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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