It Is Time For A Fan Representative To Sit At The Table, Inclusion.

[BCNeil]

9 hours ago, EP Phone Home said:

While I respect your thread of needing a voice to speak for the fans. What used to happen was way back when Gillis was the GM and President there would be a season ticket holder summit called the summer summit. This was a Q & A session for STH’s to ask management questions and concerns about the club. This was all the way up to when Linden was the president but since he left this concept has been abandoned. Unfortunately it leaves a void and no voice for the actual legit paying customers who spend 5-20 thousand a year for season tickets and merch. While I agree there needs to be an outlet for the fans who have been long time contributors to helping this club be a highly valuable franchise.
 

 

I remember the summer summit.  It was a good idea, but poorly executed.  All the questions were from pre-selected fans.  Softballs.

They had a 6 year old boy with his mommy come up first.  He asked Trevor what it was like to play with Bure.  Both players were long retired before this kid was even born.

Then the next fan suggests cheaper beer, to cheers from the crowd.  

 

Complete waste of time.  

Edited January 21, 2023 by BCNeil

[DrJockitch]

Everyone thinks they know more than the professionals, they rarely do. 
‘This is based on the most basic fallacy about sports fandoms that fans of a team speak with a single voice and one fans opinion matches everyone else’s. We do it all the time here when we talk about other teams fans. 
‘We don’t have one voice, we have a variety of assorted bad opinions. 
‘Last thing a club needs is a yahoo off the streets stinking up the place with there latest opinion or conspiracy theory about the refs or the draft lottery. 

[Strawbone]

1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

I listed a number of statements I thought could be expanded on, I am pretty sure a lot of fans have those questions and none were attacks on people.

 

There are lots of things that can be asked that are general enough to cover hockey, only hockey related questions, no personal attacks, no putting the blame on individual players, coaches or others. No asking about special interest groups like "Why are you supporting the Poor Puppy Group" , Leaving all that stuff outside of direct hockey related questions, about the game on the ice, within the confines of a bubble.

 

The questions would be screened like a lot are already, not censored but screened to make sure they are not personal attacks or agenda's. They might even be able to handed off to another media person to ask to insure that happened BUT the fan representative is present for follow up.

 

Ya that is a fear that some fan would confirm that Vancouver fans are idiots but I would publicize that persons name across the country and hopefully the international media would descend upon them due to the notoriety they gained

 

There hundreds of fans that be calm, cool and collected. There even a few on this forum who have posted for years that have a steady position.

 

Two extremes from this forum, Deb cannot be one for a couple of reasons but one is "the team is great" even in the 8 year of losing and all the players or Deb's favourites are the best in the league, she is there for participation not elimination and one game.

 

Alf used to be pretty steady but has got a little more opinionated lately pointing at players and posters.

 

Going by the replies in this thread

Stawns has no confidence in himself

Salacious Crumb has an agenda or grudge

Coconuts just wants attention, no content in this thread

Strawbone seems close

tas comes across as having feeling of inferiority

Shayaster007 comes across like there is caste system

KyGuy123 seem to be half way to giving up

 

And of course yourself, you gave out a thought out answer with attention to worrying about good representation of the fans and types of questions

 

Entitlement, what is entitlement exactly? Is that when a product is sold you and it breaks? Someone fools you and steals your money? Makes plans to make you think the tide is in already when selling beach front property? 

Damn rights it is entitlement, they want money so we are entitled to know what they want it for or what they will give us in return. Even Burke came out with pay up or move and pay up so we can pay player more. That set the entitlement decades ago.

We bought a Ferrari and got a Volkswagon instead of the promised car. Entitled for an explanation?

Where on earth did fans ever get the idea they were not entitled to something as simple as truth?

I'm close?! Awwww glad you think so 

 

I wouldn't want the job, because I just don't have the background and knowledge, and wouldn't want to presume I could ever be a voice for all Canucks fans. I don't have any concrete solutions for getting the Canucks back to being a contender, but what I would tell the team is to do something big and bold, and stop tinkering. Don't be scared of disappointing fans, don't let the owner meddle, and don't be afraid to ship out aging fan favorites to assemble a new young team. What kind of team? I don't really know, but pick a direction and go with it. A big team, a fast team, a character team, a high skill team, a euro-focused team, a good-old-Canadian team, a defensive team, an offensive team, a strong forechecking team, a team that tries never-before-seen trick plays... I don't know what's the best mix to win a Stanley Cup, but come up with a plan and spend a few years executing it. Fans can handle (and would probably welcome!) a couple more years of pain to make real progress. We're living through a pretty dark time for the team right now regardless, might as well do it with some purpose.

 

Now does that message resonate with every fan? Some I'm sure. Would that be useful advice for management? I doubt it!

[Toews]

4 minutes ago, Gurn said:

My vote for  fan rep is cast for  @SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME.

He would have my vote as well, knowledgeable, objective, and doesn't get emotional when challenged. If I were to face the owner I would tell him to stop lying about wanting to win a Cup and sell the team. There would definitely be some pejoratives and curse words thrown in there as well. The owner wouldn't give a crap, he'd have me thrown out of the building and laugh all the way to the bank lol.

[Ghostsof1915]

TTTT just so you know you are losing in your own poll

If you combine yes with about time you get around 15% lets be generous and say 16%

There's over 54% saying no.

And 30% saying why bother. 

 

[ToTellTheTruth]

1 hour ago, BCNeil said:

Who gets to represent the fans?  Let me take a guess....you?

I never even voted and am not an attention wh**** But I at least know hockey and hockey operations

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

28 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Fan walking out of first meeting....

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness though... NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those two and there opinions eh? Not even original thinkers, certainly never want them in any conversation.

25 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

It should be noted, that No ONE on this board, ME included, are qualified to sit in those meetings. Sports writers aren't qualified to sit in those meetings.... 

Do you pray to the gods :D 

7 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Everyone thinks they know more than the professionals, they rarely do. 
‘This is based on the most basic fallacy about sports fandoms that fans of a team speak with a single voice and one fans opinion matches everyone else’s. We do it all the time here when we talk about other teams fans. 
‘We don’t have one voice, we have a variety of assorted bad opinions. 
‘Last thing a club needs is a yahoo off the streets stinking up the place with there latest opinion or conspiracy theory about the refs or the draft lottery. 

What on earth makes you think we are not professionals or haven't been?

 

And yes I agree it can't be a yahoo that wants to launder his dirty laundry.

 

But I didn't post that would be a subject, I even limited the topics to be discussed and how.

 

Like in life there are the left or the right that use extremes to make a case. That is why any questions could be put through an intermediary for screening but with a fan presence there so the person stating the question would not put their job in jeopardy.

 

If I asked one question, What is the end goal and how long and how to get there? Of course it would have to be structured differently to get a real answer in more detail but the question itself in pertinent.

 

Or

 

Why do you think the fans in this market demand instant gratification when the call to arms is a rebuild while knowing it takes time? At least as much as other teams.

 

How many fans am I upsetting or embarrassing? A fan asking those questions is different than the media asking for a sound bite. 

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

How on earth could a single person represent an entire fan base in a supportive manner? It's not realistic or even logical.

 

Just look at the arguments here. At the very best, it would be a representation of a small subset, and that's on a single topic. The same group(s) aren't going to agree on all different topics.

 

And then what, does it turn into a government-style election with different parties campaigning their choice for an individual?

 

Where does the money come from? And when does the representative start siding with the franchise to get kickbacks? Or making a decision to hold onto their seat?

Edited January 20, 2023 by Drive-By Body Pierce

[EP Phone Home]

23 minutes ago, BCNeil said:

I remember the summer summit.  It was a good idea, but poorly executed.  All the questions were from pre-selected fans.  Softballs.

They had a 6 year old boy with him mommy come up first.  He asked Trevor what it was like to play with Bure.  Both players were long retired before this kid was even born.

Then the next fan suggests cheaper beer, to cheers from the crowd.  

 

Complete waste of time.  

You are correct with the softball questions being asked at those events. It sometimes felt like the questions were already prepared by PR which doesn’t answer all the questions that STH’s truly want to ask. That said same could be said for the media asking softball questions to management, it’s all somewhat filtered regardless to keep things civil. While it’s not the perfect system to voice public opinions on, it was more then what we have had in the last 5 years. 
 

I recall that beer price question, good times

[ToTellTheTruth]

32 minutes ago, Strawbone said:

I'm close?! Awwww glad you think so 

 

I wouldn't want the job, because I just don't have the background and knowledge, and wouldn't want to presume I could ever be a voice for all Canucks fans. I don't have any concrete solutions for getting the Canucks back to being a contender, but what I would tell the team is to do something big and bold, and stop tinkering. Don't be scared of disappointing fans, don't let the owner meddle, and don't be afraid to ship out aging fan favorites to assemble a new young team. What kind of team? I don't really know, but pick a direction and go with it. A big team, a fast team, a character team, a high skill team, a euro-focused team, a good-old-Canadian team, a defensive team, an offensive team, a strong forechecking team, a team that tries never-before-seen trick plays... I don't know what's the best mix to win a Stanley Cup, but come up with a plan and spend a few years executing it. Fans can handle (and would probably welcome!) a couple more years of pain to make real progress. We're living through a pretty dark time for the team right now regardless, might as well do it with some purpose.

 

Now does that message resonate with every fan? Some I'm sure. Would that be useful advice for management? I doubt it!

Again a good reason in a potential candidate, but having more knowledge would be helpful but don't sell yourself short, think it through about why it is hard to do their jobs?

 

Cap management is greatly helped using the same data they use provided by Cap Friendly

Contracts are for the most part now included in the CBA but if not that is why the team has lawyers

The team hires marketing people

No need to pick the menu at the pub.

Ticketmaster sells tickets

Accountants do the books

Comptrollers the day to day money stuff, cheques payroll

Security guys hired to secure venue

There is more but it is not rocket science nor is micromanaging required.

A GM on a junior team does much of the same as these guys, even Minor Hockey associations have many of the same requirements. The NHL like those associations is a non profit society

 

Again the questions to be asked don't go that deep with this team yet.

The team is at the building or rebuilding stage without an apparent time line or plan.

 

If I did ask about size it might be after the stated plan was to get X number of draft picks or Use Cap space to enhance trade returns or how to get cap space or why it is okay to throw money away in a buyout instead of spending less in time and money through retention.

 

There are loads of questions about "Structure" which is a plan.

 

Just the simple getting the message of the fans will be tolerant if they rebuild would be an achievement because as far as I know not one fan has told any management level that face to face and so it can and is ignored

Edited January 20, 2023 by ToTellTheTruth

[komodo0921]

5 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

You have impact. 

- Don't go to games.

- Don't buy merchanidize.

- Listen on Radio/Internet instead of watch on TV.

 

Less revenue will send a message the fans are unhappy. 

The problem is Ownership/Management aren't doing what they should in building a better team. 

They should care less about playoff revenue and look for long term success that means the team can compete for the Cup for years to come.

 

This is the biggest voice we have, as fans.

Hit them in the wallet.

It's the only thing they understand.

[rychicken]

3 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

Again the question don't go that deep with this team yet.

The team is at the building or rebuilding stage without an apparent time line or plan.

 

If I did ask about size it might be after the stated plan was to get X number of draft picks or Use Cap space to enhance trade returns or how to get cap space or why it is okay to throw mney away in a buyout instead of spending less in time and money through retention.

 

There are loads of questions about "Structure" which is a plan.

 

Just the simple getting the message of the fans will be tolerant if they rebuild

Would you ever consider that maybe you are not 100% right on this topic, or portions thereof?

[ToTellTheTruth]

11 minutes ago, rychicken said:

Would you ever consider that maybe you are not 100% right on this topic, or portions thereof?

What, by asking for inclusion?

 

How can I be right about all this topic but I can do something management of this team doesn't do, respond.

 

In some answers I am trying to filter out the extremes being added or attempts to belittle fans overall. I do think fan are intelligent enough to think it through.

 

Fan have to realize they ARE the most important PART of the team. Without them as pointed out why is there a team at all?

 

They do IMHO deserve some modicum of respect from those selling and not just talk for the sake of talk. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by ToTellTheTruth

[PhillipBlunt]

It's never going to happen, but if it actually did, it would still be nothing more than a token appeasement and would more than likely be phased out quite quickly. The far more powerful statement is not showing up to games, cancelling season ticket subscriptions, cancelling television subscriptions.

 

The lack of fans at games speaks far louder and far larger, than sitting at a table with a bunch of yahoos who couldn't (expletive deleted) their way out of a paper bag.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

I never even voted and am not an attention wh**** But I at least know hockey and hockey operations

 

Those two and there opinions eh? Not even original thinkers, certainly never want them in any conversation.

Do you pray to the gods :D 

What on earth makes you think we are not professionals or haven't been?

 

And yes I agree it can't be a yahoo that wants to launder his dirty laundry.

 

But I didn't post that would be a subject, I even limited the topics to be discussed and how.

 

Like in life there are the left or the right that use extremes to make a case. That is why any questions could be put through an intermediary for screening but with a fan presence there so the person stating the question would not put their job in jeopardy.

 

If I asked one question, What is the end goal and how long and how to get there? Of course it would have to be structured differently to get a real answer in more detail but the question itself in pertinent.

 

Or

 

Why do you think the fans in this market demand instant gratification when the call to arms is a rebuild while knowing it takes time? At least as much as other teams.

 

How many fans am I upsetting or embarrassing? A fan asking those questions is different than the media asking for a sound bite. 

[The Arrogant Worms]

3 hours ago, Gurn said:

Well done, Keep it up.

It does get easier; not a lot easier, but  a bit easier none the less.

One Day At A Time!.

It's not a problem at all. 

 

I just decided to quit and go back to the gym for the 1st time since Covid hit.  In 6 months I have lost 40 pounds and all my blood work is perfect now.  Cholesterol is great which pisses off my wife because I eat worse than her and she has naturally high cholesterol lol.

 

  I feel better than I have in 15 years and can lift as much weight at 64 as I did at 50 which is kind of unusual as you are supposed to lose strength a little as you get older.

[Westcoasting]

14 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

It's not a problem at all. 

 

I just decided to quit and go back to the gym for the 1st time since Covid hit.  In 6 months I have lost 40 pounds and all my blood work is perfect now.  Cholesterol is great which pisses off my wife because I eat worse than her and she has naturally high cholesterol lol.

 

  I feel better than I have in 15 years and can lift as much weight at 64 as I did at 50 which is kind of unusual as you are supposed to lose strength a little as you get older.

Nice work  

[McBackup]

This fanbase can’t even agree on a logo or goal song. There is no way someone can be a genuine “representative” of it.

[Jack Fig]

7 hours ago, rychicken said:

I voted no, but if I had to nominate or support someone I would vote for John Garrett - he's a big fan and if he didn't like an answer he could fart

 

 

Actually, I'd vote for @Jack Fig

Thanks for the vote of confidence, chicken. But I'm not close to being the right type of person for any such undertaking for one very basic reason ...... I simply don't care that much. 

[ToTellTheTruth]

Extremes again.

 

Thinking like the Canucks want you to think, you're not good enough, you can never want the same thing, nobody is ever going to have enough intelligence, they are a better humans than the mushrooms, running a team is like launching a rocket, stay in your place you don't pay for result and are not entitled to explanations just pay some more.

 

Can't agree, what a laffer. Just look at this thread, there is enough agreement either way to be able to have SOME unity. I haven't eve looked at the results of the poll and yo folks didn't even realize that I formed your thoughts with the questions, I told you what to think or what to like or dislike.

 

30% have given up, 53% think they should shut up and quit talking about the team, 12.5% think they would like to know what their money is spent on and for what and a mere 16% believe in themselves enough to want to ask questions and get answers. Now there is more than good chance that many of the 53% are "company" surfers on this forum because on 3 other forums the numbers are opposite this one.

 

In most Canadian markets they would like to have a say and believe in themselves only Vancouver CDD do they advocate for burying their heads in the sand and open their wallets. 

 

Polls and questions like this thread are not even necessary in other markets because the fans are treated like the valuable parts of the team they are without taking them for granted. Team actually want to know what fans are thinking and feeling.

 

Now this franchise fan base showed a little class and respect for Boudreau during a game, 53% of this group would rather say and do nothing.

 

Fans have an extreme amount of power if they can act in unison. There are some things that just can't be questioned and if some are too small minded to realize that then are they fans at all? Or just people that pay to waste time watching a team and game they don't care about?

 

Asking for 100% consensus and some of the ideas for questions are extreme and show a lack of wisdom. That can hardly ever happen. 

 

You can please all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but you can't please all the people all the time.

 

I suppose reducing ticket prices would be insulting to some on this thread or be another can't have everyone wanting to save money

 

 

 

[BlastPast]

Ok OP, if you were GM, what are your first 5-10 objectives for this team and how do you plan to accomplish them? I'll extend that query to anyone. Let's hear your first ten steps.